Reality Check: Star vs Lyman 4500?

[Daryl]

Hi,

I'm using they Lyman 4500 for lube sizing. If all goes well, it seems I can do about 400 9mm/38's in an hour or so. First question: is this about average for everyone?

My volume is starting to go up and I'd like to be able to do a few thousand in a sitting. Honestly, one hour at the Lyman has my back aching!

I looked at Magma's web site and found the Star plus a bullet feeder and air feed set up for 3 calibers would end up about $765.

So, my question is this: Is it worth it? What production level have you experienced with the Star vs. the Lyman?

I look at the cost of buying lead makes my material cost less than a penny a bullet. Market prices are 6 cents or more. So, I figure I'm "making" a nickel a piece in labor for the whole casting, sizing, lubing operation. I can cast/size/lube about 300 an hour with my current set up- so that's about $15 per hour (of course, with taxes & the gummit's share - I'd have to be making $25 an hour or so to pay out $15 in cash to buy them).

So, how much labor would the Star save? I can figure out the "payback" in bullets for my labor once I can get an idea of the production rate.

Thanks

[357shooter]

Good poll. Right now I pan lube and shoot unsized. I'm thinking about getting a Lyman/RCBS early next year or maybe waiting for a Star. That's most days.

Other days, pan lubing is working so well and sizing with Lee sizers (if needed or for gas checks) that I'm not sure a lubri-sizer would work better.

The elapsed time to pan lube 250 bullets is an hour or so, but most of the time I'm doing something else as things are in the oven or in the fridge. That handles a week of shooting, just do it one evening each week.

Today is a "stick w/pan lubing" day cause it's easy and cheap and most importantly, is working extremely well. I love my Darr lube, it probably wouldn't work in a lubrisize.

[dragonrider]

All of my sizing is done on a Star.

[cheese1566]

Use a Star for the majority of mine and a RCBS LAM for the odd pistols and rifle.

If nothing else, get the Star and upgrade from there. When I bought mine, I was fortuneate to get a deal on an air feed and had the components to build a roller handle and PID controlled heater.

The last I would get would be a bullet feeder. They add a little more complexity and adjustment. I found I could go just as fast by feeding by hand.

You can do those 400 bullets in a fraction of the time and grin everytime you are done! :lol:

26545

[Daryl]

Great input, Cheese. Thanks. I'm checking on availability now. I will hold off on the feeder. I like the fraction of the time idea! I will also keep the Lyman for those low-volume ones like the rifle, etc. Can you also install the gas checks as you size on the Star? I have stuck with the stock size Lyman dies of 356 - 358 - 452. Any input on .0005 increments?

[ReloaderFred]

I own and use a Lyman 450, an RCBS, two SAECO machines and four Star sizers. By far, the majority of my sizing and lubing is done on the Star machines, especially for pistol bullets. I did about 3,000 .38 bullets on one of my Star machines the day before yesterday in about two hours, feeding them by hand.

I don't have an air feed for any of my Star machines, but I do have a Midway heater, with another on the way. I use different lubes in the different machines, depending on what the bullets are intended for.

I've had the Lyman sizer since about 1970 and it's my least favorite machine to use. The Star machines are my favorite, with the SAECO being next and the RCBS holding the third spot. I also have an old Lyman 45 machine, but I don't use it.

My suggestion would be to get a basic Star/Magma machine and use it. If you use hard lubes, which I tend to prefer for my pistol caliber use, since bulk storage is easier in cardboard boxes, then you'll need a heater of some sort. A bullet feeder would be nice, but not necessary and I've found that I don't need the air feed, since I would have to move it back and forth between my machines and that just doesn't seem like it's worth the bother.

I highly recommend Lathesmith on this forum for dies for the Star machines. He's less expensive and his quality is first rate. Besides, he seems like a really nice guy.

I feed my sizer/lubricators with a Magma Master Caster and about two dozen bullet molds for it. I'll spend a day casting and another half day sizing and lubing. The nice thing about using these machines is they don't wear you out like the manual methods do. I've got about 50 manual molds, but I find I have to force myself to crank up the Lyman or RCBS pots to cast manually anymore. Getting old makes you appreciate some of the easier ways of doing things....

Hope this helps.

Fred

[angus6]

Daryl there is no comparison when it comes to speed, go with the Magma. if your a handy type guy you can build your own heater for about 1/4 of what they want. You can also build a collator if you want to feed bullets, takes a bit of tinkering and different plates for different bullets

I bought the complete package and can lube bullets as fast as I can pull the handle.

UPS is dropping this off tomorrow:p but it's going to be feed by the Bullet Master
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9VggR95jxHI&feature=related

I would think if your not using the bullet feeder you could have Chris make some custom top punches and put g/c on

[thegreatdane]

Other - pan.

[Daryl]

Well, I'm convinced and just ordered one. I guess they are not always in stock and ready to ship but they are now. Hope to have it in a few days and get started.

[cheese1566]

Don't forget lube (this takes solid, but hollow will work too) and dies!
Lathesmith makes excellent dies, extra punches, locknuts with setscrews, and roller handles.

[357shooter]

If anyone decides to sell their Lyman or RCBS to buy a Star please PM me. I'd be interested.

[Daryl]

Don't forget lube (this takes solid, but hollow will work too) and dies!
Lathesmith makes excellent dies, extra punches, locknuts with setscrews, and roller handles.


I'll use the hollow lubes I have to get started then order them solid. I've been using LBT blue and like it -

[Daryl]

Any hints or secrets on setting up the Star? I printed the owners manual from the web site but it is pretty general and looks like it is mostly a learn-as-you-go operation.

[curiousgeorge]

I think I posted on this thread yesterday, but here goes again anyway.

Try a plain Star first. Spend extra money on sizing dies and bullet lube. The increase in production over the Lyman 4500 is double or more especially if you size nose first.

I have 3 Stars that stay set up in .358, .430, & .452. I have 2 Lyman 4500's, one with a .457 die and the other with a .309 die that are never changed. And last but not least is the old Lyman 450 that I use for everything else odd that I don't shoot as much as the others (.313, .325, .355, .359, .410, .454, etc.). Every time I use a Lyman, even though they work fine and do a good job, I quickly remember why I bought the Stars.

The older I get, the more I try to save time anyway I can.

Steve

[curiousgeorge]

Cheese, you have a good looking Star set up. You mentioned something that sometimes gets overlooked.

One more thing that would be well worth the investment is a good heater. Mine is an old Lyman that I mounted on some raised wood blocks and then used t-nuts to fasten the blocks to the bench. When using the Stars it stays back on the bench, when using the Lymans, remove the four bolts from the top and slide to the front of the bench and c-clamp.

Steve

[dragonrider]

Hollow sticks of lube will work yes, but the air bubble created will cause some minor problems like lube grooves not filling or lube pushing out of the die when you don't want it to. I find it best to melt those and pour it into the sizer.

[Roundnoser]

I have a couple Stars (.452" and .356") and a Lyman 4500. I love the Stars. My Lyman is for bullets I don't cast in volume (41 mag, 44 Mag, 38/357). I purchased the Magma heater bases. They are expensive at $100.00+ each, but they have a built-in, adjustable thermostat which is really nice. The Lyman 4500 has a heating rod that inserts into the base. There is no thermostat, so It must be plugged in and out of an electrical socket whenever you want to heat it up or cool it down...IMO, a real pain in the &*% after awhile.

When you get your Star, don't get frustrated if you have a rough time getting to work just right. There is a learing curve. Check out some of the other threads on that subject. Once you have it running, you'll really like it! LEt us know how you make out.

[RobS]

If I wasn't such a tight ars I would have gotten a star a long time ago. I guess my time just isn't worth as much as others; I'll sit a bit longer and work a bullet down and then up over and over through the RCBS Luba-a-matic. With that though, if I happened to come accross one at the right price wel...........................l then that would be a different story.

[Daryl]

If I wasn't such a tight ars I would have gotten a star a long time ago. I guess my time just isn't worth as much as others; I'll sit a bit longer and work a bullet down and then up over and over through the RCBS Luba-a-matic. With that though, if I happened to come accross one at the right price wel...........................l then that would be a different story.

I can be pretty tight, too. That's why I tried to put the numbers to it. My best, with all going right, is 250-300 an hour on the Lyman. I'm hearing that I should double or triple that with the Star. Say I can produce 400 more per hour with less hassle.

I look at many tool purchases as "how will my labor pay for this tool if I do it myself?" So, if the cast bullets are 6 to 8 cents each purchased, and materials are about a penny (if purchasing lead), then those 400 extra per hour are "paying" me, say a nickel or more in labor. So, it's like $20 an hour for those extra 400. In 10 to 15 hours I'll have the difference for the Star "earned off".

[JonB_in_Glencoe]

fellow tightwad here.
another factor in many tool purchases that I forget when I am deciding to buy, but always remember when someone else is deciding buy...is resale value.
Jon

[RobS]

I can be pretty tight, too. That's why I tried to put the numbers to it. My best, with all going right, is 250-300 an hour on the Lyman. I'm hearing that I should double or triple that with the Star. Say I can produce 400 more per hour with less hassle.

I look at many tool purchases as "how will my labor pay for this tool if I do it myself?" So, if the cast bullets are 6 to 8 cents each purchased, and materials are about a penny (if purchasing lead), then those 400 extra per hour are "paying" me, say a nickel or more in labor. So, it's like $20 an hour for those extra 400. In 10 to 15 hours I'll have the difference for the Star "earned off".

Daryl:
Well you can put your mind around it as your time making money, but my time isn't making me money as my wallet still has only $1 in it after sitting down this morning to size those boolits. I do understand where you are going though, but with this being my hobby, I don't mind taking a bit more time.

[bobthenailer]

ive had 2 lymans and 2 saecos all gone , i now have 2 stars for 30 years and wouldent look back.
a star will usually do 1000 + bullets per hr useing the standard model with no extra production boosting extras . however i would recomend a heater and a roller handel .
my record was 1000 bullets in about 37 minuets , 357 dia 9mm barley sizing the bullet as the as cast dia was almost the same as die dia. however i couldent of keped up that pace for another 1000
the speed is also based on how much you are sizing the as cast dia of the bullet down to, the closer to die dia the easier it is , also bullet hardness and caliber also play a part

[Artful]

RCBS and Lyman 450 used for stuff I don't do a lot of the Star is for production of mass pistol bullets.

[Lively Boy]

pan lube but would like a lube/sizer. some day maybe till then i put the boys to work running the push thru sizer and cutting bullets out of the lube. keeps them out of trouble and off the video games. haha

[EDK]

When you reach the stage of life where time is more important than money....if you got enough money too!....you'll get a STAR....and a DILLON (or other high volume press) and prefer moulds with a minimum of four cavities. I have a good paying and secure job with the electric company here, but my day starts at 5AM and I get home around 5PM....got to move fast to be able to shoot after work this time of year and I think I'm out of daylight until March.

A basic STAR with dies and punches for nose first sizing plus the cheap MIDWAYUSA heater has done well for me for over 20 years. BUT I need to order a roller handle and everyone says to get the air feed.

:Fire::cbpour::redneck:

[gl89aw]

I'm a little cheap myself, started with a Lyman, before I retired I bought a Star on ebay for 180.00, wish I had done it years ago, I still haven't bought a heater, just set a trouble light real close to the sizer for 30 min. or so before I start, seems to work real well.

[HATCH]

I just recently bought a Star.
Couple of things I learned.
(1) Lube the die o-rings - So far I have done 2 die changes and trashed the top o-ring both times

(2) If in a unconditioned space you need a heater, I use a lyman universal. it has threaded holes that match up to the Star. No temp controller just plug and unplug. I have found that once I get the Star working properly then I can unplug the heater. The heat retained in the heater and the Star itself seems to keep it working for the hour or so I am sizing.

For me its all about time.
I have a Lyman 45 which works great but is slow and wears you out after a few hundred.
With the Star I am not starting to feel worn out until I hit the 1K mark.
I have 2 kids (4 and 6) and that doesn't give me a lot of free time that I am not at work so i have to make the most of the time I have.
For the $380 I have invested in my star, I could buy a lot of ready to load boolits but it wouldn't be the same has pouring your own.

Also the Star is a life long investment. It will last the rest of your life regardless of your age. I am 41 and have no doubts that I will get 30 to 40 years (rest of my life) of use out of the Star.

[Fixxah]

Air setup is $39 . Resale value is pretty high. The used machines are almost as much as new.

[thegreatdane]

Man, that star is looking better and better... hmm. I may not last much longer with the old fashion pan method.

[mroliver77]

I love my Stars. I have two. I have 2 Lyman and 1 RCBS that get used for rifle and small batches. Clothes irons and clip on lights for heat. As far as toys go they are not too expensive. Without the casting, loading and shooting I would need to pay a shrink. Much cheaper therapy for me!
Jay

[Dale53]

I have a Star, a Lyman 4500, and an RCBS lube/sizer. I shoot mostly pistol these days and the Star is the champ without question.

I use Lars White Label Carnauba Red lube and it requires a heater. I have the Lyman heater and use a rheostat I already had to control the heat. You can build a rheostat for just a few dollars (under $10.00 using a light dimmer switch in a box). The LYman heater is available from Midway on sale now for $39.95. With the rheostat it equals any heater on the market. It comes drilled and tapped to mount the Star, Lyman, RCBS, and Saeco lube/sizers.

I do not use a bullet feeder nor the air set up. You only have to add pressure once every fifty bullets or so with the Star - I can handle that myself...

Dale53

[6bg6ga]

I have a Lyman 4500 that is curently sitting on the shelf after purchasing a new Star sizer. I always hated to size and lube bullets because of the time it required but not anymore. With the Star I can average around 450-500 in a 30 minute period feeding them by hand. I have a bullet feeder that should be arriving this week and I am in the process of making my own heater. There is no way I will even think of setting up the Lyman again after using the Star.

[Artful]

There is no way I will even think of setting up the Lyman again after using the Star.

Don't be too sure - I have had reason to use my RCBS and Lyman - Star is great for high production pistol bullet lubing but is not the do all end all, My in and out still get used.

[angus6]

Love my star but am in the process of setting up a new to me lubber that will put the star up on the back shelf

[thegreatdane]

Love my star but am in the process of setting up a new to me lubber that will put the star up on the back shelf

Oh Really? What could that be? Do tell. Do tell.

[angus6]

Oh Really? What could that be? Do tell. Do tell.

Well it's still a magma, just a little bigger then the one in the background

http://i40.photobucket.com/albums/e219/angus6/Picture017-2.jpg

[thegreatdane]

Holy Smokes! Industrial production? Very impressive.

[runfiverun]

that looks like the big magma auto.

i use the stars the feeders with the tubes, heater,
and the air.
when i need a bunch of boolits i rig them up and fill tubes.
about 50-65 per tube x 25 tubes x 2hrs or less work.
otherwise i just use the heaters and air, and leave the one set up for speed.
i have three of them, and no one ain't for sale.

[LAH]

I have a Lyman 450 & a Ballisti-Cast Auto sizer/luber. I use them both but my Star is the most used. For the average home caster the Star with a heater can't be beat IMHO.

If you're having back trouble after using the Lyman for an hour you need to get off your back side & stand up. If you mount the Lyman base 'bout chest level the back pain will go away, at least it did for me. I cast standing, lube standing, load standing, split wood standing & sometimes eat my lunch standing. The only time my back hurts is sitting. Something to think about..............Creeker

[saltydog452]

I once knew a gent who liked to 'tinker' with stuff. Back then, Star was about the only game in town worth playing.

He took an older, outgrown bicycle, salvagerd the cranks, sprockets, and chain (s?) and made himself a foot powerd gizmo to his Star re-sizer/lubricater.

That left two hands to feed the machine, catch/box the bullets, and open a beer bottle.

salty

[HighHook]

Well it's still a magma, just a little bigger then the one in the background

http://i40.photobucket.com/albums/e219/angus6/Picture017-2.jpg

Holy melted boolit Batman!!! I think we are all jealous.

[Bradley]

I have had a number of stars. I've still got one. But I sold the rest off. Don't know why I haven't sold the one I've still got.

I prefer the Lyman 4500. I can do about 550 bullets and hour and changing out sizing dies is trivial. Don't really do all that much different with a Star but changing out dies is a bit of a pain.

So I prefer the Lyman. And I also like Lyman customer service.

[STAR4ever]

I have 3 Star Lubrisizers, one is always set up for .45 ACP #68 H&G boolits. The other right now is set up for .44 Magnum and the third is set up for 9mm. The .45 and 9mm both have Magama boolit feeders and heaters, the .44 machine is just stand alone, no heater or feeder. Great machine for lubing and sizing. I do not have the air feed for the lube, but the shovel or L shaped handles are a must, as is a bin underneath to catch the boolits.

[rockrat]

Bought a used Star a year ago, never used it. Finally about 3 weeks ago, decided to see what it will do.
I have 4-450's set up with different lubes/dies. Once I got the Star figured out how to mount it and work it, I probably have done 500 boolits on the 450's and 4000 bullets on the Star. Easily 2X with gas checked boolits and 4X plain based ones. Mainly 30 cals. on the Star, but some 38's too. Don't have .340",.433" or .501/.512" dies for the Star, thats why I am still using the 450's.
Going to check gun shows for used ones. Wouldn't mind having two more Stars
Should have bought at least one of the used ones on Swapping/sellling

[MtGun44]

Star wins on quantity, and because I have two of them. I sit down to the Star to turn out
a BUNCH of the same thing. For the Lyman and RCBS lubrisizers, smaller batches of
designs for testing or just in calibers that I don't load large quantities of ammo for.

Bill

[Whistler]

I recently bought a Lyman 4500. I will only use it for my heavy .44 and .444 long range loads where I want a proper hard lube. For my volume productions of 9mm and .38 Special I tumble lube with wax based antirust spray for cars.

[rmcc]

I never knew how much I didn't know about this game until I joined this site!!

[cajun shooter]

I had three Stars all with it's own air feed and heater at one time. I sold off two of my Stars as I have settled on shooting the 44-40 full time with BP in SASS matches. When I loaded other calibers and casted for them I was always having to change out the lube and dies to go to another caliber. It was easier to have a Star for that caliber. I purchased my first Star in 1971 and used it until 1997 when I sold it to gather moving capital. I wish that I still had it just for the memories. The Star has a learning curve ands it is limited to bullets up to a little over 50 cal because of die size and the space to fit it. I prefer to pan lube my 45-70 bullets even though I have a 460 die if I choose to use my Star. They are far and away past any thing that is offered at this time.

[Dale53]

One thing that I keep seeing on here is how difficult it is to change dies in a Star. I use a home made die extractor (pretty much the same as the factory one) and it only takes a couple of minutes to change the dies.

I use Carnauba Red which requires a heater to apply. It also makes it easier to remove the die when the machine has been pre-heated so I do that to make it easier on the machine. It's pretty straight forward with the die extractor.

It is a good idea to record measurements for minimum fumbling when you change bullets of the same caliber. Remove the last bullet in the die so that the die is clear. Then hold the handle down and using your dial caliper as a depth gauge, measure from the bottom of the die to the nose punch while holding the handle down. You can measure this quite accurately and when you set up again, you can hit this one on the nose and immediately start proper lubrication without "******* around".

FWIW
Dale53

[Linear Thinker]

Star for flat-base pistol boolits, Ideal/Lyman 45/450/4500 for rifle calibers or GC pistol heads. Star is a lot faster, especially with a tube feeder. For gas checks, I prefer Lyman.
LT

[tackstrp]

has anyone tried the ALF (Auto Lube Feeder) with spring for soft lubes from Cabinetree. Of course would not be as fast or as good as a star sizer or even no sizing and xlox lube. But as I was doing some 9mm, my one and only convental mold, in my lyman 450. I noticed how much time i spend cranking the lube wench.

The cabine tree ALF could cut out some of the time. Will order one as soon as i sell more stuff .

[Swede44mag]

I have a RCBS lubamatic II for calibers I don't shoot a lot and 2 Star Lubers.
I lubed a 3 pound coffee can of H&G 158 gr SWCBB in a couple of hours.
I don't get to shoot as much as I would like they will last me a couple of years.

I use to shoot hundreds of H&G #68 every weekend.
If I only had my own range and a bullet catcher to recycle.

If you need Star dies PM Lathesmith he will set you up with whatever size you need.

[songdog53]

All my sizing and lubing is done with Star and couldn't be easier. Went from pan lubing to Star and wondered why i waited so long except being frugal or better know as cheap.

[tackstrp]

ordered the Magna star lube sizer and Air feed. The sales department are rather casual, they make an invoice and charge credit card when shipped. Should also get the Magna star heater, rather than messing with a subsitute. Oh well one thing at a time. Ordered Sizing dies from lathesmith.

Saw a used Star with two sizing dies sell for $291 tonight on another url. Rather have new from Magna star for that much money.

[Colorado4wheel]

Last time on my Star I sized 2k bullets. It took less then two hours but I was not watching the clock precisely. All in one sitting. All 9mm, with hard lube and a lyman heater. I size so fast that the heater has to go full tilt all the time to keep the lube hot enough to still flow.

[Pete P]

I have a 15-year-old Saeco. I did have an older Lyman but I did not like it and got rid of it for the Saeco. If I would have known about the Star I would've purchased it instead. My Saeco is in perfect condition not a speck of rust and does not leak. Right now I can't justify a star because my Saeco works very well. Perhaps in the future. I am probably going to add a heater to it soon.

[9.3X62AL]

My mode of reloading and shooting seems well-adapted to the Lyman 450 sizer--the Ponsness Warren P-200 for handgun and small rifle work--and the Rockchucker for big rifles. I hvae 35 calibers, but roughly no more than 300 pieces of brass for each. A few handgun calibers exceed that number, but only 40 S&W exceeds 500 in number. I'm also heavily invested in Lyman-type sizer dies, and could not afford to re-tool in depth with another maker's hardware.

[Slainte]

Got an old Star from a friend who died. Has taken a while to find Magma is building the same and has a little manual. Also that Lathesmith is making dies & punches. The best is his set- nuts.
Just did 500 .428 200gr in a half hour. It has taken longer to heat up the red rooster then to handfeed the machine.
Will never part with it !

PS : Put a heater on, since most lube is very hard and may cause damage to the machine.

[63 Shiloh]

Love my Star, got air feed and the heater, just cobbled myself up a roller handle out of an old scooter grip and T shape handle.

Still have a Lyman 450 that is used exclusively for BP lubes and fat boolits.

Shooting IPSC makes a Star almost mandatory, it would be painful to size and lube 2500 .357" boolits a fortnight/month with the Lyman!


Mike

[Reload3006]

I am using the Lyman 45 and 4500 wish I wasnt I sure would rather have a star. But I am too far gone into H&I sizing dies and nose punches to change now. If I only knew then what I know now. LOL or Hind site is 20-20

[Rockchucker]

Air setup is $39 . Resale value is pretty high. The used machines are almost as much as new.

Was the 39 dollar set up a kit, or were you buying the parts?

[Artful]

Reload3006 - way more available & cheaper H&I dies for Lyman/RCBS system otherwise you would probably be spending a lot of time talking to Lathesmith

[A pause for the COZ]

Good thread. I just solved this same problem. I pan lube, use a RCBS LAM and a ideal #1. All methods perform the required task.
I found though I was buying some copper clad 45's because my casting and lube sizing was not keeping up with the demand from the addition of a 45 acp carbine and a son who really likes to shoot it.
To solve said problem. I purchased a used Star.
Ummmm lets just say. all other methods are bouncing a rock compared to a basket ball. I will still use all methods to lube and size. But when I need to crank out a bunch. Its gona be the Star.

http://i33.photobucket.com/albums/d66/Kelly2215/100_8639.jpg

[MT Chambers]

I have and use 3 Stars including a mint "Highboy", all use heaters and Star airfeed, I also have and use 2 Lymans and 2 RCBS units, i only use the Lymans and RCBS units if I don't have Star dies for that size. The Stars do a better job because of the "nose first" sizing, I believe that they are also about 5X faster then the rest. Def. a vote for the Star!!

[marlin39a]

I have hard lube in my Lyman 450 with heater. My lyman 45 runs 2500+.

[David2011]

I'm with MtGun44. I have a Star for volume pistol boolits like .38/.40/.45. I also have a Lyman 450 that I overhauled with virtually all new parts a few years ago. It's used lightly and mostly for gas checked .44 boolits and rifle boolits. I like having both tools for different jobs.

David

[Wal']

Just bought a RCBS LAM 2 from a friends estate simply because of price, just about a giveaway, have been tumblelubing with 45-45-10 without problems up till now.

Maybe should have waited & bought a Star, but with both the tumble & luber sizer I'm more than covered for now.

[6bg6ga]

I originally replied to this post in 12-2010 and at that time I had a Magma and a 4500. I made the comment that the 4500 sat on the shelf and I wouldn't use it again and someone said don't be to sure about that. Well since that first post the 4500 went to ebay and I don't miss it.
I also purchased a Ballisti-cast MarkVI on the group buy. I absolutely hated to size and lube with the anequated 4500. The Magma and the Mark VI actually made sizing and lubricating fun.

So, it it worth the price? Well, I don't shoot that much but my time is worth something to me and I find that I can do in 1hr what it used to take me most of the day to do and that frees me up to do other things. So, its worth it to me.

[MT Chambers]

I find that with the Star and it's speed I do larger batches, only because it is so slick and fast. With my RCBS or Lyman I tend to just do enough for the current reloading project because it is slow and boring!

[Capt. Methane]

I picked up a Star off ebay. Probably paid a little too much but still saved some over new. I'd read reviews of the different machines and I'm really glad I waited and got what I wanted.

[GOPHER SLAYER]

LAH, I'm with you. A close friend put me onto that years ago. I mounted my bench chest high and I do it all standing. I have at last count eleven lube/sizers. 1 SAECO, 1 RCBS, 5 450 Lyman, 3 Lyman 45s and one very old Pacific. OH, almost forgot, I have 1 really old Ideal. That makes twelve. They all work. I like to put a die in the sizer and leave it. If I need that caliber I grab another sizer. The SACO is best at seating gas checks, otherwise they all work fast enough for me. If I could only keep one, it would be the RCBS. It is easier to change dies than the 450 Lyman which has too fine a thread. As for the STAR, it is for pistol shooters that fire much more than I ever will. When I heard about inserting bird shot in the die holes to match grease groves, you lost me. I have actually not had to size pistol bullets for a long time. I have managed to buy either gun or realoading collictions from families and along with them came large amounts of cast bullets including 38, 44 and 45 caliber. I mostly shoot cast rifle bullets from 30 to 45 caliber and you just don't set at a bench and fire a lot of those at a time.

[LAH]

When I heard about inserting bird shot in the die holes to match grease groves, you lost me.

Shooting the big rifle bullets you wouldn't need a Star & may be better off with the RCBS. The shot thing for the Star dies is really simple once you see it hands on. How's the gopher shooting going? We don't have those here but that's something I'd love to do.

[GOPHER SLAYER]

LAH, we moved to a senior community and we no longer have a yard with grass, just gravel so I no longer have a gopher problem. Our back yard is the San Berardino Natl Forest so now I have to watch for black bear when I go out to the trash barrel. We see lots of deer back there too.

[seagiant]

Hi,
I hate them! The one on the left is actually a "Phelps" which is a good copy of a Star and works perfectly!

[HDS]

I use a star for all my sizing, right now though I use a lee sizer and pan lubing for my 223 bullets to begin with. Good to have that option for the odd stuff.

Edit: I size 9mm, 44 and 45 on it. I have three dies and three punches with set screws for each die. I think that is a real nice and easy way to switch calibers, set & forget.

[remy3424]

I am sensing that there are many here whos job it is to shoot boolits for the amount of casting and lubing going on or we have many retailers of amongst us. What say you Star owners...hobby shooters, league shooters, pros or retailers?

[HDS]

Hobby shooter here. I needed a lubrisizer because pan lubing wasn't working out for me (that is, it drove me nuts) and I wanted just one sizer setup for many calibers and something I wouldn't get tired of and want an upgrade for later on, resulting in wasted money and time. So this was in that light the most economical choice and I am real happy I decided on one.

[Dale53]

I'm strictly a hobby shooter... However, sizing bullets is not one of my particular favorite activities and the Star helps me to minimize the time I spend doing this for maybe 10,000 bullets a year in several different calibers.

Dale53

[MtGun44]

Hobby only, but when I need to knock out a 500 rd batch of 9mm or something, Star is fast and one stays
set up for .358 diam, single groove and is easy to make small adjustment for 358477, to 358429 or
Lee 356-120 TC - one lube groove and .358 sizing diam. If necessary to go to different diam AND
change from one to two or three lube grooves, then the time is a PITA.

If I am doing rifle loading or testing a pistol boolit, or 50 rds of pistol ammo that one of the Stars
is not already set up for - then the Lyman or RCBS is plenty fast enough.

Bill

[NoZombies]

Hobbyist here. I use a ballisticast manual sizer, a star lube-sizer, a meepos sizer, and a handful of Lyman 450's and 45's.

The ballisticast is set up for .45 handgun, the Star is set up for 38/357 and the meepos is set up for .32 handguns. I keep a 450 set up for .45 rifles, and one for .30, and the other lymans get changed out for other calibers as needed. I'd love to have a sizer for every caliber I shoot, and one day, if I keep finding sizers cheap at gunshows, maybe I will.

These days, I really have very little time for reloading and shooting, and so what time I do have is personally valuable. Using hi capacity sizers and multiple cavity molds for handgun calibers, and keeping sizers set up for rifle calibers means that I save time in set-up and sizing, and might just be able to shoot a little more.

[MT Chambers]

I sell cast bullets in Canada, over 200 designs, most every kind of mold made(except Lee), I shoot almost daily myself, and use the Star for most everything unless I don't have the right size die, heavy weights for the 45/70? the Star, .224"? the Star as well, it produces the most consistent bullets, period.

[dudel]

Unsized if I can get away with it. Lee push through sizers when I can't.

Tumble lube with 50/50 Liquid Alox / mineral spirits (twice if using the Lee sizers).

[youngmman]

I lube/sized for about an hour with a Saeco lubesizer before I packed it up for sale and bought a Star. This was in the mid-1980's and I have never regretted it. I don't have a bullet feed or air pressure for the lube and can still put out over 1,000 per hour if I want to go that fast. I would also get the Magma heater base for the lubesizer.

[9.3X62AL]

Interesting results, that the Lyman/RCBS system only microscopically exceeds the Star system popularity. While I don't have a complete understanding of how the Stars do business, it is pretty clear to me that in terms of yield potential and speed the Star is a superior mode of operation. The real question seems to be whether your hobby activity is of a type that requires that sort of productivity, and whether your time availability is so restricted as to similarly require same. In my case, the answers would be "no" and "no" respectively, so I stagger on with the 19th Century Lymans rather happily.

[MtGun44]

An old thread rises from the grave!

Al finds the crux of the matter. Most of us don't need that many bullets in the same type. The Star is great
for large quantities of the same bullet but very fussy to set up for different boolits (single lube groove to multiple
lube grooves is extremely time consuming, must add or remove lead shot hammered into holes in the
die) so most will find that the RCBS or Lyman type is more useful for typical hobbyist. If you lube very large
quantities of the same boolit, Stars are great, the potentially long setup time is well worth it.

And as I said, I load three different .358 diam SINGLE LUBE GROOVE designs easily, just adjust the height
where the lube is injected so it is at the groove.

Go back and see post #23 if you want to see how I use my lubrisizers. Artful and I are in agreement, I have
two Stars (just because they are such a PITA to set up) and one each RCBS and Lyman. Started pan lubing
and old Lee hammer through dies, wife bought me the RCBS in the late 70s.

Bill

[6bg6ga]

The first setup on the Star/Magma can be interesting. If you write down the settings the next time around is a piece of cake. I have two reasons for purchasing a GOOD sizer lubricator and those are to obtain a ROUND bullet instead of something sized on one side as the Lymans do and secondly I don't like to waste my time. I may not need large quantities of bullets for myself but now I find myself doing the sizing for others and we simply trade off work. I get my cases sized a job which I don't care for and I seem to be getting some lead in return for my favor.

I've had both and I will NEVER go back to the Lyman.

[hermans]

I cast only for pistol, 45acp, and I shoot a lot, so for me it is easy. My RCBS just gathers dust and gets used only once in a while when I do some experimenting, but once big volumes of sizing is required.......only Star!

[engineer401]

i got rid of the 4500 because the ram had a lot of play in it making alignment a bit of a pain. I bought a Magma/Star and never looked back. I recently bought two seized sizers from Ebay. One is a Lyman 45 and the other is a Lachmiller Lube-A-Matic. It made a good Saturday job to clean them up. They are both functional now. The LAM is tight as can be. I plan to keep it for just-in-case reasons. It seems to be a far better machine than the 4500. As for the 45, it is fully functional and seems to be tight. It's not pretty. I have no special plans for it.

[40-82 hiker]

I use a 4500 for two pistol calibers and two rifle calibers. Given my medical problems and not working, I am very thankful to have that. I get the volume I need, but it is true that I cannot sit for more than an hour at a time no matter what I am doing. More volume would be better then, but can't afford anything else. So, very thankful. Very...

[Lead Fred]

$2 buck cake tin from Goodwill.

Can make grease cookies in it too.

I guess pan lubing didnt make the list

[youngmman]

All of my sizing is done on a Star.

Same here, I tried all the others and ended up selling them 20 or more years ago in favor of the Star. Still have the dies for the Lyman ,RCBS and Saeco sizers that i have to get rid of.

[gtgeorge]

I set mine with one of Lathesmith's setscrew nuts for the one profile with the longest base and measure the difference to whatever I want to do and add a shim washer. If it has more than 1 lube groove I get a separate die. I fend setup changing profiles easy at that point. Removing and adding lead shot is indeed a pita as well as setting up for a different depth which is why I do things this way.

[fredj338]

I had a lyman, sold it a few years after I got my original Star. Once setup, write down the punch distance from the face of the die, makes changing calibers easier. I use a heater, so once everything comes to working temp, I can easily do 1500/hour. Waaaay faster than any other sizer, no air assist really needed, unless you just hate pulling the handle. Buy your dies & punches from Lathesmith.

[lightman]

I still use a Lyman that my Grandfather bought back in the 60's or early 70's. Being recently retired, I'm looking seriously at the Star/ Magma unit. I use hard lube now with a Midway heater base. The Lyman does the job fine, just looking for more speed.