converting a para p16 40 s&w to 10mm auto

[mike in co]

well gentlemen, the reamer is here with a go gage. the gun is stripped and when i get some time(i'm working a gun show this weekend) i'll get the 40 bbl reamed to 10mm auto. this will be done in my lathe. the 10 is aprox 0.142 longer chamber than the 40 so not much reaming. i'll spend more time in the setup than in the reaming.

this gun appears to have a 20 lb spring.
i was told to move up to a 20.......
i have a nice selection of 1911 springs.

ohhhh and i picked up an original para 10mm mag! the orginal 40 mags had spacers to take up the extra fore/aft gap. the current do not, so a current 40 works for a 10mm....but they are marked 40...kinda neat to have one marked 10mm ....


thanks
mike in co

[Von Dingo]

Enjoy, sounds like fun.

[Mk42gunner]

In the Delta Elite that I bought from a shooting buddy, we replaced the original Colt double recoil springs with a 22 lb Wolf. It worked fine with warmish 10mm loads.

Robert

[redgum]

Cool project!
Im interested to see the end results Mike, Please keep us updated

[sargenv]

Funny... my P16 40 S&W mags don't have any spacers? but I practically load long anyway... 1.220" I don't really see a need to upgrade to 10 mm.. even in my 610 I don't use 10 mm brass. Loading long 40's seems to do just fine.. If ya want it, then that's good enough reason though.

[mike in co]

Funny... my P16 40 S&W mags don't have any spacers? but I practically load long anyway... 1.220" I don't really see a need to upgrade to 10 mm.. even in my 610 I don't use 10 mm brass. Loading long 40's seems to do just fine.. If ya want it, then that's good enough reason though.

you are right..the current ones do not...but the very early ones did....

cause i have a 40...no need to have mixed ammo.....

and did i mention i like the 10....???

mike in co

[mike in co]

its done!!!

the original bbl with the go gage was 0.142 plus...and the difference in 40 and 10 is 0.142..the the original chamber length was right on.....a couple of min to dial it in, then a little time with the reamer and presto bango.. 40 is now a 10....

will try to shoot it this week and eval what spring works best(for me).

mike in co

[sargenv]

I like the 10 also.. and used it extensively until the brass wore out.. then I discovered that I could load 40 long and well, brass is everywhere.. :) Like I said, if ya want it, that's good enough reason right there...

[mike in co]

shot the gun today with mixed ammo.
had a couple of failures to feed.....as in not close the slide fully.
i did not take my 1911 springs with me....so will have to try again in the future.

i can douple tap...something i could not do with the eaa....

so some fine tuning and i think i will be good to go....

more to come


mike in co

[Von Dingo]

Sargenv,
Did you lengthen the leade in your .40 throats? I've heard some of the IPSC types doing this, allowing basically a 10MM with .40 brass (which is everywhere).

[mike in co]

i ordered new wolff mag springs, got the new follower from para, and compared the 20/22 lbs springs from wolff to the factory spring.
the factory spring is the same material dia as the wolff 20 but is probably an inch or so shorter ( in my gun)...so i put the longer 20 lb spring in.

plan on shooting it today...will report
mike in co

[sargenv]

Von Dingo,

Nope, the gun has not had any barrel work done to it. The bullets I use now have a much more rounded profile (Until I get that 200 gr TC in the group buy section anyway) so I don't need to lengthen anything. I use either my 185-190 gr Long RN's that were made for my 610, or I use the 193 gr HP's that I make from 9mm brass using BT's Modified CH swaging die. You could say that it is already a 10 mm with 40 cases since I load them to 1.220". The magazines will allow 1.250" but I find that the bullet crashes on the feed ramp and doesn't load. The recoil spring I use is in the 13 pound range and I have a tungsten guide rod with shock buffs.

[Groo]

Groo here
Hi Mike the feed problem maybe the extractor not letting the case slide up the slide face
or a ruffer face,check both..
Also look in to a buffer to be kinder to your frame.
I have a custom wide body 10mm and the only time I needed a heaver spring was
when the spring was for 45 wadcutter target loads [I had some lead factory FED target 10mm]
and it didn't have the **** to chamber a round and cycled so slow that it went Kurr Chunk

[Mk42gunner]

i ordered new wolff mag springs, got the new follower from para, and compared the 20/22 lbs springs from wolff to the factory spring.
the factory spring is the same material dia as the wolff 20 but is probably an inch or so shorter ( in my gun)...so i put the longer 20 lb spring in.

plan on shooting it today...will report
mike in co

Mike,

It has been quite a while since I had a PMS card for a 1911 in front of me, but I seem to remember that the Navy specified a length of 6 5/16" for the recoil spring.

I remember on my first ship, when I had the armory, my striker and I found several of ours were awfully close to getting short. when we checked the price in the supply system the recoil springs were a whopping four cents apiece. We promptly ordered 100 for our 26 pistols. After that, whenever I had a 45 issued to me I always bought a Wolff spring for it.

Robert

[sargenv]

I use Wolff Springs in my Para(s). I also use an aftec spring loaded extractor.. so I don't have to mess with "Tuning" the extractor.. ever.. if it's goofy, I replace the springs and it goes back to normal. I did this after shearing the extractor claws on 2 Ed Brown Extractors.. I've used the Aftec for at least the last 4 years without incident.

[mike in co]

ok i did shoot it a bit yesterday.
two things happened sometimes....
failure to feed....dang( note this is with wolff mag springs and the new longer 20lb recoil spring)
and two: last round lock open..as in gun locked open with one round still in the mag.....not always but often...did not do this as a 40.

i could shoot singles, fast singles, double taps....and then every now and thin it would ftf.
dang...it was too windy/dirty/cold to swap to the 22lb spring...so that will have to wait till another day.....
ammo was 180's at 1200 and some 200's at 1050 or so...

mike in co

[mike in co]

today i went out and shot aprox another 150 rds of 180's at 1200fps.

not all the mags stopped with a round still in the mag...the oem 10mm mag worked every time.

lots of double taps and long strings of singles....
but
still get an occassional failure to feed....its almost there but stops...maybe the angle of the round not sure..but if i pull back just micro on the slide and let go it chambers.....mag lips ???

and sometime the two 40 mags would lock the slide open with the last round still in the mag....


any way i'm up to just over a total of 400 rnds thru the gun...so almost "broke in".....

added a houge grip.....still fun to shoot...

mike in co

[sargenv]

I sometimes have te same issue with Factory 10 round mags in my D18-9 Para.. Same basic frame, just a 9mm widebody in DAO.. it is my Production gun. I haven't really looked into it to determine why.. that gun and my P16 in the standard 40 S&W use a 13 pound recoil spring.

[thegreatdane]

cool project, Mike. This is the first I've heard of long-loading .40 BTW...

[richbug]

Lose the AFTEC and install a regular ED Brown extractor. Everybody that uses and AFTEC seems to love them, but they do cause a bit more drag than a properly tuned conventional extractor. It sounds like your problem is the round not coming up the breech properly, in my book that points to the extractor.

You could try to open the lips so it releases the round earlier. The 40 cal mags have to guide a 1.15" round, you are at 1.25", so a .1" earlier would be ideal in my book.

Hard to diagnose it not having it in front of me.

[mike in co]

Lose the AFTEC and install a regular ED Brown extractor. Everybody that uses and AFTEC seems to love them, but they do cause a bit more drag than a properly tuned conventional extractor. It sounds like your problem is the round not coming up the breech properly, in my book that points to the extractor.

You could try to open the lips so it releases the round earlier. The 40 cal mags have to guide a 1.15" round, you are at 1.25", so a .1" earlier would be ideal in my book.

Hard to diagnose it not having it in front of me.

rich,
this is an older gun..out of canada, in black steel not the current ss p16-40. how can a 1911 novice tell if it has the AETEC extractor ?

thanks
mike in co

[richbug]

rich,
this is an older gun..out of canada, in black steel not the current ss p16-40. how can a 1911 novice tell if it has the AETEC extractor ?

thanks
mike in co


The aftec for the lack of a better term, has a "hinge" in the middle.

I missread SSarge's post and thought it was you... Sorry.


Google 1911 extractor tuning, I suspect you have a conventional extractor and it is just a bit too tight(strip the gun, stick a live round up into the breech face, it should just hang there nicely, if it takes any effort at all, or snaps into place, it is too tight). I have run a couple of the older black P16s to near death(250K+), they are good guns.

Also if your feeding issue happens on the next to last round, that seems to be a Para thing with their newest followers. I am having that issue, and it is driving me nuts.

[mike in co]

shot the gun again today.
one new mecgar and one oem 40 mag shot well.
an oem 40 steel and an oem 10 both had stopages.

will get another oem new mag to try an dmaybe anbother mecgar.
the mecgars are only 15 not 16...

mike in co

[Phat Man Mike]

1911.org has some good info on tuning your extractor! my new pistol was too tight and caused some problems .

[mike in co]

more rounds down range. still not perfect.
i cut a small ramp into the bottom of the bbl and things worked better.
cut and polished a small amount more and looking good.

need to adjust the sights and think that rn is better than truncated cone.
the edge of the top of the cone seems to hit the top of the bbl or the bottom of the bbl and slow down. do not remember this issue when shooting 180 golden sabers.

more work..but better

mike in co

[mike in co]

ok...lots of things tried and NOTHING gave me 100 reliability.
remembered a member saying he loaded 40 s&w long...hmmmmmmmmm

ok loaded 180 berrys round shoulder at 1150fps at a length that was longer than 40S&W but shorter than 10mm......
bingo!!!!
also loaded some rem 180 golden sabers this way but at 1230 fps.......bingo again...

so we now have the 40 S&W LONG.....LOL

i always say to fix the problem, not the symptoms, but in this case i had no luck fixing the problem. none....so i went around the problem....


finally 100% reliable....

mike in co

[Von Dingo]

Are you using .40, or 10 brass?