Mauser 98 low profile safety

[rtracy2001]

The stock Mauser has a 3 position safety: OFF, On-bolt unlocked, On- bolt locked. When a low profile safety is installed, it is always a 2 position safety due to the limited swing available with the scope. I really like being able to open the bolt with the safety on. I don't like taking the safety off to do anything but fire.


The question becomes who makes a low profile safety that allows the bolt to open with the safety engaged?

Am I nuts to consider opening the bolt with the safety engaged as a desireable feature?

[hornsurgeon]

i think some of the safety's can be modified not to lock the bolt. i think the shaft needs to be shortened so it does not contact the bolt to do this.

[waksupi]

I have tried the low profile safeties a couple times, and was not happy with them. They did not stay in safe position reliably. A much better solution is a Gentry three position safety, if they are still available.

[scrapcan]

I agree with Waksupi, you should look up a side swing three position safety. I have a low mount that is on the left side instead of the right side. I like it as it is natural feeling to use thumb to push it off.

One must also think that with a 98 that cocks on opening a two position is the way to go. You don't need the safety when opening the bolt as the cocking piece will ride the came and keep firing pin back. If you have sear let off when you release the safe you have bigger issues.

[deltaenterprizes]

Change the trigger and get one with a Remington style safety and replace the bolt shroud.

[rtracy2001]

I have tried the low profile safeties a couple times, and was not happy with them. They did not stay in safe position reliably. A much better solution is a Gentry three position safety, if they are still available.

The website is still up: http://gentrycustom.com/pages/product_pages/safety.html#

They do look really nice, I am almost afraid to call and ask the price.


I have a low mount that is on the left side instead of the right side. I like it as it is natural feeling to use thumb to push it off.

I have a low swing mounted on the left side of my 8mm-06 and I like it. My only complaints are that it is way too stiff to engage, and the safety still hits the scope when it is engaged (very slight, so I will solve that with a file) I looked at it the other day and I am thinking I can adjust the ramp on the safety to make it easier to engage.


Change the trigger and get one with a Remington style safety and replace the bolt shroud.

I really like the mauser safety system, the fact that it lifts the cocking piece off the seer is absolutely briliant. I will never call any safey 100% safe, but the mauser design gets high marks in my book.

[waksupi]

http://www.brownells.com/.aspx/cid=0/k=gentry+safety/t=P/ksubmit=y/Products/All/search=gentry_safety

[JFrench]

I have used a low position safety on a 250 savage mexican mauser for 30 years. I have had no problems Your main safety is between your ears. Control the muzzle direction always.
James

[scrapcan]

here is a similar style side swing made by Dakota, I like the Gentry also. the Dakota is shown as out of stock at both midway and brownells but a call to them never hurts. The Gentry is available.

http://www.midwayusa.com/viewProduct/?productNumber=877219

If you have access to a mill or other toosl capable of doing a conversion, one could look at he Chapman or Wisner side swing safety conversions. I am told the Wisner is easier to machine the shroud for. I have not done either but ahve seen both. One needs to be heat treated aafter fitting, not sure which one.

http://www.midwayusa.com/viewProduct/?productNumber=877219

[rtracy2001]

All those options really do look nice, but it will be really tough to buy a safety that costs more than 3 times what I paid for the rifle. I suppose it is all relative, and you get what you pay for.

[scrapcan]

rtracy2001,

now you know why the beuhler style low profile is so popular. I am in the same boat as you as far as "boy that is nice, but wow look at the price". Or safety, who needs a safety.

One could also find an aftermarket trigger gorup with safety as mentioned earlier, but again you now have an exspensive beater rifle.

[hornsurgeon]

look into the bold triggers from boyds. you can also get them from midway, and sporter express i believe. nice for the price, one with a safety isn't too bad of a price.

[Clark]

http://www.gswagner.com/swede/pmssafety/compare.htm

As Wagner points out, the $30 Wisner is nicer than the $20 Chapman.

I have installed both.
I have the Chapman tooling.

Milling through the Mauser safety shroud with a saw takes annealing and low r.p.m. or the saw gets dull. Ask me how I know:(

[Von Gruff]

My 98's have either the origional flag with aperture sights or the lowered flag (still left side) for aperture - scope use. Keeps the thumb on the side of the stock that it needs to be for quick operation. If $ were of no concern then I would like the Satterlee side swing (left side) safety.

Von Gruff.

[scrapcan]

Von Gruff,

I had not seen the left side Satterlee, I like it alot. Someday that would make a nice additon on a custom.

[Larry Gibson]

rtracy

"The question becomes who makes a low profile safety that allows the bolt to open with the safety engaged?"

Both the Dayton Traister and Timney (Buehler remake) can easily be modifyed to allow the bolt to open when on safe. Simply note where the front of the shaft rotates blocking the bolt and grind it so the bolt will open.

If unloading the magazine is the problem with the safety off then consider with the claw extractor it is not necessary to close the bolt on a chambered round. Simply chamber the cartridge until it pops out of the feed rails up under the extractor and then extract the cartridge. Entirely safe that way as the bolt is not closed. Of course the rifle should be pointed in a safe direction when taking the safety off and doing such just in case the trigger is actidently pressed or the bolt is accidently closed.

Larry Gibson

[Von Gruff]

rtracy


If unloading the magazine is the problem with the safety off then consider with the claw extractor it is not necessary to close the bolt on a chambered round. Simply chamber the cartridge until it pops out of the feed rails up under the extractor and then extract the cartridge. Entirely safe that way as the bolt is not closed. Of course the rifle should be pointed in a safe direction when taking the safety off and doing such just in case the trigger is actidently pressed or the bolt is accidently closed.

Larry Gibson

The only round I need to unload using the bolt is the one in the chamber and a safety that allows the bolt to be worked is preferable for me to do this, although I have to admit that for years my go-to 98 in 7x61 S&H had no working safety except my care in handling.
My 98's have a magazine release button that is far more eficient to unload the magazine with than to crank them out with the bolt.

Von Gruff.

[rtracy2001]

The only round I need to unload using the bolt is the one in the chamber and a safety that allows the bolt to be worked is preferable for me to do this,

Von Gruff.

Amen to that. While I am still working on getting the floorplate release to where I want it on my Mausers, the round in the chamber is still the biggest concern. The secondary concern is it is much easier to dissasemble the bolt for cleaning and lubrication if you can open it with the safety on.

Larry,

Looks like your plan is the winner. I would rather not get the grinder out, but it is probably the way I will go.

[bruce drake]

I usually keep the chamber empty and my finger off the trigger when I am hunting until I see game. Then I can usually work the bolt fast enough to safely fire at the animal. If its a fleeting shot that would require me to potentially do a hasty shot or a potential miss, than I don't normally fire.

Thus, I have really effective safety on my Mauser rifles since there isn't a cartridge in the chamber until its time for me to fire the rifle.

For target shooting I primarily shoot aperture for highpower but for long-range matches I use a scope. I primarily keep the rifle empty until need to load a cartridge for the shot there as well.

Bruce

[DCM]

I have tried the low profile safeties a couple times, and was not happy with them. They did not stay in safe position reliably. A much better solution is a Gentry three position safety, if they are still available.

+ Another 1 on that!!

More money, but well worth it! Its just like having a 3 position Dakota or model 70 safety.

http://www.gentrycustom.com/pages/product_pages/safety.html

If you are using the original firing pin and are only concerned with removing the round from the chamber, the way the bolt is set up once you start to raise the bolt handle the firing pin cannot contact the primer. If you take the bolt apart and carefully inspect how it was designed you will see what I mean.

M98 113 years later and it is still the benchmark for bolt actions. Reliable controlled feeding etc. etc. .

[Ernest]

some older commercial Mausers had the scope mounted quite high so that the flag safety would pass under the eye piece of the scope. I have always wanted to try to mount a scope with long eye relief very low but far enough forward so that the the flag safety would pass in front of the eye piece just to see if it was a workable system.

[Von Gruff]

You could always use the lengthened and lowerd flag like this one on my 7x57. It works well both with the bolt mounted aperture and the scope when the aperture is lowered and the scope in qd rings is attached....... and it is on the left side as designed by Herr Mauser for a right handed shooter.
http://i667.photobucket.com/albums/vv39/VonGruff/7x57StalkingRifle02-02-09022.jpg

Von Gruff.

[gnoahhh]

Von Gruff's approach is the way to go, IMO. My current Mauser project has the scope in a Griffin&Howe QD sidemount, positioned high enough to permit the original safety to be used, which IMO is still the very best Mauser safety, period. (Plus it allows for a more pleasing- to me- bolt handle profile.) It absolutely positively locks the striker. However, I also am in the process of making a Rigby-style cocking piece sight very similar to the one Von Gruff pictures. The use of that sight might make the original safety un-handy. I guess I'll have to try it and find out. My philosophy regarding classic Mauser and Springfield sporters is that the main sighting system should be a peep sight, with the scope carried separately in an ancillary role. Using the original safety as-is when using a Lyman 48 as I do now (and in the past) works, but like I said this new sight may cause me to re-think it.

VG- did the quake effect you? I hope not, but if it did I hope you and yours are alright.

[Von Gruff]

Von Gruff's approach is the way to go, IMO. My current Mauser project has the scope in a Griffin&Howe QD sidemount, positioned high enough to permit the original safety to be used, which IMO is still the very best Mauser safety, period. (Plus it allows for a more pleasing- to me- bolt handle profile)

I had straight bolt handles made for the pair of rifles and while it requires a slightly higher set for the scope, that is carried in a german styled leather scope bag and stays there untill and unless needed.

http://i667.photobucket.com/albums/vv39/VonGruff/7x57StalkingRifle02-02-09021.jpg


VG- did the quake effect you? I hope not, but if it did I hope you and yours are alright.

Thankfully not. We are 350 miles south but it is a bad day for those affected.

Von Gruff.

[gnoahhh]

Good to hear.

Did you cut a v-notch in the striker face and a male-v in the sear to get repeatable shot-to-shot alignment of the parts to increase accuracy with the cocking piece sight? I've heard some say that's necessary, others say it's not. I really like that bolt handle too. Heck, I really like that whole gun!!

I carry my scopes in a shoulder-slung leather tube until they're needed. Picked it up in a gun shop in Frankfurt, Germany.

[Von Gruff]

Good to hear.

Did you cut a v-notch in the striker face and a male-v in the sear to get repeatable shot-to-shot alignment of the parts to increase accuracy with the cocking piece sight? I've heard some say that's necessary, others say it's not. I really like that bolt handle too. Heck, I really like that whole gun!!

I carry my scopes in a shoulder-slung leather tube until they're needed. Picked it up in a gun shop in Frankfurt, Germany.

I didn't have the v notch cut because this particular 1908 action was in an unused state when I got it. My GS said he had never seen a tighter origional action. The bolt when locked down can not be mooved laterally and the accuracy I have achieved with the aperture indicates that notch is unnessary.
The 404 stablemate to this 7x57 has been built on a 1950'2 FN and has had a LOT of use before being built but is slick. The rear of the bolt has moovement on lockdown but I am still able to shoot this at 55yds although the aperture is a bridge mount. So not sure that the notch is necessary at all.
http://i667.photobucket.com/albums/vv39/VonGruff/002-4.jpg

Von Gruff.

[scb]

The question becomes who makes a low profile safety that allows the bolt to open with the safety engaged?

This is the one I put on my last build. Too bad they're so expensive.
http://www.brownells.com/.aspx/pid=6676/avs%7CManufacturer_1=GENTRY%20CUSTOM%20LLC/Product/M_98_THREE_POSITION_SAFETY_SHROUD




Am I nuts to consider opening the bolt with the safety engaged as a desireable feature?

No. Remington is being sued on a regular basis because the M700 won't open with the safety on.

[gnoahhh]

Thanks Von Gruff. I think I'll try it first as-is. I can always do the notches if accuracy isn't acceptable. (The donor action came from a WWII 1943 BRNO, probably the last of the smoothly finished wartime 98's. It's tight and smooth, not having been used much since new. This I know because my uncle sent it home from Normandy in mid-1944 after relieving it from it's original owner. He never fired it but a handful of times, despite doing a 60's style sporterization job on it- thankfully without polishing it. It was kind of a shame to take the original military barrel off because it is pristine sharp and shiny and shot unbelievably well. Now a solid ribbed 7x57 barrel resides in place.)

[Von Gruff]

gnoahhh, the only point I would make is to make sure the bolt handle bears on the action edge rather than the stock wood. It was this area of bolt handle contact that my GS made a comment on as we designed the bolt handle dimensions and as I was about to start on the stockwork. Many bolt handles bear on the stock and wear-compression can alter POI. For accuracy work I drop the bolt handle more deliberately ( to eliminate "bounce") rather than the slap down of the hunting reload and if the quick reload is needed then pinpoint accuracy usually isn't.

Von Gruff.

[gnoahhh]

For some reason no posts since 2/25/11 on this thread have shown up for me. This thread only! The rest of the forum works fine. Weird.

[Von Gruff]

That is all I see as well. My post on the 25th Feb is last before your post.
Is there something that makes you think there have been more than is shown.

Have you made any progress with the bolt mounted aperture sight?

Von Gruff.

[gnoahhh]

Strange. My screen shows that you posted several times since then VG! Oh well, machs nix.

Slow progress. Many irons in the fire! The body is pretty much done. Had to start over as the first one was turning out chunkier than I wanted, the idea being to keep it as light as possible. Major work done in the mill, lots of filing to achieve the tricky bits. The front of the body is still extra heavy as I haven't quite decided on the final dimension of the mounting dove tail (and whether or not to have the dovetail slide inside of a separate block in order to achieve some windage adjustment instead of just drifting the front sight like I origially planned). Like I said, it's styled much like yours, not a clone by any means.

[David2011]

"Change the trigger and get one with a Remington style safety and replace the bolt shroud. "

Sorry, but with all due respect, that's a trigger block- not a safety. Mauser had it right by retracting and blocking the movement of the firing pin.

I built my last project rifle with a Buehler safety on the left side for a right handed shooter as in the photo above. I didn't know that Herr Mauser intended it that way; just had some in the spare parts and did what seemed right. I can operate it without moving my hand from the wrist of the stock.

David

[Brithunter]

You could always use the lengthened and lowerd flag like this one on my 7x57. It works well both with the bolt mounted aperture and the scope when the aperture is lowered and the scope in qd rings is attached....... and it is on the left side as designed by Herr Mauser for a right handed shooter.
http://i667.photobucket.com/albums/vv39/VonGruff/7x57StalkingRifle02-02-09022.jpg

Von Gruff.


Very nice too. The safety is a Parker-Hale low swing one which they offered on their African magnums. The rear sight is a copy of a Rigby's bolt tail one. Or is it an original?

The P-H safety works as it should, on mine at least, which is an 1100M in .458WM:-

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v166/Brithunter/P-H%201100M/Chamberingmarking.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v166/Brithunter/P-H%201100M/ActionandScopemounts.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v166/Brithunter/P-H%201100M/MuzzleView.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v166/Brithunter/P-H%201100M/Expressrearsight.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v166/Brithunter/P-H%201100M/Acytion-StockRHS.jpg
This one has the Mauser two stage trigger still.

Have been considering a nice sporting aperture sight and aquired a Lyman 57SME but have not driller and tapped the side of the rear bridge for it. There are a couple of people making those Rigby style sights now but they are not cheap.

[Texas by God]

I've used the Numrich left side style (no longer made and missed), the Dayton Traister, and the Buehler right side models. All worked fine after fitting. My only current Mauser has a Buehler -works great.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G930A using Tapatalk

[Hardcast416taylor]

HMMMMM. Decisions, decisions, decisions. Same 3 position safety Gentry unit from Brownell`s for $190.00 or from Midway for $140.00! I either used a Buehler low scope safety or Timney or Bold side safety with a after market smooth cocking piece assembly.Robert

[Blanket]

All my Mausers and Springfields that have been worked on have Buehlers but in all honesty I have never used a safety on a bolt rifle. Was taught to carry with an empty chamber with the striker down and in 50 plus years have never seen the need to do anything else hunting animals

[Red Elk]

I firmly agree with the premise of adding a three position side swing safety.
While there are other options, all are lesser efforts. The cost of a high quality three position side swing M70 type safety is really a small price to pay for excellent mechanics. It is without a question, the best.
I have used all the other options available. While they do cost a little more, over the years it will be a very small addition to the cost of the rifle you will use for a long, long time. It is time and effort well spent.
The work to install a three position safety is not incredibly complex, and can be accomplished with a dremel tool and files, if you take your time and proceed with caution and a steady hand. If not, the cost to have a good gunsmith install one, is still a great investment.
The three position side swing safety turns a solid reliable platform into a modern and efficient design which will be cherished for generations.
Simply put, it is the best decision. Go and earn a little more, and put it where it counts. You will not regret it later.
re

[LAGS]

On the Low Budget Sporters that I made over the years, I would just modify the Original Safty on Mausers to make it a two position safety that laid over on the right side of the bolt.
It worked great and like was said by another post, I hardly ever use the safety when hunting.
I carry chamber empty
These are some of the Fancy ones that I made.
But they can be made without any welding or forging.
These safeties do not lock the bolt when the safety is on.

[waksupi]

All my Mausers and Springfields that have been worked on have Buehlers but in all honesty I have never used a safety on a bolt rifle. Was taught to carry with an empty chamber with the striker down and in 50 plus years have never seen the need to do anything else hunting animals

Come out to grizzly country!

It can be "enlightening"!

[swheeler]

Yes those out of state hunters are SOOOOOOOOOO tasty!:)

[Texas by God]

If I'm hunting, there is a round in the chamber. If I'm not, there's not one in the chamber. I like to shoot before the game escapes if possible.

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[Yodogsandman]

I much prefer a side safety after market trigger.

[BS2]

Mauser Sniper Extended Bolt Safety.
Would this work? Only seen pictures, but looks like it would work well with w scope.

[Texas by God]

Mauser Sniper Extended Bolt Safety.
Would this work? Only seen pictures, but looks like it would work well with w scope.It will work if your scope is mounted really high.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G930A using Tapatalk

[James Wisner]

In 1984 I drew a Goat tag here in WA, and the rifle I packed for years was a Mauser with an old Jaeger trigger I had converted to a tang safety. When I had the Goat in my sights, I pushed off the safety and pulled the trigger and ???, AHA I did not have the safety off all the way, YUP, BANG in the air over the Goats head. Needless to say two things happened, One the second shot killed old Whiskers, and I never had had another tang safety on a rifle since.

I started working on making Win M70 three positon safetys to fit the Mauser 98 action. Took me a while but got them all figured out and started a nice business making those they of safetsy for quite a number of years. At one point I was making that type of M70 safety to fit 14 differrent actions.

As far as I am concerend it is the only type of safety you should have.

With the lever forward the rifle will fire, in the middle position the cocking piece is retracted and locked, but you can open the bolt to remove any ammo, with the bolt closed, and the safety to the rear the cocking piece is retracted and the bolt handle is locked.

Just my 2 cents.

JW

[waksupi]

In 1984 I drew a Goat tag here in WA, and the rifle I packed for years was a Mauser with an old Jaeger trigger I had converted to a tang safety. When I had the Goat in my sights, I pushed off the safety and pulled the trigger and ???, AHA I did not have the safety off all the way, YUP, BANG in the air over the Goats head. Needless to say two things happened, One the second shot killed old Whiskers, and I never had had another tang safety on a rifle since.

I started working on making Win M70 three positon safetys to fit the Mauser 98 action. Took me a while but got them all figured out and started a nice business making those they of safetsy for quite a number of years. At one point I was making that type of M70 safety to fit 14 differrent actions.

As far as I am concerend it is the only type of safety you should have.

With the lever forward the rifle will fire, in the middle position the cocking piece is retracted and locked, but you can open the bolt to remove any ammo, with the bolt closed, and the safety to the rear the cocking piece is retracted and the bolt handle is locked.

Just my 2 cents.

JW

I agree the M70 safety is by far the best. Too bad they have got so darned expensive, I have one more rifle I need to convert.

[EDG]

They taste the same as resident hunters except there are less of them to feed the bears.


Yes those out of state hunters are SOOOOOOOOOO tasty!:)

[EDG]

The best safety is probably the 98 Mauser with the original military trigger. This whole thread is mostly a consequence of using a scope. If hunting dangerous critters why not forget the scope?

[rtracy2001]

The best safety is probably the 98 Mauser with the original military trigger. This whole thread is mostly a consequence of using a scope. If hunting dangerous critters why not forget the scope?

I've never hunted dangerous critters, or over bait/salt, so most shots are at least a couple hundred yards. Under ideal conditions, I could probably hit game at that distance with open sights or a peep, but I seldom find ideal conditions in the field, so the scope is quite convenient.

[blysmelter]

Mauser Sniper Extended Bolt Safety.
Would this work? Only seen pictures, but looks like it would work well with w scope.

They work very well. On some m98s the have a little bit sloppy feel due to tolerances between the shaft of the safety and it's bore. This doesnt affect it's function. You can remove this play with some teflon tape, or by installing a tiny plastic/nylon pice.

If your wallet is empty and still long time untill payday;
235769

[psweigle]

I have to say, the Dakota 3 position safety is a cheap, relatively easy way to make a SAFE propper working rifle. The sniper safety looks like a very viable alternative as well, though i have no experience with it. Another alternative would be a scout scope setup, although in my own oppinion, i think they look goofy. I have never tried on though, so who knows........

[shortlegs]

I use the Dakota 3 position safety on both of my 98s and love them.

[Texas by God]

I was thinking of something different obviously. That sniper safety would work but it's ugly and probably not smooth or quiet. I still prefer the left side wing type. Model 70 type is fine if that's what you like. All of them secure the firing pin when on safe.

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[Sailormilan2]

If I remember correctly, and it's been many years since I did it, I modified a low scope safety to allow working the bolt with the safety on. So one could unload the gun without taking it off safety.
If I recall correctly, the end of the shaft is not circular. Rather it has a "D" shape to it. What I did was to grind off part of the"D", so that instead of being half the shaft, it was only about 1/4 of the shaft.
That allowed enough clearance so that the bolt could rotate while the safety was engaged.

[EDG]

Dependence on a safety for safety is not a good idea.
I like to have my bolt locked closed even if I carry the chamber empty. Bolt handle often get snagged in brush. With an unlocked bolt your bolt can flop open. I knew a guy who had a sticking bolt stop on a M700 Remington. While elk hunting he found his bolt missing. He had carried his rifle unlocked. His bolt opened and the bolt fell out on the ground. He said his hunting buddies laughed their tails off at no bolt rifle.


The stock Mauser has a 3 position safety: OFF, On-bolt unlocked, On- bolt locked. When a low profile safety is installed, it is always a 2 position safety due to the limited swing available with the scope. I really like being able to open the bolt with the safety on. I don't like taking the safety off to do anything but fire.


The question becomes who makes a low profile safety that allows the bolt to open with the safety engaged?

Am I nuts to consider opening the bolt with the safety engaged as a desireable feature?