Right place for this question ?

[Jack Stanley]

Just breezing over the first page it looks like most every body is working with metal projects . This is the first time I've been on this page of the forum , I really don't get to deep in repairs and such . I was curious , do any of you make your own stocks and what is your favored wood if you do ?

Thanks , Jack

[woodpile]

I always prefer walnut. American black if its a low recoil gun. English or turkish for the big boys.

[shooter93]

I do some of the work on my stocks but the Gunmaker does do the bulk of it. I've used English/ Turkish....they are the same wood, American Black walnut, Bastogne and even some Claro. Might do one with East Indian Rosewood. with the grain laid out right any of those woods will work unless the rifle is a real brute and the old school thinking that you can only have figure in the butt and not up through the stock or the rifle won't shoot or hold zero is bunk. That's left over from the days of barrels being bedded with up pressure on them. Today most are floated, I even have a full floated Full stock gun.

[Tazman1602]

Good quality figured Walnut Jack.............although I've got one of the last pieces of big Mesquite that Rinehart-Fajen ever made being saved for a special project one of these days.

What I've found from stocking a ton of old Mausers when you could still buy the actions at a decent price is that the harder the wood (walnuts been the best to me....) the easier it is to work with.

Art

[Jack Stanley]

I have a small accumulation of Garands I've gotten some attractive wood for . A very nice black walnut , a so-so French walnut a Bastonge stock that I really like and a cherry stock amongst a few more common woods .

As far as strength goes I was told that cherry is about par with black walnut and was used in the black powder era . Any truth to that ?

When you say Turkish and English are the same thing , can you include Carpathian in that as well ? When I was researching walnuts ( as a crop ) I learned that's where the Turkish walnuts came from .


And what pray tell is Claro ?? Pardon my ignorance .

Jack

[Just Duke]

Jack, I have to pick up a gun stock duplicator here real quick. Give me a jingle.

[shooter93]

Claro walnut is a Northern California walnut that is often used as a root stock for nut bearing trees. It's considered a lesser walnut because it is much coarser grained than English etc so it need coarser checkering but can have some very striking grain patterns. The various English walnuts, turkish, carpathian etc are the same family named for where they are grown. Soil condidtions and mineral content effect the wood so they appear different. Northwest Black walnut has a more purplish cast than eastern Black walnut. Cherry makes a good stock to but is generally bland in figure. And as mentioned Mesquite is used too. There are a huge number of decent woods that can be used. I know a fellow with probably 150 rifles and each is stocked with a different wood.

[Jack Stanley]

Thanks for the info on claro shooter93 , I've heard of it but never knew what it was . A fella once told me that the only cherry that was usable for stocks grows in Pennsylvania . Not being one that always conforms I cut up a storm damages tree in the back field and got the stock you see in my avatar . The target behind it was shot with the ball ammo that's in the can in the rifle you see .

Cherry is pretty bland for the most part , the last time I had the sawyer cut as close to quarter sawn as he could . The next time I find a decent size log I think I'll have him cut a little more plank side and look for figure .


Oh and Duke !!!! what are you getting yourself into now ?? :roll::-D

Jack

[felix]

Walnut and cherry will get greasy spots throughout the wood when they are grown on low drainage soils. So, your best wood will invariably come from trees grown on slopes when the soil is sorta' tight. That is why PA and WV commercial wood would be excellent cherry. Always be leary of cherry grown on flat ground unless the soil is somewhat sandy. ... felix

[geargnasher]

My favorites are wild, black cherry (think tigerstripe maple with a translucent orange metallic finish) and mesquite. I've made three rifle stocks from native cherry cut from my property, (first one when I was ten, last one about five years ago), two from local, wild black walnut, mesquite is reserved for pistol stocks because I only have hand tools to work the stuff and it will make you pull your hair out sharpening chisels, spokeshaves, drawknives, and rasps. Pretty tough on checkering tools, too.

Gear

[Molly]

... (think tigerstripe maple with a translucent orange metallic finish) ...Gear

Nice thread fellows, but the quote above reminded me of something I've wondered about fro years: Can anyone tell me what causes the grain structure in fiddleback or tigerstripe wood?

[geargnasher]

I don't know, Molly. I've wondered the same thing myself. You can see the iridescent stripes clearly in the raw wood.

The Ruger stocks are native mesquite root a friend of mine dug up years ago, I used it to extend the less than adequate grip frame. That stuff is HARD! The RH stock is pinned to the maple extension internally and the left side is glued so they can be removed normally using the factory grip frame alignment roll pin. Zero modifications to the frame.

Two Swedish Mausers, the unscoped one I finished when I was twelve, the other I did about five ago, first major checkering project I tried. The Glenfield .22 was the first stock I ever made (10 yrs old) really shows the tiger-stripe and figure that Texas Hill country black cherry can have. Believe it or not, the stock on the unscoped Swede is made from the same tree as the .22, but one section up. That tree was almost two feet in diameter three feet up and had a solid heart, very rare since most of them are rotten in the middle and have racoons living in them.

None of these have any stain on them at all, just Tru-Oil or Watco teak oil. The scoped Swede has a satin wax finish over teak oil but I wiped it with an oilcloth for the pic. The pistol stocks are just teak oil for now, not sure if I'm going to checker it or not.

Gear

[Molly]

I don't know, Molly. I've wondered the same thing myself. You can see the iridescent stripes clearly in the raw wood. ... Gear

Yeah, there's no question that it's real, but WHAT CAUSES IT?

You know, my father-in-law (may he rest in peace) was an old hillbilly (just like me) who worked in a lumber mill, and heated his home with wood. He kept a big pile of lumber yard scraps in his back yard to feed the stoves with. We went in for a visit one time, and darned if he didn't have a ten foot high pile of the most beautiful, dense grain curly maple you ever saw, all cut up into little slabs about a foot long by an inch thick and six inches deep. I nearly choked! I asked him why he cut it up like that, and he said that it was a convenient size for tossing in the fireplace or the stove.

I told him that he'd just cut up several thousand dollars worth of prime gunstock wood, and he just laughed. He said that wood like that was worthless, because "You can't use it for guns, nor nothing else, cause it just warps like h*ll! It'll even pull the nails out if you try to build a floor or a wall with it."

I just chucked a few slabs in the trunk to use as pistol grips, and told him I'd pay good hard cash for any more wood he ever saw like that, if it wasn't cut up so much. But he never mentioned it again.

[geargnasher]

Molly, I was just saying it isn't an effect caused solely by the finish, as Snell's laws of refraction can bring out things beneath a clear finish that can't otherwise be seen with only air as a medium of refraction. The part that I really puzzle over is the very fine "fishscale" pattern often seen on maple and cherry, some areas look like clear flecs 1/8" deep in the wood, but are on the surface.

I'll vouch for some strains of maple warping to buggary and back again, but it does settle down after a while if it is allowed to cure for a year or more after each cut (cut log, cure. rough saw, kiln dry, store in a dry barn for a year. Rip, plane, cut to length, back in the barn for a year. Cut profile, do a series of days in the sun, days in the shade until it quits bowing, then start your inletting/shaping.). It's a wonder anyone was able to make a six-foot Kentucky Rifle stock out of it without bowing the barrel, but some species are less prone to the squirrely warpage.

Gear

[Jack Stanley]

Walnut and cherry will get greasy spots throughout the wood when they are grown on low drainage soils. So, your best wood will invariably come from trees grown on slopes when the soil is sorta' tight. That is why PA and WV commercial wood would be excellent cherry. Always be leary of cherry grown on flat ground unless the soil is somewhat sandy. ... felix

Thank you for that tidbit Felix . My property is rolling hills and the front is higher . In some places the topsoil is two feet thick but much farther down than that we get a loam with a little clay not enough to be good road gravel though . I don't know that cherry roots get below that into the sand . Trees toward the back tend to invite big black ants that eat the center out but I see this happen anywhere on the property . Once I get the storm damage cleaned up I have a couple ash trees that the Emerald ash borer killed I will drop them and made boards out of them .


Molly , I was told that the fiddleback tends to come from trees that are grown in a windy area and typically a north slope of a hill . Not all trees in that location have it so it is thought to be a genetic trait . The iridescent coloring I hear comes more from the minerals in the soil such as copper and zinc . My M1 that has the black walnut stock has both fiddleback and those stripes along with a striking grain . I asked the man who fit the wood and that's what I got from him I don't know his qualifications other than he really knows how to fit and finish wood .

A neighbor has a couple trees the storm took down , I think after deer season I'll ask if I can try to recover the wood there . Might be a nice cherry log and a piece of oak in the pile otherwise it's just a pile of firewood .

Jack

[Just Duke]

These folks grow their own cherry for their furniture line.
http://www.hardenlumber.com/default.aspx Their in NY.

http://www.hardenfurniture.com/Search.aspx?searchtext=cherry

[waksupi]

It's a wonder anyone was able to make a six-foot Kentucky Rifle stock out of it without bowing the barrel, but some species are less prone to the squirrely warpage.

Gear

The reason it isn't a big problem on a long rifle, is there just isn't much wood left out there. On a properly shaped rifle, the barrel is supporting the wood, rather than vice versa. The top edges are nearly paper thin, and if the ramrod channel is taken up to where it should be, you have a stock that must be handled very carefully when the barrel isn't in, to avoid breaking it.

[Molly]

... Molly , I was told that the fiddleback tends to come from trees that are grown in a windy area and typically a north slope of a hill . Not all trees in that location have it so it is thought to be a genetic trait . ...Jack

Well, I've been told the "windy" explanation too, but I don't think it holds much water. One side of a tree can be plain, and the other side be curly. Or you can get both plain and curly in the same plank. And you can get curly from down in the valley too. I did a web search on it, and about half the responses gave the 'windy' explanation, and the other half just said the reason was not known.

[gnoahhh]

I don't know what causes it but I love fiddleback figure in any species of wood.

Cherry is my all time favorite. If you start with a blank that is quartersawn you will likely get medullary rays (sometimes called "robin's tracks") showing. That too adds to the subtle beauty of cherry. Could be the "scaly" figure noted by a previous poster. Granted, cherry is usually lacking in figure but my-oh-my does it ever develop a pretty reddish-brown patina as it ages.

In rare instances you can find curly cherry. I found a stash of that recently and built a stunning formal dining room table for a client. The curl just pops out. I saved a chunk for my next project- probably a .60 cal Jaeger flinter.

[Jack Stanley]

Molly , I found a very small amount of fiddleback in the bottom of a "crotch" that was on one of the planks I had . I sent enough of what I thought was sound enough for a stock to Wenigs but they cut about three inches of it out of the blank so I guess it wasn't sound enough for their likeing .

Windy or genetics .... I don't know I've never opened up a walnut log and of the cherry I've had sawn , I've never seen enough to make a complete rifle stock . It would just be my luck when I cut these open I'll find one that has fiddle back all through it . I'll then get all drooling and have them cut for blanks and not have enough for the other project I have planned .

Jack

[shooter93]

While it may seem strange in this day and age the simple truth is Botany has no real explanation for the highly figured maple, tiger, curly etc which are generally synonomous. It isn't stress grain like root junctures or crotches and it's too even for insects etc. One theory believes it has a lot to do with temperature....low temps. This may well be a good part of it as a lot of figured maple comes from the far Northeast and Minnesota. We have a fair amount in Pa and the best trees seem to come from the valley side of the mountsins that get almost no winter sun which stay colder longer. You can also get fiddleback in Bastogne walnut.

[shooter93]

Here's a couple pics if you're interested.
Fiddleback Bastogne
http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b254/shooter93/93a.jpg
Feather Crotch Black walnut
http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b254/shooter93/nola2.jpg
A flaoted full stock in English walnut
http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b254/shooter93/65.jpg
2 piece English Walnut
http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b254/shooter93/swift.jpg
And a 22 I did for my wife in Sunburst american walnut
http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b254/shooter93/collens22.jpg
The sunburst actually has a color range from light to dark through it that doesn't show all that well in the pic.

[Molly]

... It isn't stress grain like root junctures or crotches and it's too even for insects etc. One theory believes it has a lot to do with temperature....low temps. ...

I hadn't heard that explanation before. If so, I wonder why the same temperature doesn't affect the entire tree the same way. I could see why it might not affect softwoods like cherry, but why doesn't it seem to affect other hardwoods too? Oak especially should show a lot. It's harder than maple, and should be even more spectacular.

The only thing I know for sure is that I don't know nuthing!

[geargnasher]

BS. Cherry is not a softwood, at least not the native American stuff. Even the Brazilian and other tropical varieties with plainer grain are pretty hard, although the grain is fine enough to work like a medium softwood. If you want I'll send you a small chunk for the cost of postage and you can make some pistol stocks out of it, you'll see what I mean about hard, makes black walnut look like pine.

It routinely gets to be 105* here in the Summer for weeks on end, and we get an inch or two of snow about every ten-15 years so I don't think cold temps have anything to do with it the figuring you can see in the pics I posted.

Gear

[Just Duke]

BS. Cherry is not a softwood, at least not the native American stuff. Even the Brazilian and other tropical varieties with plainer grain are pretty hard, although the grain is fine enough to work like a medium softwood. If you want I'll send you a small chunk for the cost of postage and you can make some pistol stocks out of it, you'll see what I mean about hard, makes black walnut look like pine.

It routinely gets to be 105* here in the Summer for weeks on end, and we get an inch or two of snow about every ten-15 years so I don't think cold temps have anything to do with it the figuring you can see in the pics I posted.

Gear


Correct. :grin:
All Desciduous trees and hardwood
All Coniferous tree are soft wood

[Just Duke]

Here's a couple pics if you're interested.
Fiddleback Bastogne
http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b254/shooter93/93a.jpg
Feather Crotch Black walnut
http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b254/shooter93/nola2.jpg
A flaoted full stock in English walnut
http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b254/shooter93/65.jpg
2 piece English Walnut
http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b254/shooter93/swift.jpg
And a 22 I did for my wife in Sunburst american walnut
http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b254/shooter93/collens22.jpg
The sunburst actually has a color range from light to dark through it that doesn't show all that well in the pic.

Sir, did you make these stocks and do you still make them?

[Molly]

BS. Cherry is not a softwood, at least not the native American stuff. Even the Brazilian and other tropical varieties with plainer grain are pretty hard, although the grain is fine enough to work like a medium softwood. If you want I'll send you a small chunk for the cost of postage and you can make some pistol stocks out of it, you'll see what I mean about hard, makes black walnut look like pine.

It routinely gets to be 105* here in the Summer for weeks on end, and we get an inch or two of snow about every ten-15 years so I don't think cold temps have anything to do with it the figuring you can see in the pics I posted.

Gear

OK Gear, it's just my ignorance showing. I was remembering how the ladies in the family used to coddle their cherry furniture, "because it's a soft wood". But it's not the first time I learned something new on this forum. (BG)
Molly

[geargnasher]

Finally looked at the photo links, that's some nice work there, Shooter93.

Gear

[shooter93]

Duke......I only do part of the work guys, my good friend ,and as you can see very accomplished Gunmaker, does the bulk of it so give him the credit. he also does all the metal work and I generally rust blue. There is a lot of small detail special work on all of those. I keep coming up with "schemes" and Teddy keeps coming up with solutions. He is an exceptionaly gifted young man who rivals any builder in the country. It's a long story how we ended up with the working relationship we have. I did a ton of stuff for him and now he builds my guns....works for me...lol.
Gearnasher......I didn't mean temps effect all hard woods just that one theory for the fiddleback in Maple is caused by temps. I wouldn't say it's everything but as I said it appears the largest quanity of figured Maple comes from the coldest areas. Noone has ever come up with a completely definitive reason for curly Maple.

[Wayne Smith]

Walnut and cherry will get greasy spots throughout the wood when they are grown on low drainage soils. So, your best wood will invariably come from trees grown on slopes when the soil is sorta' tight. That is why PA and WV commercial wood would be excellent cherry. Always be leary of cherry grown on flat ground unless the soil is somewhat sandy. ... felix

And cherry grown with feet wet, like around here, has a very strong tendency to check along growth rings. Kinda like swamp ash (Black Ash) that is used to make baskets.

[Jack Stanley]

Shooter , those are some very fine examples of excellent wood and workmanship .


While on the subject of hard or soft woods . While on the project of getting a cherry stock on a Garand I thought it would be nice to have one made from one of the butternut trees here . I was detered by the same fella who told me about cherry as gunstock material , he said that butternut was about as soft as pine and might not be a good idea .

Jack

[SPRINGFIELDM141972]

I remember, Mr. Lax, my shop teacher in high school telling us about the old timers wrapping chains around the trunks of walnut trees to induce figureing in the wood. I recall he said they would loosen the chain every couple of years to keep the tree from growing around the chain and burying it. I don't know if it worked or if it ever was a common practice, but I do know that from time to time loggers will run across a few walnut trees on the same hillside with a buried chain wrapped around the "old growth" trees. Maybe the guy who did it died before he could harvest the logs.

I can not offer any evidence to the varacity of Mr. Lax's claim. He was know to tell a few stories.

I do know this doesn't help with the question at hand, but I like the story and thought I would share.

Regards,
Everett

[Just Duke]

Duke......I only do part of the work guys, my good friend ,and as you can see very accomplished Gunmaker, does the bulk of it so give him the credit. he also does all the metal work and I generally rust blue. There is a lot of small detail special work on all of those. I keep coming up with "schemes" and Teddy keeps coming up with solutions. He is an exceptionaly gifted young man who rivals any builder in the country. It's a long story how we ended up with the working relationship we have. I did a ton of stuff for him and now he builds my guns....works for me...lol.
Gearnasher......I didn't mean temps effect all hard woods just that one theory for the fiddleback in Maple is caused by temps. I wouldn't say it's everything but as I said it appears the largest quanity of figured Maple comes from the coldest areas. Noone has ever come up with a completely definitive reason for curly Maple.

Thanks Shooter 93. I dable a little in wood myself.