I'm making crappy bullets with these new molds...

[Jimmy]

Hi Folks,

I've been casting for a couple months now. I started out just casting 38 special bullets out of straight wheel weights using a little 4 pound Lee Furnace with a 2 cavity Lee mold (TL358-158-SWC). I can turn out great bullets with this mold and they have shot well.
I decided to upgrade the pot to one with a bottom pour, and I also grabbed a couple Lee six-cavity for 9mm and 45 (TL356-124-2R and TL452-230-2R).
With the 45 caliber mold, the bullets turn out OK with some wrinkles. With the 9mm, I can't get one decent frickin bullet. The things come out lookin like lil turds.
I make sure to let the molds heat up super hot. They get even hotter when I pour more and more into the molds. I thought something was wrong, so I went back to my 2 cavity 38 special mold (also made by Lee) and on the first shot, I get perfect looking bullets... So I know it's not the mix or the furnace.

What is it with my six cavity molds? I'm attaching a picture. The **** on the left is the wannabe 9mm bullet that the mold turns out. Next in line is a wrinkly lookin 45 caliber. Next is a decent 45 caliber. Last is a 38 special that I never seem to have a problem with.

All help and advice is appreciated. Thanks.

[arjacobson]

I don't know if its the right way to do it but I preheat my lee molds with a propane torch.. Is your molds broke in good? I had to mess with my lees a bit they cast beautiful now..

[HangFireW8]

I dunno, still looks like a cold mold boolit to me... how long did it take the sprues to cool, and how hard was it to cut the sprues with the 9mm?

[Ole]

Have you cleaned your 6 cavity molds with soap and water and mineral spirits?

[Shiloh]

Did you clean the new molds thoroughly?? That looks like some sort of petroleum based contaminant still on the mold. Could be cutting fluid residue. I might be wax residue or Bullplate if you used it, from lubing the pivots and alignment pins.

Clean them again REALLY well and try again.

Shiloh

[docone31]

Your mold is too cool. That is the source of the wrinkles.
Rest the mold in the melt before you start casting. You should be able to count to six just before the individual sprues freeze.
I call it the six second rule.
Five seconds, too cool. longer and it is too hot. If you can pour the mold back into the pot, waaay too hot.
Heat them up.

[Jimmy]

HangFire,
It takes the sprues a few seconds to harden. Seems like just as long as it would take on my other mold. Everything seemed right, until I opened the mold up and dumped the bullets out. I agree that they look "cold," however, you would think after letting the molds heat up inside the furnace, and trying over and over to get a decent bullet, that the mold would be super hot.

I'd like to try a propane torch but don't own one.

[Jimmy]

Shiloh-
No, I haven't cleaned them at all. I'll have to try soap and water tomorrow. Didn't really think that'd be an issue with a new mold.

[Rangefinder]

That's your issue. Dawn dish soap, tooth brush, and then boil for a few. If even the slightest hint of cutting oil is left in the mold from the factory, you'll keep getting ugly little turds.

[RobS]

Jimmy:
Welcome to the forum. I suggest that if you haven't washed the mold in hot water, dawn dish soap (or equivilant), and an old tooth brush that you should as it will eliminate the possibility of still have the cutting oils in the cavities from the factory. You'd be surprised how long oil can stay in a mold. Six cavity molds are tougher to keep at casting temp so it isn't unlikely that you either need to speed your casting tempo up (don't worry about looking at the fugly boolits that first come out) or turn up the temp of the alloy. You may also try to increase the flow of the pot if it is the 20lbs lee pot and/or position the mold further underneith the bottom pour spout so there is more downward pull from gravity. If you have the Lee 10lbs pot you can't adjust the flow so the only thing you can do is position the mold further underneith the spout.

Another great tool is a hot plate to sit the mold on while heating up your alloy. You can also try to preheat the mold by sitting it on top rim of the pot while it melts down the lead alloy. If you don't have cash for a hot plate then you may have to dip the end of the mold into hot alloy to help assist in preheating the mold, although I never liked doing this. I believe the Lee molds come with directions that tell the operator how to do this.

I see either cutting oil still in the mold and/or the mold is not up to casting temp yet.

[mooman76]

Them 6x are a bugger to geet up to temp some times. More heat.

[bigjake]

Jimmy, use a small paint brush with mineral spirits and scrub out the cavities, then wipe out with a clean rag. take the mould to your stove and heat that sucker up on the burner, be careful not to overheat it. put a tiny bit of bullet lube on the alinement pins so the mold halves slide together easily. the first cast will be too hot, the sprues will take forever to harden, thats okay the next bunch and so on will be sweet. they might be a bit frosty, but thats just fine because the tumble lube will stick better.

[HeavyMetal]

Your suffering from two problems.

As has already been mentioned the molds have some residue and they are way to cold.

Remove the mold blocks from the handles and set them in a pot of water with some Dawn dish washing soap in it then bring to a boil.

WARNING: go to a thrift store and buy your own pot! Failure to do so may cause cancelation of ........ well SWMBO will find something to cancel and you won't like it!

I then run Q-tips through the cavities to make sure they are dry.

I also ignore any "tips" Lee has put in the instructions for thier molds, if you want them screwed up from the get go add bullet lube to them!

Instead lube with either Antisize or Bull plate lube and use sparingly!

Run the alloy to at least 730. Then dip corners of the mold into the alloy to get it hot even if you left it on the pot to pre heat while it came up to temp.

Sprue should take a good medium speed 8 to 10 count to harden. anything faster and the mold alloy are still to cold.

Next I'll point out that you chose the hardest molds to get good fill out in the Lee tumble lube design.

Heat will help you out with these a lot!

[Recluse]

Doby45 uses a single burner hotplate he found at one of the Wal stores (Walmart or Walgreens) and an old circular saw blade on top of it to even out the heat--and from this, he has a dandy mold pre-heat system.

So that's one part of the solution.

Second part of the solution is to check out the Lee-menting process, which is needed on just about every single Lee mold. Not a problem as I have a number of two-cavity Lee molds and after Lee-menting, have zero problems with them.

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?t=654

http://www.castpics.net/LeementingKitDocumentation.htm

Note a couple things of importance in those two articles, namely making sure your cavities are clean, polished and free of any oil or debris. Two, making sure your vent lines are scribed out well. Don't overdo them, but especially with the two-cavity molds, you'll need a little help.

Finally, send a few bucks to Dan for some Bullplate mold lube. Good stuff for any mold and great stuff for aluminum molds.

http://bullshop.gunloads.com/tbs_products.htm

That six-banger mold? Takes lots of heat, a steady rhythm of casting to keep the heat up, and if not, you're going to get Obama-ugly boolits.

:coffee:

[XWrench3]

took me a while to get good boolits out of my lee 6 poppers as well. some of the things i did was, first make absoloutly certain the mold is CLEAN, i mean surgicly clean! soak them in mineral spirits, then wash with a tooth brush in HOT soapy dawn, and rinse like crazy. then, get the mold what you think is hot, and pour it full. break off the sprues, then, heat the mold with a propane torch until all the cavities have molten lead in them. let this get cool to about 500 degrees or so, dump them, and cast about 10 pounds worth of lead thru the mold. dont worry about how they turn out. although they should get progressivly better. after you have done that, let the mold get cold. then, you should be ready to go with that mold. try it on one mold. if it works, then you will know what to do with the rest. for some reason, they just do not seem to cast well at first. like the process of running lead through the mold breaks it in. maybe that is the way aluminum is, maybe it is that particular grade of aluminum, maybe it is what lee uses for cutting fluid. i do not know. i just have to go by trial and error, and this board. between the 2, i cast well enough now to do for me. good luck! p.s. lube the pins like the lube was $10,000 dollars an ounce. you only need a little, and any extra WILL find its way into the cavities, and you will have lousey bullets again.

[sqlbullet]

Lots of guys will boil their new mold blocks. I have a vegetable brush I use on mine.

Scrub them really good. No oil left at all.

[Tazman1602]

The two on the left are too cold a mold man. Get a $10 hotplate and put a piece of steel or something on in, preheat the mold after making sure they are CLEAN (like laquer thinner or brakeclean clean...) and the problem will go away...really.

$10 hotplate was the best investment I ever made in casting besides my molds...

Art

[GP100man]

After cleanin em . scrubbin & mineral sprits wipeout put em it on the hot plate & let it start smokin , adjust heat to keep it smokin but not overheat it !!

After smokin let it cool completely , then start over preheat & cast !!

I do this with the 2 holers & have success !!

[94Doug]

And after all the cleaning and pre-heating, it might just take 2 or 3 sessions to break them in, get any remaining oil out of them, and have them working like they should.


Doug

[prs]

The smaller 6 cavity molds are a bit harder to heat-up, but I don't propane them or hot plate them. I just run the lead at mix temp and cast/dump/cast/dump several times until the spru of first cavity filled is still liquid after the last cavity is filled. That makes nice frosty boolits that I like, but if you like shiny boolits, just reduce your pot temp a bit and slow the pace a bit. But, with 6 cavity molds you do have to cast fast enough so that the spru handle is opened while the lead is still a bit soft. Tooth brush and hot water with dish soap is all you need to clean.

prs

[mdi]

Have you cleaned your 6 cavity molds with soap and water and mineral spirits?

I think this is a good start. Really clean! Also, turn up the heat a bit, those wrinkles look like a cold melt and/or mold.

[fryboy]

+ about 10 on the clean and heat parts ..

that being stated plz keep in mind that aluminum is a very pourous material ( as far as metal goes that is ) when cut or etched clean it oxidizes very very rapidly , as they cut the cavities they should be using a lube of some sort ( i've seen some with so much chatter i wonder sometimes but i digress ) as soon as the fresh pores are opened up they are covered in cutting fluid , usually a oil based product of some sort , this fills the pores and can be a bear to get out , and yes oil in the pores will act like a cold mold with incomplete fillout , too high of a heat will aslo round off some sharper edges and the like but from your foto this isnt the case , either the mold/melt temp was too low or that oil thing and possibly a combo of all the above but even if you do get up to the proper heat having oil in the pores will end up with poorly formed castings

[geargnasher]

Shiloh-
No, I haven't cleaned them at all. I'll have to try soap and water tomorrow. Didn't really think that'd be an issue with a new mold.

That assumption is the root of your problems. All new moulds come with cutting oil embedded in the pores of the metal and must be cleaned completely or you will have lots wrinkles.

The other thing is that Lee two-cavity moulds get hot really fast and are easy to keep hot so they cast well with good fillout. A 20-second dip of the edge of the mould in your melt and they should be ready to cast. The six-cavity moulds are an entirely different animal. I've found that preheating for 10 minutes with a hot plate on medium-high is usually what it takes to get mine hot enough.

Gear

[Doby45]

Wal store, hot plate mold oven..

http://www.castboolits.gunloads.com/showpost.php?p=1002067&postcount=110

[zxcvbob]

I sit my mold on top of the furnace and let it heat up while the lead is melting.

One thing you *really* don't want to do with a Lee 6-cavity is ever cast with the mold actually cold -- thinking the hot lead will heat it up after a couple of drops. You will break off the sprue handle trying to get it open. Don't ask me how I know this.

I just bought a Lee 148 grain TL wadcutter mold. The mold still needs a little work to get them to drop out easily, but man those boolits shoot straight! (even the slightly wrinkled ones.) I'm gonna screw a sheet metal screw into the center of one of my prettiest boolits and use it with a little toothpaste to lap the mold cavities. I've never done this with a mold before, but I'm shooting a lot of these and I don't like having to bang on the handle bolt with a hammer handle all the time to get them to drop out.

I use a little high-temperature EP grease on a Q-tip to lube the alignment pins on my 2-holers and the sprue plate latch on my 6-holers. Don't even think of using candle wax or boolit lube on your molds or it will migrate into the cavities and give you wrinkled turd-bullets again.

[Recluse]

Wal store, hot plate mold oven..

http://www.castboolits.gunloads.com/showpost.php?p=1002067&postcount=110

Yep, I had to give you all the credit for this one--pure genius in its simplicity and resourcefulness.

Gonna duplicate it myself this weekend. :)

:coffee:

[Doby45]

Shoot I got everything I know about casting here, and thanks to people like yourself and Gearnasher (the coffee can lid was his idea). Glad to be able to give back.. ;)

[ReloaderEd]

DON'T PRESSURE CAST USING THE BOTTOM POUR FURNACE. Melt the lead/alloy or wheel weights and flux the molten lead using beeswax or bullet lube Alox/Beeswas. Use some flux on the bottom pour sprue to clear the bottom pour nipple.
Set the pour to a slow pour. Hold the mold about half and inch below the pour nipple. Pour slowing filling all cavities in the mold. You should get clean nice formed bullets at that point if the mold is cean (I use acetone to clean the mold cavity when the mold is cold) and the mold is hot enough. If the bullets get a frosty appearance turn down the heat, if the sprue solidifys to fast turn up the heat. Be safe wear safety glasses and good leather gloves. :Fire:

[Hardcast416taylor]

Clean the mold very well, then spray it out with brake cleaner followed by compressed air. Heat the mold and the lead hotter. Even if you are using straight wheel weights add a 6" piece of leadless solder or some other source of tin for better fill out of the pouring. Never assume a mold is ready to use just because you just bought it, how do you think the mold cavities were made?

Another good pre-heater is the plans Whitetailhunter had on the site about a month ago. He used a 4x4x3 electrical box with a blank cover and a BBQ temp gauge. Cut a door in one side and bend the cut part down to act as a shelf for the handles. I put a scrap piece of metal under this oven on my hotplate. When the BBQ gauge says 400 I start casting with it. I used every type mold I`ve got from single cavity up thru 6 cavity in this little gem.Robert

[Jimmy]

People on this forum are pretty damn helpful.. Jeez.
I'm going to do just about everything you guys posted and I'm sure I'll be back to casting good boolits in no time.

[SCIBUL]

Hello.
Since I've read this on this forum, I always boil my new molds and don't have this problem anymore.