Lee Anxiety

[pjh421]

OK, I have been working so hard the last 10 years that I haven't done much casting, well not like I used to. I started swaging in the meantime, but after reading David R's review of Bullshop's bullplate lube I'm getting interested again. I called Midway today & ordered a pair of Lee 6 cav handles to fit to my H&G 51 and Lyman 357446 four cavity moulds.

I was teetering on the brink of ordering the Lee 6 cavity mould for a 300gr .430" bullet (excuse me, I meant boolit...) but didn't after pondering my experience with a certain brand new Lee 6 cav 125gr 9mm mould around '94.

This son of a gun would not cast a single good bullet. I filed, cleaned, de-greased & lubed this mould like it was one of my favorites but it was a dog. To pre-heat moulds I put them on a side burner. I used a casting pyrometer. I fluxed. I smoked the mould cavities. I started at a low temp & gradually increased the heat of the alloy, looking for the "sweet spot". I casted faster. I casted slower. I cooled the blocks with an electric fan. Still, bad castings. They would not fill out. I even took a chunk of pure tin and dipped it into the pot (Pro Melt) from time to time to see what a bit more tin would do. Eventually the alloy temp was somewhere over 800 degrees. This warped the thin, steel sprue cutter & it was never the same. Not that it was any more useless after that...

I can cast beautifully uniform, well filled out, sharp looking bullets with my steel moulds all day long. Has anyone else had a similar experience? I see glowing reports all the time here from guys who must have 30 or 40 Lee moulds.

Are they still using that same design of sprue cutter?

Paul

[VTDW]

pjh421 Jeeze!!

I joined in on the RD Lee 6-cavity mould that was supposed to drop .432 or greater. Lee sent me two moulds that did not live up to that. Thankfully, a member of MarlinOwners that had ordered 4 of these sent me one free of charge and it does well. I had to take the original and open it up to cast at least .432. Lee is not for me as far as moulds go. On the sprue plate/cutter, I have no clue.

Dave

[sundog]

No problemo with either the group buys or production run 6 bangers. I have more than a few of each. They all cast. As to demensions of group buys, they only get close to spec, but just about all are useable. sundog

[Steelbanger]

I don't know about the older sprue cutters either but the newer moulds have thick aluminum sprue plates. I was skeptical when I got my first 6 banger but they work quite well. I believe that the 1 & 2 cavity Lee moulds use steel sprue plates.

[Bret4207]

Never had too much problems with Lees. Maybe you had a "dog". For the price you can buy it, try it and sell it here if it doesn't work out for most of what it cost you.

[mooman76]

Those Lee 6 bangers take allot of heat to get going. They are nothing like the smaller double and single moulds. You said you heated up slowly. You want to do the reverse. Get it hot as fast as you can and then if it starts to get too hot start turning it down. You will probubly have a lot more bad bullets starting out than normal but keep going and make sure you have everything ready because the last thing you want is to just get bullets to turn out and you run out of hot lead. You also need a good big pot since it will go through allot of lead! One thing I do to help heat it up is pour hot lead over the mould even after the cavities are filled to heat up the entire mould.

[Buckshot]

...........I guess I have about 9 Lee 6 cavity moulds. The only one with issues is a 45 cal TC design where the blocks are a thou offset of each other. Doesn't seem to have much affect on accuracy but it's not 'right'.

The sprueplates are anodized aluminum and work VERY well. BTW, if you have a problem with a Lee mould, send it back to them.

.............Buckshot

[Uncle R.]

I gave up on Lee moulds many years ago. I ain't sayin' they won't make good bullets - maybe they do for some but I never could make 'em work. I cleaned, and smoked, and experimented with pot temperatures, block temperatures and alloys 'till I was ready to pull my hair out. For all practical purposes they weren't vented - and that's how they worked for me. Short fat bullets like 38 SWCs would fill fairly well. I'm convinced they were venting right back through the sprue hole. Long skinny rifle bullets simply WOULD NOT fill. I had a 7mm mould that I worked with for many sessions over several weeks and NEVER got a single nose to fill out. In a final fit of rage I "adjusted" it with a 20 oz. ball pein hammer. Stupid, yeah - but it sure felt good. :roll:
I did use a Lee mould to cast thousands of 38 revolver bullets. They shot okay for 50 ft. bullseye but when I tried them at silhouettes at 200 meters I couldn't keep 'em within ten feet of a ram except by luck. I started weighing them and found they were all over the map. Even though they LOOKED OK they weren't properly filled out. Switched to RCBS moulds and got uniform, accurate bullets that shot as good as or better than J-word bullets. Didn't touch the Lee moulds again for many years.
When I stumbled across a Lee .38 HP mould NIB for a giveaway price years later I couldn't resist. I liked the automatic core pin and I'd been wanting to try to duplicate the old Nyclad "FBI" load. I wanted fast expansion so I tried to cast them from essentially pure lead. Of course, no matter what I did I couldn't make that nose fill out. I use a propane torch to pre-heat my blocks. (Yeah - it works fine if you're careful!) I had the pot at 800 degrees and kept getting the blocks hotter and hotter until it took ONE FULL MINUTE by my watch for the sprue to harden - and when I openend the blocks I STILL had half a nose on the bullet. At this point I was more curious than frustrated - in the name of science I kept going hotter and hotter until I finally ruined the blocks - and never got a decent bullet. Of course, I viewed the loss of those blocks as not worthy of mourning.
All of my Lee experience is with moulds from twenty years or more ago - so maybe the new ones are better. The thing is, I'm in no hurry to find out. I may be an old-fashioned dinosaur, but I'm doing just fine without Lee moulds.

[Bret4207]

Someone here mentioned tapping the block as he poured to make sure things got filled. Just a thought.

[AnthonyB]

This is the exact predicament I'm having with my original run 358-180 FN mold. I've tried every trick I know and put the thing into time-out just before I bought another one from a poster that reported easy casting with his mold. I have at least three posters who asked to buy the offending mold when I get back home. That mold has kept me out of two group buys I really liked since. Tony

[rbstern]

I've got half a dozen Lee molds, including a couple of the six bangers. Each one works well. I have an easier time casting with them than I do with iron molds from other makers.

[Uncle R.]

I've got half a dozen Lee molds, including a couple of the six bangers. Each one works well. I have an easier time casting with them than I do with iron molds from other makers.

I can't argue with that - obviously Lee moulds (or at least some of them) work for a lot of people and it's entirely possible that I just haven't figured them out - or maybe they're better than the ones I bought years ago, or maybe I'm just doing something wrong.
When I first started casting almost thirty years ago (Cheez, can it be that long?) I was a young man and I started with Lee moulds 'cause they were cheap and money wasn't easy to come by. I struggled mightily through all of the usual beginner's problems until I ran into a grizzled old "Brother of the silver stream" named Hank. Hank was kind enough to answer my many questions - even invited me to his home to see his setup and technique. When he discovered I was using Lee moulds he counseled me (Strongly!) to get some RCBS or Lyman blocks. It took a while before I gave up - I WANTED those Lee moulds to work for me 'cause I liked the price.
I now have dozens of blocks in RCBS, Lyman and even a couple of old H&Gs I picked up along the way. (Gawd - Those H&Gs are sweet!) Some are eager to please, some temperamental and cranky, but all of them are much easier to use (For me anyway) than my old Lees.
Now you've got me thinkin' about it - maybe I'll pick up a NEW Lee mould just to try it again and see if they're different from the OLD ones...
:roll:

[pjh421]

Has anyone who owns an LBT mould had difficulty casting with it? I’ve never heard anything bad about LBT moulds, even though they are aluminum, which leads me to suspect that the problem is my technique more than the equipment. Veral Smith has such excellent boolit form designs.

Another aspect of my experimentation in trying to get that old Lee mould to work was what my mentor called “head pressure”. My H&G moulds like a good amount of stand-off distance between the tip of the Pro Melt spout and the sprue cutter. The stream gets a little more velocity and maybe a little improved venting through the fill hole. I know, I know. Fill hole venting bad, block vent line venting good.

However, since H&G’s have a “trough” on top of the sprue cutter the casting continues to “feed” from this molten pool as necessary after you shut off the stream. I think this makes a good bit of difference in the quality of the castings. Conversely, I had a Lyman 35895 two cavity that cast nice little 148 grain bevel-base wadcutters. It preferred having the spout stuck into the sprue plate fill hole. Getting a puddle going on that thin, little sprue plate would invariably warp it and we all know what that does to bullet bases. If you are going to achieve any sort of “production” rate, you can’t waste time sticking the spout into each cavity.

I gave that mould to a friend who was getting started after I lucked on to a 10 cavity H&G that made a similar casting for the astoundingly low price of $95. Wow, does that mould ever crank out the boolits. I can’t wait to get some of Bullshop’s bull plate lube on that one.

Buckshot,

Are you getting mould parting lines on your castings? The block mis-alignment doesn’t sound like much. I have re-habbed moulds by putting a non-imbedding abrasive paste on a drilled & tapped casting from the offending cavity. You put a screw into the bullet base and chuck it into a drill, close the blocks around the casting and go to town. It makes the cavity so smooth that the bullets just drop out from their own weight (once the mould is squeaky clean again).

Uncle R.,

I have a .44 swage die from Dave Corbin that uses pure lead wire and a conical “base guard” made of .030” brass sheet. When swaged the base guard flattens & a lead rivet extrudes through its hole to attach the two pieces. This is really more appropriate for semi-autos than revolvers due to alignment issues but you essentially wind up with a pure lead, Keith-type hollow point swc (minus the lube and crimp grooves) that is perfectly filled out with a very tiny weight variation. I want to do some more experimenting with this one and some moly coating. Casting without tin seems like a tough proposition.

Steelbanger,

Maybe the fact that they now use aluminum sprue plates as opposed to steel ones will let the sprue plate expand & contract at a rate more similar to the aluminum blocks.

Mooman76,

When I pre-heat mould blocks I always use an electric side burner. Its so convenient (and safer than standing them on top of your pot) I can’t imagine doing it any other way. This will get your mould blocks as hot as you want. I never measured mould block temps but I guess they are ideally slightly cooler than the alloy.

Gotta go now. I really appreciate hearing everyone’s comments. Thanks.

Paul

[DonH]

Every mould has it's own set of quirks. I have had no trouble with getting Lee moulds to cast good bullets ( as in filling out, etc). One just has to keep things in perspective. If a perfect fit is desired buy a custom mould instead of an inexpensive Lee. For a producction mould Lee is probably as close as anyone 'cept maybe Hoch. They are certainly as close, or closer, than many Lymans. As to lack of venting, one of my custom moulds (220 gr .32-40) is not vented and works superbly.

[Bret4207]

I mentioned in a post last year that I have taken to making brief notes about my moulds and what it takes to make them work. I have a Lyman 358156 that demands sprue plate to dipper contact, a Lyman 358429 that wants about 1" of pour drop, a 311316 that doesn't care one way or the other. With my 1lb Rowell ladle and a dutch oven full of hot lead I can turn out hundreds of Lee GB Bator 358x250's, H+G 38 Wadcutters, Lee 358 x 180FN, Lee 8mm Karibiners, etc- all at least 6 bangers and they take it any way you can get the pour into the cavity, as long as the mix is a little hotter than with the little dippers.

Each mould is a law unto itself. Those using bottom pour pots (tools of satan!) may have a few less options than us dipper men ( the carriers of the True Faith) but if you note what works and what doesn't and WRITE IT DOWN you can figure the tricks out.

Maybe guys with 1 or 2 moulds don't hahve these issues, but once you get over 4 or 20 it helps to keep notes. 'Specially when the ol'memory gets a little hazy....

[GLL]

I have a couple of the newer GB's that have been exceptional moulds BUT my very first was a mess. Willbird designed and honchoed a great 454-275RF that Lee butchered. The originals were not to spec and when Lee "reworked" them the nose had great chunks of aluminum gouged out. I loved the design but the quality of the machining was something right out of a junior high school metalworking class ! I am still trying to clean up that mould ! :( :(

Jerry

[pjh421]

Tpr. Bret,

I have often considered the Rowell ladles. They are an excellent idea. Do you cast with more than one mould at a time? I started with a Lee Production Pot and as soon as I could get the Pro Melt I did. It wasn't until later I discovered the Rowells.

Paul

[PatMarlin]

I've found most of my Lee molds won't fill out and drop if the temp is not right before frosting, then when they frost, I cool down the mold on a damp cloth in between pours just a little. They drop real well when the heats just right.

Also, if I don't feel heat through the wood handle (and my leather gloves), I know it's not hot enough. I've got an old RCBS propane cast iron bottom pour pot, and I always preheat the mold by setting it leaned up on the side of the pot.

[hpdrifter]

I've found most of my Lee molds won't fill out and drop if the temp is not right before frosting, then when they frost, I cool down the mold on a damp cloth in between pours just a little. They drop real well when the heats just right.

Also, if I don't feel heat through the wood handle (and my leather gloves), I know it's not hot enough. I've got an old RCBS propane cast iron bottom pour pot, and I always preheat the mold by setting it leaned up on the side of the pot.


I just got a sweet 455 Keith, thru Buckshot I believe, and I'm spoiled. Ditto what Pat Marlin stated. I'm really unexperienced compared to some of these guys, but I got started with that mold just the other night and the hotter it got, the better the boolits got, right up until the bases smeared. Then cooled a tad and kept on trucking. Went thru two post(20 pounder) to darn fast.

Also that full size boolit and lars lube stopped the leading.

[Leftoverdj]

Lee uses a really persistant preservative on their blocks. I boil them for half an hour in soapy water and rinse. Occasionally I have to do it a second time. After that, my Lee moulds fill out, and I have a couple dozen of them.

I keep telling people this, and I keep getting responses about scrubbing the moulds with a toothbrush and carb cleaner and it not working. I coulda told them that in the first place. Boiling in soapy water works. If you insist on "cleaning" in a way that does not work, you are going to keep on having problems.

[pjh421]

Well after taking into consideration the opinions kindly offered here, and reading Old Feller's comments...I'm going with a four cavity Ballisti-Cast and some cross venting, even though they are grossly overpriced. If it wasn't for the crappy sprue plates, I would not hesitate to buy a Lyman or an RCBS.

Paul

[Phil]

My first Lee mold was a six cavity 105 grain 38 cal SWC. I cleaned it in trichlor and started to cast, using wheel weights. Hot, cool, high flow rate, low flow rate, smoked, not smoked, drop poured, pressure poured, it made no difference. You couldn't buy a good bullet with that mold. So I switched to lino. Same story. Sort of out of exasperation I threw the mold into a pan of boiling water with some dishwashing detergent. Left it there a half hour or so and pulled it out. The mold was all shiney aluminum except the cavities! The cavities were a dull gray, almost looked like they were oxidized. Whatever, I boiled them in clean water, tossed and boiled again in clean water twice more. Started out with wheel weights, and about the second pour I started getting good bullets. That mold has been a winner ever since. Makes good bullets and they shoot well into the bargain.

Later on, I got another Lee six cavity mold, 9mm truncated cone 122 grain. Before ever starting to cast with it I went through the boil in soapy water and three rinse routine, and from the beginning it too has cast great bullets. This mold however, did not become dark in the cavities. The cavities are as shiney as the rest of the mold. I don't know if the change in colors on the first mold is due to previously casting bullets in the cavities or not. Life is too short to ponder such things. Anyhow, I guess this will be my routine for Lee molds from now on. Lee makes adequate molds for what I want them for and the price is certainly right. I have four single cavity rifle molds on order now and will know soon if the rifle molds respond as the pistol molds have.

Cheers,

Phil

[10x]

I use a product called brake Kleen to degrease a mold, I then wash with a rather nasty household cleaning spray and rince in hot water. Preheat the mold and usually the second or third bullet from the mold is as close to perfect as one can expect, and they stay that way until the bottom of the pot.
Wrinkles in a lee mold when everything is up to temperature is a sign of a dirty mold. Cool it , clean it, smoke it with a wooden match. Paper matches sometimes have wax in the paper, and never use a candle to smoke a mold.

[BruceB]

I'm not a great fan of Lee products, but I now have about twenty assorted one- and two-cavity Lee moulds. (I still haven't even seen a 6-banger.)

NOT ONE of my Lees has given me any difficulty in turning out well-formed and consistent boolits. It may be something about my fast-and-hot casting methods, but I just do NOT have any difficulty producing decent boolits in any design (short, long, fat, skinny, hollow-base or hollow-point...they ALL work fine!).

The single-cavity Lee .338 boolits shoot far better to date than those from my half-dozen NEI, LBT and Lyman moulds. Several hundred bucks tied-up in .338 moulds, and the humble $15 Lee whips them all, at least so far. Ya just can't tell in advance...