Mosin M91 worn barrel

[mosin9130]

I have a M91 with an ugly barrel.
More exactly, the bore has strong rifling but is like a black hole.
I've tried to clean it scrubbing with steel wool on a bronze brush, next with Ed's Red and with Birchwood's Bore Scrubber and again with Ed's Red and Bore Scrubber.
Nothing. I've only worn the bronze brush.
The bore is still dark and every patch passed exits worn, a bit dirt and leave in it a lot of fluf. :(
What to do?
I have two other M91 to shot with and I could keep that one for collection purpose only but would like to hear its voice again....

[twotoescharlie]

shoot enough of the cheap steel jacket surplus through it to get the barrel smokin' hot and then put the ed's red to it and scrub it hard , might have to do it a couple of times. the trick is to get the barrel really hot. this works for myself, but nothing will replace pitted metal.

TTC

[Bret4207]

If it's showing "dirt" that could be fouling/rust/powder residue. Do you have access to someone with an Outers Foul Out? That might help. Beyond that I'd plug the muzzle and fill the barrel with your solvent of choice. Leave it overnight and repeat till you see daylight. The steel wool works for me, some guys like Chore Boy copper scrubbers. I think soaking and elbow grease are the answer.

[Buckshot]

...............You've probably already cleaned it well, and as well as it probably needs to be. If it has strong rifling I'd suggest you just try it. If you want to shoot cast the best slug would be a Loverin. However fat 30 cal Loverins are non-existant, so use what'cha got. If you wanted to shoot jacketed then just go ahead and see what happens.

The cast results may supprise you. I have a 1895 Chilean Mauser with a really worn barrel. The bore is just a shiney rounded spiral in the barrel. The grooves are darkish. It will shoot the Lyman 150gr 7mm Loverin to about 1600 fps but more then that and groups just get larger and larger.

When I clean it afterwards the first patch through the barrel pushes out this big black glob of what must be boolit lube that builds up in the pits and craters :-).

.................Buckshot

[walltube]

I have a M91 with an ugly barrel.
More exactly, the bore has strong rifling but is like a black hole.
I've tried to clean it scrubbing with steel wool on a bronze brush, next with Ed's Red and with Birchwood's Bore Scrubber and again with Ed's Red and Bore Scrubber.
Nothing. I've only worn the bronze brush.
The bore is still dark and every patch passed exits worn, a bit dirt and leave in it a lot of fluf. :(
What to do?
I have two other M91 to shot with and I could keep that one for collection purpose only but would like to hear its voice again....

mosin,

Outers Foul Out, IME, does an excellent job removing copper & lead fouling from an abused & neglected bore. But not the 'nickle' of cupro\nickle guilding. Be patient and follow the included intructions.

However, be prepared for a fit of anguish because this tool will remove ALL the copper fouling from ALL the pits, potholes and ravines hiding under the layers of old guilding metal. On the other hand you may be quite pleased with what you find.

I've just taken delivery of my O.F.O. Mk. 3 from Midway to replace the Mk.2. Much better performance.

Cheers From south America,

W'tube

[swheeler]

M9130; If you are talking cast boolits, try it- you might like it! I have an 1891 Arg that had a terrble looking bore, several xspurts looked down it and told me it was useless, would never shoot worth a hoot! I loaded up some cast and found a load that was accurate, now after several thousand rounds of cast boolits thru it, the same xspurts look down it and say what a nice looking barrel- MIRROR BRIGHT. Them thar cast boolits sure make a good barrel lap. Let the rifle do the talking, enjoy your comrade.

[azrednek]

Years ago when Spanish 98 Mausers hit the market, most had dark bores but stong rifleing. My friends and I used Dupont automotive polish (not wax, not rubbing compound) to initially clean the bores. Then we would take them and shoot hundreds of surplus rounds through them. The more we shot the brighter the bores. Although the bores became brighter the medicore shot to shot accuracy stayed the same.

I suspect the ammonia and the very mild abraisive in the polish helped clean the years of stored gunk in the bores but continous shooting through the hot barrel seemed to brighten it better than anything else we tried.

[mosin9130]

Thanks all!
Unfortunately, here in Italy the products for firearms are mostly imported from USA, are very expensive and are few. Common products have different trade marks (just recently I discovered that 'Kroil' have the italian equivalent on 'Svitol'...) and also the very useful home made recipes acquire incertitude during translation from english to italian of the substances used (there is difference between vaseline and petroleum jelly?).
So, I don't know what is 'Outers Foul Out' but I suspect that is an electro-chemical device, not imported in Italy.
So, as said by Buckshot and Sweeler, I'll shot my M91 to see what happens.
Cast boolits, of course! 311284 or 323470 sized down to .315 (my rifle has a large bore), ww water quenched.
What 's the better load for this job? A light load of fast burning powder (I mean 12 or 13 grs of red dot ), a medium load of medium powder (16 - 18 grs of 2400 or N110), a half-full load (30 - 34 grs of N135) or an 'heavy' load of slow powder (37 - 40 grs of W760 or more of N160)?

[Buckshot]

..............mosin9130, I'd suggest a load that wasn't too speedy. I really don't know about pressure wise, but 13.0grs of Red Dot is up there a ways. If you do have some Red Dot, since you're experimenting start with 10.0grs and then go up to 13.0 to see what happens.

BTW, you can make your own electrical 'Foul Out" using just odds and ends like a stainless rod, some rubber stoppers or 'O" rings, and a low voltage power supply. I know I've seen plans around on the web for them.

If English (or American :-) is your 2nd language, you could have fooled me. You have it hammered my friend!

...............Buckshot

[9.3X62AL]

No argument with anything posted above.

I have a couple rifles with pretty nasty bore conditions, and didn't expect much from them for this reason. Neither one will do benchrest quality shooting, but both do show useful hunting accuracy after cleaning and confirmation of actual groove and throat diameters.

[walltube]

mosin9130,



Here is a link that may help you construct an electrochemical metallic fouling removal tool as Buckshot suggests: Surplusrifle.com

This link also features some helpful articles on the Mosin rifles that may be of interest to you.

MidwayUSA.com is a mail order house here in the USA that has in stock the Outers Foul Out Mk.lll electrochemical tool. These folks ship to Europe.

Yours Truly,

Harold Leaming aka Walltube

[walltube]

mosin9130,

Seems as though this Gateway is intent on being a bit recalcitrant today and refuses to obey the "create a link" function. Sorry about that. I know it can't possibly be me! :coffeecom

A word of caution with the aforementioned 'homemade' electrochemical tool, these devices bear close watching while in operation. The commercially available types are equipped with micro circuits that will stop operating and warn the owner that cleaning is complete or something is amiss.

Good luck to you.

Y.T.,

W'tube

[mosin9130]

Thanks all, friends!
Unfortunately, what I really need is more free time! The rifle range is 40 km away and I cannot go there to shoot and test my experiments as soon as I would. Many military rifles of my collection lie unfired from long time in a corner (handguns are more luck because there is near a pistol range opened also in the evening twice a week) but I hope to load and shoot the boolits for my M91 during this weekend and in a near future to make my 'Foul Out' (thanks Buckshot, thanks Walltube).
I'll keep you informed on the results.

When I'll be retired I'll have the time to carry on my many, many projects but for now... I'm 38 years old and have to manage at best my few free time.

Bucksoht: yes, English is my 2nd language but despite what you say, I'm feel like an ass and am sure that you'll change your mind if you ever hear me talk!

[mosin9130]

To clean the barrel of my M91, after the counsels of the friends on the list, firstly I attempted to shoot some round (cast boolits, of course) on it. 'Attempted' is the right word because, having not had the time to reload some round expressly for it and being the local store out of surplus ammo in this caliber, I've grabbed the firs box of round found around and reloaded for my M39 but, at the range (40 km away from my home), the rounds didn't chamber! :(
The neck of the chamber of my Tula M91 is tight as that of my Sig M91 and the boolits used on M39, sized to .314, simply don't enter... [smilie=1:

Next, having had the time to buy a steel rod, I've built up my 'Foul Out' (very simple, indeed) and after two successive applications of an hour each, finally the bore of my rifle shows some shining! :mrgreen:

To be totally clean, maybe the barrel require another touch of 'Foul Out' or two but I fear to exaggerate and ruin the bore (that, under the dirt, seems to be not bad).
So, I'll shoot some boolit on it (the right size, this time) to see what appens.

[junkbug]

Mosin9130;

I have made one of these myself and it works well for copper fouling. All hardware store items. By the way Vasoline is a famous brand name for petroleum jelly.

http://www.surplusrifle.com/reviews/copperout/index.asp

Hope this helps.

Good luck in beautiful Italia.

Sean

[Nelsdou44]

Encouragement for Mosin.

I have an Israeli mauser in 7.62 that has a sewer pipe for a barrel. Didn't look bad when I bought it, but after extensive cleaning (like you) it was bad, bad, bad. The 30 cal. jag and patch on the cleaning rod kinda bounce along now when you push it down the bore. After trying this and that (including a new crown) I ordered a replacement military barrel and almost made my mind to go ahead and twist off that barrel, when I thought what the heck, why not try a fatter boolit?

Loaded up some .311 170 grain boolits over 19-23 grains of 5744 and at the range, half-heartedly cut loose at 100yds using the hard-to-see mauser 600meter sight setting. Figured this was the last hurrah for that barrel.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v24/BubbaChevy/IsraeliMauserTarget7.jpg

This is better than I normally shoot with opens sights with most milsurps!

Funny thing, 20 to 23 grains of 5744 all seem to shoot good, not much difference among them.

Nels

[mosin9130]

Thanks you, Nels.
ASAP, I'll clean again my M91 with homemade foul-out and try to shot some boolits.