This Ever Happened to You?

[x101airborne]

Ok, so I was loading some experimental 30-30 loads with the lyman 311466 "bumped" and h4895 powder. I started at 26.0gr, and at 25 yards, a one hole 4 shot group! Tried some other things and went through all my primed cases. Went to size and prime another batch, and discovered the first ones were primed with Winchester LP standard / magnum. Reprimed all the brass this time with winchester LR standard and accuracy went all to pot! While i lucked into the discovery, does this happen often with cast boolits? My accurate load is rather aneamic, but a great plinker load. i have not chrony'd it yet. Any bet what the speed is? is the primer mistake why when i tell one of them "old coots" Im casting and they just smile? Well, seccret's out boys, Im tellin it from the mountain!

[Bass Ackward]

While i lucked into the discovery, does this happen often with cast boolits? My accurate load is rather aneamic, but a great plinker load. i have not chrony'd it yet. Any bet what the speed is? is the primer mistake why when i tell one of them "old coots" Im casting and they just smile? Well, seccret's out boys, Im tellin it from the mountain!


Yep. All the time.

[runfiverun]

under 40k lp is my go to primer.
especially with pistol type charges.
ignition does make a difference.

[HangFireW8]

One old timer's trick, once you've narrowed down a load as accurate as you can, just try it a bunch more times with every different primer you can.

If you know you're saving this until the end, you can eliminate one variable up front, and then play with that variable when you've got the rest under control.

[crabo]

Ok, so I was loading some experimental 30-30 loads with the lyman 311466 "bumped" and h4895 powder. I started at 26.0gr, and at 25 yards, a one hole 4 shot group! Tried some other things and went through all my primed cases. Went to size and prime another batch, and discovered the first ones were primed with Winchester LP standard / magnum. Reprimed all the brass this time with winchester LR standard and accuracy went all to pot! While i lucked into the discovery, does this happen often with cast boolits? My accurate load is rather aneamic, but a great plinker load. i have not chrony'd it yet. Any bet what the speed is? is the primer mistake why when i tell one of them "old coots" Im casting and they just smile? Well, seccret's out boys, Im tellin it from the mountain!

Here's one of my results with a 45/70 GG. Everything was the same except for the primer.

[TCLouis]

A lot of my cast boolit loads are Large Pistol primed in fact most of them are.

Only thing I am using Large Rifle primers in is the 7mm Mag and that is just to use up the CCIs I had to buy during the "shortage".
I plan to do an accuracy test comparing LR LP in the 7 MM after the deer season is over.

[x101airborne]

i am very pleased with the accuracy, but am concerned the round nose will not be that effective on game at such a low velocity. I would like to have an impact velocity at 150 yards, my personal practical limit scoped, around 1800 fps. my boolits are 14.5 bhn. I wish i could figure out what makes groups open up from here on out. Like i said too, i have not chrony'd the load yet, so i may be supprised. Also, this is the first powder i have tried. i have tried around 5 different seating lengths and maybe 3 different levels of crimp, nothing being better than the origional.

[44man]

Whew!, now you fellas understand my primer stance with revolvers.
See how a little change in a primer can ruin groups?
Primers are NOT the same!

[Mavrick]

Cast boolits are softer, so tend to react more to pressure change(he said, stating the obvious) Most of my loads are based on CCI, mostly 200s, primers. As I go through loads, I substitute other primers. ALMOST all my loads are over a chronograph. If the charges are real light, as in quite fast pistol powders,ie Red Dot, 700x, even Unique or Green Dot, my go-to is the RP 9 1/2 which, in the lot I have, is a bunch lighter. It usually tightens the group.
An LP primer should be just a little bit lighter than THAT.
Tests with pistol primers probably should be tried from time to time, and may even become the primer to use. Care should be exercised to not use them in the upper pressure loads, say when higher velocities are reached with, ie 4227, 4198, or maybe 3031.
I haven't done a lot with LP primers, but will now put it on my "to do-soon" list.
It seems that the effect should be most apparent with softer boolits, too.
Food for thought.
Have fun,
Gene

[jonk]

Here's one of my results with a 45/70 GG. Everything was the same except for the primer.
Interesting that the benchrest primer did significantly poorer than the standard.

[felix]

Yeah, BR is equivalent to "very close tolerance" and that is about all. In the chemistry field, BR would be equivalent to lab grade. ... felix

[geargnasher]

It wasn't inconsistency in primer makeup that blew Crabo's group, it was inconsistency in ignition and initial pressure build (i.e. launch) due to the particular way the BR primers were interacting with the rest of the mix. The WW primers happened to have just the right amount of fire to start a more consistent burn.

Imagine it like setting the timing on an older engine, too much advance or retard, or the wrong advance curve in the centrifugal weights, springs, or vacuum modulator and the engine will run poorly. Ignition in a cartridge is no different.

Gear

[x101airborne]

Well, i went through about ten different charges of four powders, four different seating depths, three different crimps, two different primers, two different neck tensions, and headspacing both on the shoulder and the rim. Nothing has worked as well as the origional load and group. I guess sometimes you just get lucky. The official three shot group at 25 yards is .44 inches. The load im using is winchester brass .2035", winchester lp primers, 26.0 gr H4895, Lyman 311466 155 gr seated to the second lube groove. Still havent gotten out the chrony, but guess now it doesnt matter what the speed is.

[44man]

Yeah, BR is equivalent to "very close tolerance" and that is about all. In the chemistry field, BR would be equivalent to lab grade. ... felix
This is so true. Nothing to do with mix, heat or pressures, just how consistent each primer is to the next.
Nothing says they will correct other problems.

[x101airborne]

44man, your wisdom shows through once again! i know i am new to the cast scene, but i am sooo excited. i just wish I had more of your kind around to show me the ropes and slap me in the back of the neck every once in a while. i would like to hear your opinions on how to get my redhawk 44 to shoot REALLY good.

[44man]

44man, your wisdom shows through once again! i know i am new to the cast scene, but i am sooo excited. i just wish I had more of your kind around to show me the ropes and slap me in the back of the neck every once in a while. i would like to hear your opinions on how to get my redhawk 44 to shoot REALLY good.
I used to buy a lot of both H110 and 296 long ago to find groups. We had a few RH's and had trouble with 296 in them. The gun seemed to come alive with H110.
Our BH's and SBH's shot better with 296, so did the S&W's.
If both have the same burn rates they had long ago, both are worth a side by side trial.
All the guns used the Fed 150 primer.
The gun is not picky about boolits but I would try .432". Check the throats and bore but most .44's seem to be OK.
The triggers are not great on the RH, they can be improved a little but try to stay away from a reduced weight spring. A little work on the sear surfaces can do a lot. A good lube there like Action Lube aids it.
The RH's are kind of grip sensitive and that is probably the worst thing about them. A change to a better grip can make them shoot better.
I can tell you the SRH is a far easier gun to make shoot groups, the SBH is next and the RH last, I attribute that to the grip angle mostly. A lighter mainspring can hurt groups too. (I put the SRH first because it is just built more accurate then the BH's. The SBH Hunter WITHOUT a Bisley is super.)
I have the same problem with a Bisley grip and can never shoot consistent groups with them, more bad ones then good ones.
Every one has different hands. I have the best luck with the old hog leg. I can shift my grip and still hit.
The worst was the S&W 29's, never put the gun down between shots or the next boolits will group somewhere else. You can go from 1/2", 50 meter groups to 10" by putting the gun down between shots.
It's funny but changing and testing different grips can turn a revolver into a jewel or a dog.
Test the RH by holding the grip very firmly so it can't change position for 5 shots, put it down, reload, pick it up and shoot 5 more and see if the POI changed.
Some say H110 and 296 are the same, they are but were not. Hodgdon got a different batch and burn rate then WW. Working loads with each never made them equal. It always seemed the color was different with H110 being a little grayer and WW darker. Maybe the deterrent coating was not the same.

[Char-Gar]

Just a couple of thought on the original post.

1. One four shot group at 25 yards tell little or nothing about the accuracy level of the load.
2. I don't know what "went to pot" means in terms of relative group size, so no comment on the change is possible.
3. I have never noticed a drastic change in group from primer make to primers make. Lest I be hoisted on my own petard, I would call drastic change as more than 25% increase in group size.

Best of luck in you casting and shooting.

[Frank]

Powder can vary even within a can. That's why it's good to shake the can before every use.

[x101airborne]

Just a couple of thought on the original post.

1. One four shot group at 25 yards tell little or nothing about the accuracy level of the load.
2. I don't know what "went to pot" means in terms of relative group size, so no comment on the change is possible.
3. I have never noticed a drastic change in group from primer make to primers make. Lest I be hoisted on my own petard, I would call drastic change as more than 25% increase in group size.

Best of luck in you casting and shooting.

Well, my friend.... Prepare for hoisting. i know i did not post all the group information, so my whoops. it was pretty windy here so that is why I was shooting at 25. I normally shoot at 50, then 100 yards. i was mainly looking for promising changes in my loads so i know what i need to do before shooting at 50. i have never seen groups get smaller the farther the shot was. Went to pot means from 1/2 inch to 4 inches or more. And just for clarification, i changed from lp to lr primers and that caused the accuracy to disappear. my shock was the reason i posted. i had never heard of that happening before now either, and of course it happens to me!