30-30 and sized OO

[randyrat]

I sized up a few OO buck shot to .309 They look like little foot balls. My intention was to load them in a super light 30-30 load. Whats a good load to start with.
Bullseye? Unique? or other fast burning pistol powders. Intent is for 10 yd plinkin fun or self/property defense against squirrels.
Ringing the chamber? is there potential

[geargnasher]

Now I never thought of doing that! I'd say roll the b.s. in liquid Alox, let it dry, and fluff up about 3/4 grain of Dacron filler between the b.s. and the powder. I wouldn't even worry about sizing unless they expand the case necks too much when seating. The only danger I could see is the b.s. creating a pressure spike after launch when it jumps the throat and slams the rifling, but it's bound to be slight.

You won't get chamber ringing unless you tamp the filler down hard against the powder and leave an air gap between the filler and the boolit. You want to stuff the Dacron into the case after the powder is put in and use a piece of coathanger wire or something to "fluff" it up and make it expand inside the case, filling the air space from the bottom of the "boolit" to the powder. Even with low density, powder doesn't migrate through the fibers.

As far as powder selection, there was a good thread within the last year or so, something about "how low can you go with the .30-30" in which outlined a similar venture with gallery-type loads, I think it was Molly or Wiljen that was experimenting with it, and I think Red Dot was the powder of choice.

Gear

[Thecyberguy]

Trail Boss....I wished one could ship powder..I would send you a little.
IMO, it works great for light loads. While I haven't loaded any 30-30, I have loaded 223, 243 and 270 with it and it worked well. TCG

[geargnasher]

Ok, I found it! I was totally off. It was 357Maximum's thread, and it was Bullseye.

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?t=76956&highlight=30-30+bullseye

Gear

[Centaur 1]

There's a 22 page thread on loading light bullets in the 30-30 over on the Marlinowners website. They even have some buckshot loads as well.

http://www.marlinowners.com/forums/index.php/topic,41593.0.html

[ReloaderEd]

We used to shoot pipsqueek loads on our indoor range in Vancouver, Washington.
Most guys and gals used 3 to 5 grs. of bullseye pistol powder, a tuff of dacron pillow stuff and they were quite accurate. Pistol primers can be used too. Be Safe, wear safety glasses and have fun. :-?

[rintinglen]

I have shot a whole bunch of 311-419s that weigh in at about 88 grains over 8 grains of Herco or Unique out of several 30-30's with excellent short range accuracy. I tried some .311round balls with somewhat problematic results. 8 or nine would group pretty well, but one or two would be wildly out of the group, often by 4 inchs or more. My 1957 Cast Bullet Guide lists a load of 3.5 grains of Bullseye with a 311-245 95 grain bullet, while the 311-252 is recommended as "fine for indoors at 25 yards" with a TWO grain charge of Bullseye-- that must be getting down in the "cat's sneeze" range.

[Rocky Raab]

I have never loaded the 30-30 that way, but I used to load a single buckshot in a .308 for backyard pests. I found 3.5 Bullseye to be accurate, but a little louder than I wanted. I got down to 1.5 grains without a problem.

I found virtually no difference using several flake shotgun powders, by the way. Bullseye, RedDot, AA453 (it was long ago) and Unique all worked about the same. I used rifle primers because I didn't think to try pistol.

[HORNET]

Try a search under "cat sneeze loads". There have been a few discussions of different methods. Or you could go the Gluelits route.

[randyrat]

Trail Boss....I wished one could ship powder..I would send you a little.
IMO, it works great for light loads. While I haven't loaded any 30-30, I have loaded 223, 243 and 270 with it and it worked well. TCG I am tempted to try some TB for the fact it fills the case up more than others so I think it would be a great for plinkin cat sneese loads. The OO buck footballs weigh out at a meesly 53.5 grains WOW won't take much powder to make them sizzle down range.

[oldhickory]

Didn't Junior do a tutorial on shooting buckshot in a .30WCF? I looked, but can't find anything.

Just going on feable memory, I think he pan lubed them, let them harden. used a minute charge of Bullseye, thumb pressed them in and that was about it. I would use a small tuft of Dacron, but since he was shooting squirrels, he didn't bother as the muzzle would be up anyway.

I haven't messed with the .30WCF yet, but I found 3.5gr. of Red Dot to be very accurate under a .32WCF boolit sized to .309 in a .30/06.

[rhead]

Didn't Junior do a tutorial on shooting buckshot in a .30WCF? I looked, but can't find anything.

Just going on feable memory, I think he pan lubed them, let them harden. used a minute charge of Bullseye, thumb pressed them in and that was about it. I would use a small tuft of Dacron, but since he was shooting squirrels, he didn't bother as the muzzle would be up anyway.

I haven't messed with the .30WCF yet, but I found 3.5gr. of Red Dot to be very accurate under a .32WCF boolit sized to .309 in a .30/06.

I think that that is an article that he has posted on his sight. Sorry I do not have a link.

Trailboss should be a fine powder for this application. I have never had a problem using Unique and never bothered to change. I work up slowly until the point of impact at 25 yards matches my hunting load. Not quite the most accurate but very adequate. Squirrel heads out to 30 yards or a bit more is by baseline.

[mroliver77]

Bulls Eye is the powder for this! It lites easy and burns well with very little pressure. I use a tuft of dacron to hold powder back. I dont worry about any air space with a 3 gr ob BE charge and 50ish gr RB.
With my cases filled with lead and a .30 cal hole drilled back to primer no dacron is needed and multiple balls can be used! With this setup I ave got down to 3/4 gr BE successfully. It helps to enlarge the flash hole for the very wimpy loads.
Jay

[XWrench3]

I wished one could ship powder..

well, you can. it will just cost 3 times as much as if he went to the local gunsmith and bought an entire bottle! i DESPISE those "HAZ-MAT" charges. all they are doing is making us pay extra because they CAN!

[Dannix]

If this hasn't been posted already:
http://www.castbullet.com/shooting/rb30.htm

[oldhickory]

If this hasn't been posted already:
http://www.castbullet.com/shooting/rb30.htm

That's it! There's Junior's article. Thanks for posting it.:smile:

[Dannix]

No problem. :) I've got 30-30 'squirrel' loads on my to-try list.

[randyrat]

AAAHHH Thanks for reminding me about Juniors web site. I read that a while ago. It's book marked this time. The only difference is I'm using 00 which is slightly larger diameter and heavier. I bought some felt wads from Junior at one time.

[geargnasher]

I suggested the Dacron not so much as to keep the powder against the "coals" (not necessary with BE or RD), but to help seal the bore and prevent leading. One might even roll up a "pill" of the stuff like a pea, stuff it in the neck, put a dab of Felix lube on top, and seat the b.s. on top of that. The Dacron pill would act as a lubed wad if it would stay in the neck.

Gear

[geargnasher]

Bulls Eye is the powder for this! It lites easy and burns well with very little pressure. I use a tuft of dacron to hold powder back. I dont worry about any air space with a 3 gr ob BE charge and 50ish gr RB.
With my cases filled with lead and a .30 cal hole drilled back to primer no dacron is needed and multiple balls can be used! With this setup I ave got down to 3/4 gr BE successfully. It helps to enlarge the flash hole for the very wimpy loads.
Jay

Now THAT'S pretty neat. I was wondering about reducing the case capacity of my .30-'06 for shooting 115-grain PB boolits at varmints at .32 rimfire velocities, sounds like the lead-filled-and-drilled case is the answer. At such low pressures I wouldn't be concerned about the hot lead annealing the case head much.

Gear

[Papa Jack]

I sized up a few OO buck shot to .309 They look like little foot balls. My intention was to load them in a super light 30-30 load. Whats a good load to start with.
Bullseye? Unique? or other fast burning pistol powders. Intent is for 10 yd plinkin fun or self/property defense against squirrels.
Ringing the chamber? is there potential

I have a Savage 24V single shot, (.30-30 over 20 Ga.) I like to load the .310" dia. Hornady Round balls ( 45 grains ) . These shoot really good and are very quiet.

I load 3 grains of Red Dot, I use a 1/4 square of Single ply Toilet paper for a over powder wad. Tap it down against the powder firmly.
CCI primer, and seat the ball down just below the case opening in the neck. I then smear a little bullet lube or grease over the end of the case.

Mine shoot nice and quiet and are pretty accurate. You can experiment with powders, I think I have used Unique and green dot too. Seems like the Red Dot shoots pretty clean. I don't notice leading, mostly grease in the barrel. I used some old GI Graphite Grease over the ball before I got to casting bullets.
These are good Rat rounds.... Have fun !! "Papa Jack"

PS: I have fired over 150 of these rounds, I never had any Chamber Ringing....

[mroliver77]

Gear, I set case in water to keep head cool. As lon as you dont get carried away they work great. I think for the 06 I would dril a two diameter hole. One 30 cal mebbe 1" deep and the rest of the way flash hole size.

[Dannix]

Hum, this may be a good use of zinc ww's.



Bulls Eye is the powder for this! It lites easy and burns well with very little pressure. I use a tuft of dacron to hold powder back. I dont worry about any air space with a 3 gr ob BE charge and 50ish gr RB.
With my cases filled with lead and a .30 cal hole drilled back to primer no dacron is needed and multiple balls can be used! With this setup I ave got down to 3/4 gr BE successfully. It helps to enlarge the flash hole for the very wimpy loads.
Jay
Now THAT'S pretty neat. I was wondering about reducing the case capacity of my .30-'06 for shooting 115-grain PB boolits at varmints at .32 rimfire velocities, sounds like the lead-filled-and-drilled case is the answer. At such low pressures I wouldn't be concerned about the hot lead annealing the case head much.

Gear

[Papa Jack]

Wonder if a guy could get away with using JB weld to use up some case capacity ? You only need to neck size the cases after firing, should work fine. Drills good, I'm sure it'll take that small amount of heat of the powder and primer....Might be worth a try.
"PJ"

[mpmarty]

Shucks fellas, they already sell a reducing adapter to shoot 32acp rounds in 06 and 308 why worry about drilling filled cases?

[mcskipper1]

My set-up is: .313" Dia. Round Ball=45 Gr. Bullseye 2.0 Gr. A 1" Sq of quilt batting over the powder. Push the ball flat with the end of the case.
Put bullet lube around the round ball.

700.6 Ft/Sec. from a 10" Contender.

[randyrat]

Papa Jack wrote-I load 3 grains of Red Dot, I use a 1/4 square of Single ply Toilet paper for a over powder wad. Tap it down against the powder firmly.
CCI primer, and seat the ball down just below the case opening in the neck. I then smear a little bullet lube or grease over the end of the case.

Do you tap the filler down and do you leave space between the filler and the projectile?

[deltaenterprizes]

Great thread with lots of interesting info!

[geargnasher]

I like the JB weld idea, too. Might have to try that, too. I wouldn't be a bit concerned about the heat. Also, a core could be made from a steel rod turned to the desired internal dimensions and coated with mould release.

Gear

[Papa Jack]

Papa Jack wrote-I load 3 grains of Red Dot, I use a 1/4 square of Single ply Toilet paper for a over powder wad. Tap it down against the powder firmly.
CCI primer, and seat the ball down just below the case opening in the neck. I then smear a little bullet lube or grease over the end of the case.

Do you tap the filler down and do you leave space between the filler and the projectile?

Yep, just tamp it down and load the ball and grease it and shoot it....I have not had any split cases or ringed chambers, they shoot good....
When the kids were little, thats the load I used for them to shoot beer cans....
If you are Fortunate enough to have TWO PLY tp......Some are soooo lucky ! I take the two ply and pull the plys apart, then just cut the squares into equal parts, poke the wad down with a pencil....or a dowel ....
I also have a chamber adapter to shoot .32 H&R Magnum in a .30-30, it works great too, using the Lee cast round nose 100 grn (?).. "PJ"

[Papa Jack]

Shucks fellas, they already sell a reducing adapter to shoot 32acp rounds in 06 and 308 why worry about drilling filled cases?

Hey speaking of these chamber reducers..... Sportsmans Guide has had them in the last couple catalogs for I think $15.00....might be wrong.
These are to fit 7.62 X54R Russian, .303 Brittish and I think another that I cannot recall. You might want to get them up on line and take a look ,they may still have some.
I have one made by the guy in Alaska, .30-30 X .32 H&R Magnum, shoots good, I'm using the Lee 100 grain ( 90 grn ??) RN boolit.
Not as easy to shoot as the round ball loads because you have to take the adapter out, then poke the fired case out, reload and repeat....

Have fun..... "PJ"

[Centaur 1]

I've been thinking about the JB Weld Idea. At first I was thinking that it would be a lot easier to drill than lead. My only concern would be if chunks of the material were to break free, and just lie in the barrel. I think that I'd be worried about that chunk working as a barrel obstruction. I don't think that the heat would be the problem, but rather the concussive forces at ignition.

[Papa Jack]

I've been thinking about the JB Weld Idea. At first I was thinking that it would be a lot easier to drill than lead. My only concern would be if chunks of the material were to break free, and just lie in the barrel. I think that I'd be worried about that chunk working as a barrel obstruction. I don't think that the heat would be the problem, but rather the concussive forces at ignition.

You may be correct, certainly something to keep in mind. That case will swell for an instant as the powder goes off, causing the JB to break contact with the brass.
I suppose a guy could try a couple shots and see what happens. Nice to have a single shot so the barrel can be checked after firing.
I just got to thinking about the primer flash hole....If the case is partially filled, that means you would have to hand de-prime each case . No big deal, just time. Getting a good lite on the powder may be a problem, primer flash only goes so far. This could be a trial and error as to just how far to FILL the case. And what if powder gets into the flash hole "tube" and ignites ? I dunno...Just have to try it I guess. Maybe the powder burning in the flash hole tube would help ignite the main charge ...

I think in one of my Cast Bullet books there is an article about reducing the case capacity of 45-70 or 458 cases, using .223 cases If I remember right. If I get a chance I will look that up and post it ,in case some one is interested..... "PJ":popcorn:

[HORNET]

Gear, If you're still thinking about using JB Weld on those .30 calibers, you might chase down a piece of 5/16 diameter Delrin or UHMWPE rod instead of the steel rod. It would get you the correct inside diameter without any drilling and the epoxy won't stick to it. JB Weld is some very tough stuff and I'd think it would hold up for several shots.
PJ, I think Jim Carmichael(sp?) wrote about using .223 based volume reducers in .308 or .30-06 cases. I think he also mentioned an intent to try for a collapsible plastic sleeve so you wouldn't need to open the case mouth to .375 for installation and then neck it back down. I never saw any test results on a plastic sleeve ,though.

[Rocky Raab]

All this sounds like a terribly tedious solution to a non-existent problem. Just drop in a pinch of Bullseye or Nitro 100 or Solo 1000 or Clays or TiteGroup or RedDot or American Select or GreenDot or W231. Then seat the lubed buckshot and shoot 'em.

I've never had a problem with ignition or anything else doing it the easy way.

[DCP]

Lots of info here

Read it all

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?t=86949


This site has a wealth of information.

http://guns.connect.fi/gow/arcane1.html

[Papa Jack]

Gear, If you're still thinking about using JB Weld on those .30 calibers, you might chase down a piece of 5/16 diameter Delrin or UHMWPE rod instead of the steel rod. It would get you the correct inside diameter without any drilling and the epoxy won't stick to it. JB Weld is some very tough stuff and I'd think it would hold up for several shots.
PJ, I think Jim Carmichael(sp?) wrote about using .223 based volume reducers in .308 or .30-06 cases. I think he also mentioned an intent to try for a collapsible plastic sleeve so you wouldn't need to open the case mouth to .375 for installation and then neck it back down. I never saw any test results on a plastic sleeve ,though.

Gear, You are correct sir, I just looked up that article and it is by Jim Carmichel, and he is working on reducing powder capacity of the .30-06 Case using "de-rimmed" .223 rem. cases inserted into the 06 cases after expanding the case mouths to .375...
Info: "Cast Bullets: A case for Accuracy" by Jim Carmichel" from Handloader magazine.
This article is reprinted in "The Art of Bullet Casting from Handloader & Rifle Magazines 1966-1981" available from Wolf Publishing Company. I think these are still avail, in updated form, on CD.... "PJ"

[x101airborne]

I was so impressed by this, I went and tried it. My buckshot loads are pretty old and have spent a season in the salt, so i didn't mind cutting two loads open. One was 000 and one was 00. The 000 gave the best group .35 at 30 yards (my open sight limit for squirrels) and yielded a boolit weight of 60 gr. The 00 shot closest to sight picture but groups opened to about 3/4 an inch. no relative noise, and fun to boot!! My accuracy load was Win brass, Win lp primers, 1.5 gr bullseye and Winchester factory buckshot. i Thank the origional poster of this thread. now i can carry two loads in the woods for one rifle. Them corn stealin, tattle tailin, furry little tree rats better watch it.

[JIMinPHX]

Once upon a time, when I lived in a very restrictive state, I used to load up 90 grain Hornady XTP pistol bullets in a .30-30 to hunt ground hogs. They're not as cheap as buckshot, but they could be loaded down pretty far, being a bullet that was designed to operate at pistol pressures & velocities. The folks at Hornady were pretty cooperative about giving me the info that I needed to get that combination to perform well.

[Thumbcocker]

Size "0" shot over 3 grns of red dot works well for me in .30-30 and .30-40 just roll them around in lla and load half way down. They will function through levers. I tried Hornaday swaged .32 HBWC's but the shot loads were more accurate. Next up is the soup can over the same charge. Final cheap load is 311291 over 6.o of red dot in .30-30 sans gas check. Your resized 00 shot is what Frank Marshal called a swaged oblong ball. I just use size 0 shot to keep things simple.

[randyrat]

Alright! I found my bag of Kapok! I took an old life jacket apart a couple years ago and put the kapok in a bag, figuring I'll use it some day.
I'm going to start with some fast pistol powder and plan on using filler right away. Range report will follow. Wishing[smilie=1: I didn't shoot my chronograph now.

[x101airborne]

1.5gr bullseye, pistol primer, winchester case, and sized 00 buck. 4 rounds touching at 30 yards. No filler needed, apparently.

[Rocky Raab]

As I said above, simple is best. Way to go, 101.

[randyrat]

Well, you all made sit back and think about this.
One of the reasons I make these are, I take my boy and sometimes a couple new shooters with me to the range. I go over the rules of the range/shooting/safety and turn them loose on their own shooting bench with a hundred to two hundred of these mouse loads. I hate to ruin a new shooter with heavy recoil and noise so these light bullets work great.
Well, I don't have the time to load a bunch of rounds with filler and we're not shooting any competition.
So simple is good, real good.

[geargnasher]

If they work well without filler and an extra dollop of lube all the better. I was only suggesting it because it can act as a lube swab and gas check with ultra-light loads, and I figured your super-soft b.s. with not much bearing surface and no lube groove needed all the help it could get to seal the bore and keep leading down.

Gear

[Dannix]

1.5gr bullseye, pistol primer, winchester case, and sized 00 buck. 4 rounds touching at 30 yards. No filler needed, apparently.
Why use pistol primer instead of rifle? I'm seen it done before, just curious. Thanks

[nanuk]

I just read an article in an old NRA Illustrated RELOADING HANDBOOK (1960?)
very interesting

[x101airborne]

Why use pistol primer instead of rifle? I'm seen it done before, just curious. Thanks

Well, im not sure...... just one of those things i tried and it worked. i read on here of people often using pistol primers with pistol powders and tried it. i think it was gearnasher possibly who explained that loads under 40,000 cup may respond well to pistol primer substitution. well, that seems like a majority of my cast loads.

dang i love this buckshot thing.....

45nut..... is this still goin sticky?

[Dannix]

I'm calculating a single 00 buck pellet at about 4.5 cents a pop, albeit that's based on a 5lb Hornady bag on Midway. Anyone else crunched the numbers?

[x101airborne]

Well, no i havent. I just use the buckshot that I carry all year on my boat, so the cost is negligable and excusable for me.

[HORNET]

Dannix, if you want to cut the cost a little more, Lee has an 18 cavity buckshot mold for $62 (#90486) http://www.leeprecision.com/cgi/catalog/browse.cgi?1291381708.1659=/html/catalog/blackpow.html#shotgun
There's some discussion in this thread: http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?t=99709
Oh, the pistol primers CAN give a little better accuracy in some loads. Apparently due to more moderate powder ignition. It's yet another one of those things that you can play with.

[Dannix]

Thanks Hornet. I'll pick up a box of pistol primers to tinker with then. I'm actually thinking about picking up BRP's 32ACP mold -- both for my 32ACP and for 30-30 plinking loads. Unfortunately I'm not in a situation where I can cast right now, so that's on hold. Hopefully budget will allow me to get in on the .30 cal "soup can" GB, and pick up a 110/130 grain mold for the 30-30.