Mosin Nagant 91/30 reloading?

[buck1]

Well I have been playing with the Idea of getting one and found one that looked to be in good shape so I bought it.
I bought a coupple boxes of loaded ammo and took it to the range. It seemed to shoot well enugh. 1 hole at 25 yd and about 1" at 50. I cant see the sights too well with my old eyes so that seemed about the right sized group if not better than I thought.
So it should shoot well. I got home and cleaned it for days and days untill I got clean patches even after soaking. The rifleing is strong and the bore is very nice. But heres the rub I sluged it and came up with .3165 . Thats BIG for a .310 spec bore!!:killingpc:killingpc:killingpc

My plans were/are to make it in to a sporter for my youngest son for deer.
My concerns are :

Boxer primed brass is proving hard to find.
Is the .316 bore going to be trouble with .310 condums?
Will I be able to find a mold for it?? (I havent seen one yet)
Sizing recomendations?
Anyone load for these? Advice?
It did shoot factory ammo fine.
Thanks in advance...Buck

[Wayne Smith]

Lookfor molds for the 32-40 or 8mm and I'll bet you can find one you can use or size down slightly. As for condoms, the 303/7.7 Jap are .311. That's what I would use.

[runfiverun]

win makes brass and hornady makes 312 diameter jaxketed.
i'd go with a quicker powder.

as far as the mold. something in the 318 size is what you're looking for might have to go custom.
that's the rub with these rifles.
you spend 80 bucks for them, then spend 180 to get some ammo.

[RayinNH]

Lyman #314299 would probably work okay if it were an older one. If not quite large enough just "beagle" it...Ray

[markinalpine]

Quote: "Boxer primed brass is proving hard to find."
Look for Privi Partizan ammo. They make it with brass cases that are Boxer primed.
Good luck,
Mark [smilie=s:

[Buckshot]

...............Hornady offers a 160gr SP @ .312". You can also size down 8mm cast.

http://www.fototime.com/ADF9F422ACC2AA7/standard.jpg

The above (left boolit lube-sized .323") is a Lee GB I did a few years back for a 'Fat 8mm'. It weighs around 236 - 240grs. On the right is the same boolit after lube sizing to .325" and then being sent up through a Lee .314" die. Why, you ask? I had a M1909 Argentine Cavalry carbine with a .304" bore. If you'd bought 100 Lyman 314299's over several years you might find one or two that'd MAYBE, BARELY go that large.

It had a .314" groove and most 314299's would handle that. This was before all the big Lee group buy frenzy began, and with it over time several 'Fat 30' designs were promoted. In the meantime I really wanted to shoot the thing. So the radical downsizing I did was with the Lyman .323470, which is a 165gr RN Loverin. And a Loverin is perfect for mojo sizing down due to it's huge lube quantity and multiple narrow drive bands.

And in case you're wondering, the new .314" slugs sized down from the 8mm's shot just fine in the Argentine.

..............Buckshot

[HORNET]

I believe CBE in Australia makes several molds for .316 bores.

[buck1]

Thanks guys!! I was spooked about squeeeezing a 8mm down that far. But I see that lubeing it first gives it the needed stability to handle it.
I thought about reselling it and trying to find another but now I think it just may work out fine.

Thanks again for the great help!!!! Buck

[nicholst55]

Member Mike in CO sells brass, and he usually has Winchester brass for the Mosin in stock. I'm seriously considering a custom .318" GC bullet mold for my Mosins, and a Lee Enfield or two, that all have generous groove diameters.

[rhbrink]

Another problem is the dies that you buy are made to size the brass down for a .308 boolit. Lee will make a collet die, $60 don't know how long it takes. My RCBS dies came with two expanders the largest still isn't big enough. Redding makes a .284 neck sizing die that you can use bushings in for whatever size you need $75. Sure wish someone would make a full lenght size die set up for bushings for the 7.62 X 54R

Richard
Missourians for Mosins

[JIMinPHX]

I've been sizing at .3125 for a MN with a .312" groove diameter. That is pretty normal with them. Your .3165" is a little big, but not completely surprising. As was said before, you should be able to find some .32 boolits that will run up around that size.

I'd also look into getting a custom size expander plug made. You don't want to squeeze a .317" boolit into a .310" diameter case neck, unless you want to use a heal type boolit, & personally I'd stay away from that if at all possible.

You might want to check to be sure that the neck area in your chamber is large enough to accept a case loaded with a .317" boolit. You need the diameter of the boolit + twice the thickness of the neck brass + a little clearance. I don't remember what the clearance spec is, but I think that it's supposed to be somewhere around .002". You need to double check on that though, because the .002" is just off the top of my head & I don't know if that is max, min or target. A tight chamber neck can be a serious hazard.

My local gun shop sells primed Winchester brass for around $0.50 each. I think that the S&B ammo that Cabellas carries has Boxer brass too, but I'm not sure about that.

I've converted some Berdan brass in that caliber to take a Boxer primer, but I can't really say that it was worth the effort.

The MN is a good solid gun. When you get them cleaned up properly, they actually have very smooth actions. They can be very good shooters sometimes. There are some really rough ones out there though. A counter bored muzzle is usually (but not always) a good sign that the barrel is well worn.

[EMC45]

For jacketed I would go with a .311-.312 bullet, and IMR-4350 powder. For cast?.......Gonna have to experiment.

[Buckshot]

..............Yup, the only manufacturer who offers dies with an eye toward cast lead is RCBS and their 'Cowboy' series. Otherwise they all seem to make them to provide a death grip on a nominal jacketed bullet. My Lee 7.62x54R sizes the neck down to .304"!

http://www.fototime.com/76048B8345C2DA4/standard.jpg http://www.fototime.com/95847C932E75A34/standard.jpg

I finally got tired of the 'wasp waisted' appearance of the straight walled cases I reload for, and figured a replaceable insert type sizer was needed. I decided to start with my 40-65. Besides sizing the caseneck down too much, the worst part was they sized the entire case down too much. I shoot a .410" sized boolit. The die sized the caseneck down to .404" for about 3/4" long, and also touched 90% of the case. The empty case below is fired and unsized. I made the insert to size the caseneck to .408".

http://www.fototime.com/F8A71123107F86F/standard.jpghttp://www.fototime.com/57FDCC442C1911E/standard.jpg

I just used a Lee push through die blank for the body. For the inserts I used 5/8" 0-1 parted off to 5/8" long. Once the die body is made all I had to do then was to make the inserts. After the 40-65 the next up was the 38-55 which they seem to use 375 Winchester specs for and I use a .382" NOT a .375" boolit! The last one was for my 32-40 Scheutzen rifle. I figure the 5/8" OD for the inserts will handle up to 40 cal okay.

...............Buckshot

[rhbrink]

Buckshot I know where there is a 7.62 X 54R reamer don't know if it can be bought or borrowed but if a guy were to ream a die blank maybe just a tad short , still want to full length resize the brass without overworking the neck, and then ream and thread the upper part of the die for the Saeco bushings would that work? Bet you could sell a bunch of them there is getting to be a lot of Mosin owners around with the same problem. Sure would make these rifles a lot more cast boolit friendly.

Richard
Missourians for Mosins

[Larry Gibson]

Buck1

Yes, the Redding .284 Bushing die is kind of spendy at $75 but if you have several M/Ns as I do it more than pays for itself in short order. Since shortening that die 15+ years ago and using a bushing that sizes to .002" neck tension I have not lost a single case to incipient case head seperation. Nor have I had to anneal the necks because I no longer excessively work harden the case necks by over sizing.

I still load one box of Norma cases I got back in '68 for a grossly over size chambered Chicom M1944 (Type53) I got off a PAVN for a small expendature of 7.62 NATO. I currently also load for a 91/28, a 91/30 sniper and a Finn Sako M39. I have loaded for several others over the years. I have found it best to size cast bullets so when seated in 7.62x54R necks there is just minimal clearence to allow seating. As Buckshot has shown I have sized lubed and GC'd 8mm bullets down to .314, .316 and .318 for use in such over size bores if chambering can be done. In some oversized M/Ns the groove size is about the same diameter as the chamber neck so if adding the thickness of the case neck the bullet can not be sized to groove diameter, it will have to be smaller. A softer alloy and faster powder to "bump up" the bullet to groove diameter is then needed.

With jacketed bullets I find that the Hornady 150 gr .312 SPs will shoot very well or at least respectably in most M/Ns with decent bores. Really bad and pitted bores that are oversized can be poor shooters. The crowns on many are suspect but it sounds as if you have a shooter with your 91/30. I would suggest trying the 150 gr Hornady over 46 gr of H4895. This will run 2800+ fps out of your 91/30 and is very accurate in every M/N with a decent bore I've shot it in. I mostly use Norma cases but I also have some Winchester (Check made?) and some PVI. They all work very well. I've picked up 5 boxes of the Winchester 180 gr SPs at Big 5 for a reasonable price when on sale. The factory loads are very accurate and should run 2600+ fps out of your rifle. It makes excellent factory hunting loads and also is a good source of cases.

I've found the lee C312-185-2R and Lyman's 314299 to both be excellent bullets in the 7.62x54R. The 314299 over 30 -32 gr of 4895 with a 1/2 - 3/4 gr dacron filler is my most often used load. The 312-185-2R over 28.5 gr 4895 with the dacron filler of over 24 gr of 5744 is also a very good load. All these produce 1750 - 1850 fps.

Photo shows a couple of my 8mm bullets sized down to .314 for use in my Type 53. The 2nd photo shows the accuracy potential with these loads. I was working the zero and the last 10 shots (zeroed) are 9 Xs and one 10 just below the number 10. That rifle is the Sako M39. My M91/30 Sniper with the 3.5 PU scope does better, especially with 314299 giving 1 - 1.5" consistent 10 shot groups at 100 yards. My M91/28 (recieved from a VC after another "difficult negotiation"), even with a frosted bore and counter bored crown, gives satisfactory 3 moa groups at 100 yards with these loads.

Larry Gibson

[buck1]

Thats awsome info guys !! Thanks VEEEEEEERY MUCH!!

[Jon K]

NOE 316299.....Try this!!!

Jon