Please help me find out if this ammo I've got is worth anything.

[jwray13]

First, hello, this is my first post. I have been searching the internet for an hour or so, and I cannot find this box of shells.

A little backstory...I got a call from my mother the other day, saying that she was going through some old stuff and found a case of my grandfather's ammo. She sent me a picture and asked if it might be worth anything. I didn't think I'd have much trouble finding out for her, but I cannot find this stuff anywhere. That brings me to this forum. You have a section called military rifles, so I figure that you guys would probably know more about it than most, so here I am.

The image is posted below, and anything I say about it will just be a repeat of what you can read from the box. I will say that my grandfather had an M1 and fought in WWII or Korea (I'm embarrassed to say that I do not know which). I always assumed that it was his war rifle, but maybe not.

http://i114.photobucket.com/albums/n263/beccabrown34/PB070267.jpg

Anyway, could someone please let me know where to point me to get info about this ammo? There is an entire case of it, and I'd like to know if it's worth anything.

Thanks in advance! Any help is appreciated.

[Frank46]

I have a box of 5o cartridges dated 1944 for the M1 carbine. Haven't shot them as I figure someday they will be worth something. I just noticed that yours are steel cased. Have never seen these before. Since you have a case on your hands you may want to google cartridge collectors and contact a few just to see what they may be worth. Couldn't hurt and may bring in some $$$. Frank

[Hardcast416taylor]

Check the cartridge headstamp for the year of manfacture, this will help someone determine a value better.Robert

[WILCO]

http://oldguns.net/q&a2_07.htm :

# 12425 - Steel Case .30 Carbine Ammunition
2/3/2007
Ian


As is often the case this question stems from a heated discussion amongst some gun buff friends and I. The discussion centered on the suitability of the new Wolf steel cased M1 carbine ammo for our carbines. I maintain steel cased .30 carbine ammo was common during WW II and even have an uncle with at least one ammo can of steel cased (I think) .30 Carbine ammo from the early '50's. They, of course, say the Wolf ammo is the first steel cased Carbine ammo produced.

I was looking at your site hoping to find evidence of steel cased Carbine ammo, but unfortunately struck out. So the question is: Was steel cased Carbine ammo produced in the WW II and/or Korean War eras? If so, is the steel cased (I think) ammo my uncle has worth anything more than blasting ammo? If I recall correctly it is LC 52.

Answer:
Ian- The definitive study on U.S. Military small Arms Ammunition, Volume 2 by Hackley, Woodin & Scranton has the following on WW2 steel cased carbine ammunition, which is worth quoting. Besides the period they discuss, there was a lot of work with steel-cased ammo around 1952-56 when it reached significant production at Frankford Arsenal.

QUOTE
In 1943, an Evansville Ordnance Plant recommendation to produce the Cal. .30 Carbine cartridge with steel case was approved and by May of that year Evansville had produced some handmade sample steel cases, using the same finish as the Cal. .45 steel case production. Experimental fabrication of steel-cased carbine ammunition had already taken place at the other contract plants as early as 1942. In fact, Kings Mills Ordnance Plant had produced about 95,000 steel-cased .30 Carbine Ball Ml cartridges during December 1942, but was forced to continue with brass case production because of steel manufacturing problems. Early in 1943 all .30 Carbine steel case development was transferred from Kings Mills to Lake City. Western Cartridge Co. concentrated their steel case development on a nickel-plated finish during the 1942-1943 period; the first lot of 2,000 rounds was completed during July 1942. Steel-cased cartridges examined have included the following: E C 43 (zinc-cronak finish), P C 42 (zinc-cronak finish), WCC 42 (nickel- and copper-plated and zinc-treated finishes), wee 43 (lead-plated, zinc-cronak and lacquered), and W.R.A. 42 (zinc-cronak and copper-plated finishes). During August 1943 the Office of the Chief of Ordnance ordered Lake City Ordnance Plant to convert from brass- to steel-cased carbine production as soon as possible because of a copper shortage. By November the shortage had eased enough to allow reconversion of these lines back to brass.

The pilot lot of Evansville steel-case production was completed in September 1943 (Lot E-S-25607- X) and was forwarded to Aberdeen Proving Ground for comparison tests with brass-cased ammunition. It was subjected to a complete functioning test in which 24,000 rounds of steel-cased ammunition were expended. The total malfunctions and case casualties compared very favorably with the control brass-cased cartridges. In November 1943 the Ordnance Committee recommended that steel-cased carbine ammunition be subjected to complete service board tests. The results of these tests prompted the Chief of Army Ground Forces to conclude that steel cases were generally acceptable; however, it was recommended that carbine ammunition be assembled with brass cases so long as brass was available. The U.S. Marine Corps expended 500,000 rounds of Evansville steel-cased carbine ammunition in training and concluded it was a satisfactory substitute for brass-cased rounds. On October 11, 1945, the Ordnance Committee approved the issue of steel-cased carbine ball cartridges for training use. END QUOTE
Hope that helps. John Spangler

[WILCO]

http://www.amazon.com/History-Modern-U-S-Small-Ammunition/dp/1577470338

A History of Modern U.S. Small Arms Ammunition

[WILCO]

http://cartridgecollectors.org/

http://www.oldammo.com/

http://www.hayesotoupalik.com/U.S.%20Military%20Ammunition.htm

[WILCO]

I will say that my grandfather had an M1 and fought in WWII or Korea I always assumed that it was his war rifle, but maybe not.


M1 Garand and M1 30 Cal. Carbine are two different rifles:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N39UmNGYDuc&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EAasLsrKB-8&feature=related

Your ammo is for the M1 30 Cal. Carbine.

[Bret4207]

To a collector the box may be worth more than the ammo. Be extremely careful opening it. To a reenactor or collector that stuff may be worth some dollars.

[DIRT Farmer]

jwray13, there are a lot of "lunch box" examples of Evansville production around here, I have a jar of EC (Evansville Chrysler) cases from the inital disc stampings to finished cases. I have made some other intersting finds, I hate to think that a lot of our history has been or will be thrown away as people have died.
It is not to late to find out about your grandfathers service, If you can get his service number, contact your local vetrans service officer. My Dad said he was behind the shooting and in front of the saluting and stuck to that story. My sons started looking at his service history and when info started coming out, said Grandpa was a hero. He never claimed the awards that he had earned, including a Presidential ciation. Most of the Greatest Generation just wanted to get the job done and go home.