Buckshot
11-07-2010, 03:39 AM
............I've been using the Mag-Tech (CBC) brass 24ga shotshells without any problems (other then they hold so much powder :-)). However a couple years back when Jamison & Ten-X came out with .577 Snider and 577-450 brass I bought some through a group buy done on the British & Militaria board. For some reason I got the 577 Snider 'Bug' the other day and figured I might as well try out some of the Jamison .577 brass.
This brass is really heavy stuff and almost looks like it was cast vs being drawn. The casewalls are very heavy around the base which is actually a very good thing as it uses up powder space. However the thick brass carries up even into the 'neck' area of the straight walled case. It's over 0.020" thick which is healthy. Other then there possibly being an issue with obturation in such a low pressure cartridge I didn't think there'd be a problem chambering it.
There were 2 problems to deal with right up front however.
http://www.fototime.com/68103E054946E90/standard.jpg
The first was the large brass ridges on the inside as well as the outside of the casemouth. This is a poor photo, sorry. I tried blowing it up to show the ridge as it's simply plain as day, holding the case in your hand. In the photo what looks to be a darkish line around the casemouth is the external ridge of brass. Inside it's just as bad, and the casemouths obviously hadn't been finish turned after drawing. I have a large deburring tool from RCBs that goes to .60 cal (like the Wilson tool) but it's 60º internal angle is too steep for this. There is such a large ridge (can't call it a burr!) that for it to be rmoved with the tool the mouth would almost have to be skived down to a knife edge.
I figured I'd try the Shaviv deburing tool and it worked like a champ. The doglegged cutter will lay almost parallel and removed the ridge perfectly. The outside however was another deal as the RCBS tool STILL wasn't large enough and the Shaviv wouldn't have been optimum. Believe it or not I actually used a jeweler's file to do 5 of'em before I got fed up and decided to make an external deburing dealie bob. I'll get to that in a minute.
The second problem is that the Jamison brass is very bottle necked, and it's ID is .560" something. They were using P53 Enfield barrels for the Sniders, and they had progressive depth grooves. At the breech you'd need a .618" slug to seal, but of course they used a HB Minie' to expand and seal. Even with a (ideally) .577" bore the British still used a .564" OD Minie' IIRC, and the cartridge was the wrapped brass foil Boxer case, so all the measurements weren't to what SAMMI or CIP would have liked to have seen!
http://www.fototime.com/218D32F529AB41C/standard.jpg
The easiest thing to make first was a replacement for the expander Lee supplies in their 577 Snider dieset. The Lee unit is on the left. It expandes the case to .580" which is still too small, it's too short and has a very abrupt leade. I made up a replacement (on the right) and to take replaceable 'M' type expanders. I don't know what's up with the photo but both those expanders look like they're bowed, but they're not:veryconfu Anyway the left case is the 'as received Jamison (and the Ten-X are the same) case. If you look closely you should be able to see the brass ridge around the casemouth? I can, but then again I KNOW it 's there!
The right case is one of the 5 I filed and used the Shaviv on and then sent up up over my new mo-betta case expander. The casemouth ID is now .596". So now it was time to deal with that darn brass ridge on the outside of the casemouth!
http://www.fototime.com/CE15995FD55CC09/standard.jpghttp://www.fototime.com/1AC67AAF3A5C43D/standard.jpg
Usually the first step for most anything is to face it off, so here it is. I used good ole 1020 for the body. On the right we're about ready to commit mayhem on that poor piece of hot rolled. BTW, that 5/8" TiAIN coated 5 flute carbide endmill (Melin) was one of 12 (used) I got off E-Bay for $23! that was $17 + $6 shipping. They were described as used, some had chips on some flutes some not, some could have chipped flute points. Of the 12 endmills 3 were scrap as far as being useable for endmills. Four had perfect flutes but a one or 2 tiny chipped points, 3 were perfect in all respects and the remaining pair had prefect ends but a couple chips on a flute or 2. For a home shop guy I got 3 like new, and 6 very useable. Not bad!
http://www.fototime.com/42BBED69A371D40/standard.jpghttp://www.fototime.com/E29B97B711D6935/standard.jpg
Left, milling done. I had some holes to D&T but didn't get photos of that messing around. Since this tool is hand held and had to remove some fairl hefty brass I figured Knurling would be good.
http://www.fototime.com/664804EC647A8FA/standard.jpghttp://www.fototime.com/46793623069EF7B/standard.jpg
I just love that stuff! And on the right, here it is. The spindle the casemouth fits over is replaceable with a 1/4" shaft setscrew retained. The cutter is simply 3/16" W-1 hardened file hard and on the spindle's centerline. Since we're cutting brass the cutter only needs a sharp end with no negative clearance. The round cutter is simply ground to a flat half it's OD with a 1-1/2º taper angle from top to bottom. A flat is ground for the retaining setscrew to bear against. Works like a champ, but not long after it was done I realized I could have made one a LOT simpler!!!
.............Buckshot
This brass is really heavy stuff and almost looks like it was cast vs being drawn. The casewalls are very heavy around the base which is actually a very good thing as it uses up powder space. However the thick brass carries up even into the 'neck' area of the straight walled case. It's over 0.020" thick which is healthy. Other then there possibly being an issue with obturation in such a low pressure cartridge I didn't think there'd be a problem chambering it.
There were 2 problems to deal with right up front however.
http://www.fototime.com/68103E054946E90/standard.jpg
The first was the large brass ridges on the inside as well as the outside of the casemouth. This is a poor photo, sorry. I tried blowing it up to show the ridge as it's simply plain as day, holding the case in your hand. In the photo what looks to be a darkish line around the casemouth is the external ridge of brass. Inside it's just as bad, and the casemouths obviously hadn't been finish turned after drawing. I have a large deburring tool from RCBs that goes to .60 cal (like the Wilson tool) but it's 60º internal angle is too steep for this. There is such a large ridge (can't call it a burr!) that for it to be rmoved with the tool the mouth would almost have to be skived down to a knife edge.
I figured I'd try the Shaviv deburing tool and it worked like a champ. The doglegged cutter will lay almost parallel and removed the ridge perfectly. The outside however was another deal as the RCBS tool STILL wasn't large enough and the Shaviv wouldn't have been optimum. Believe it or not I actually used a jeweler's file to do 5 of'em before I got fed up and decided to make an external deburing dealie bob. I'll get to that in a minute.
The second problem is that the Jamison brass is very bottle necked, and it's ID is .560" something. They were using P53 Enfield barrels for the Sniders, and they had progressive depth grooves. At the breech you'd need a .618" slug to seal, but of course they used a HB Minie' to expand and seal. Even with a (ideally) .577" bore the British still used a .564" OD Minie' IIRC, and the cartridge was the wrapped brass foil Boxer case, so all the measurements weren't to what SAMMI or CIP would have liked to have seen!
http://www.fototime.com/218D32F529AB41C/standard.jpg
The easiest thing to make first was a replacement for the expander Lee supplies in their 577 Snider dieset. The Lee unit is on the left. It expandes the case to .580" which is still too small, it's too short and has a very abrupt leade. I made up a replacement (on the right) and to take replaceable 'M' type expanders. I don't know what's up with the photo but both those expanders look like they're bowed, but they're not:veryconfu Anyway the left case is the 'as received Jamison (and the Ten-X are the same) case. If you look closely you should be able to see the brass ridge around the casemouth? I can, but then again I KNOW it 's there!
The right case is one of the 5 I filed and used the Shaviv on and then sent up up over my new mo-betta case expander. The casemouth ID is now .596". So now it was time to deal with that darn brass ridge on the outside of the casemouth!
http://www.fototime.com/CE15995FD55CC09/standard.jpghttp://www.fototime.com/1AC67AAF3A5C43D/standard.jpg
Usually the first step for most anything is to face it off, so here it is. I used good ole 1020 for the body. On the right we're about ready to commit mayhem on that poor piece of hot rolled. BTW, that 5/8" TiAIN coated 5 flute carbide endmill (Melin) was one of 12 (used) I got off E-Bay for $23! that was $17 + $6 shipping. They were described as used, some had chips on some flutes some not, some could have chipped flute points. Of the 12 endmills 3 were scrap as far as being useable for endmills. Four had perfect flutes but a one or 2 tiny chipped points, 3 were perfect in all respects and the remaining pair had prefect ends but a couple chips on a flute or 2. For a home shop guy I got 3 like new, and 6 very useable. Not bad!
http://www.fototime.com/42BBED69A371D40/standard.jpghttp://www.fototime.com/E29B97B711D6935/standard.jpg
Left, milling done. I had some holes to D&T but didn't get photos of that messing around. Since this tool is hand held and had to remove some fairl hefty brass I figured Knurling would be good.
http://www.fototime.com/664804EC647A8FA/standard.jpghttp://www.fototime.com/46793623069EF7B/standard.jpg
I just love that stuff! And on the right, here it is. The spindle the casemouth fits over is replaceable with a 1/4" shaft setscrew retained. The cutter is simply 3/16" W-1 hardened file hard and on the spindle's centerline. Since we're cutting brass the cutter only needs a sharp end with no negative clearance. The round cutter is simply ground to a flat half it's OD with a 1-1/2º taper angle from top to bottom. A flat is ground for the retaining setscrew to bear against. Works like a champ, but not long after it was done I realized I could have made one a LOT simpler!!!
.............Buckshot