Red Dot or Scope?

[dk17hmr]

Looks like I will be getting a 45lc barrel for my contender. It is a scope only barrel, it is not drilled for iron sights. Im not sure what way to go with it, I have a 2x scope on my 30herrett barrel and like it, I have used Red dots on AR15s and like them also. I plan on using the 45 barrel for big game hunting out to 125 yards or so and p-dog shooting out to however far I can see them.

Suggestions please.

What do you guys like and dislike?

[Whitworth]

I personally prefer red dots to scopes. They are much better in low-light. I use Ultradot red dots -- they are inexpensive, tough as nails, and come with a lifetime warranty. What's not to like?

[Newtire]

There's a guy who shoots a Contender up at our range. He just brings a sheet of notebook paper with little black circles on it and shoots these amazingly small groups all day long.

I asked him which scope to get and he said Bushnell 2X6 so I got one and it's worked fine on a Taurus .44 mag for a couple hundred shots now. I had a Swift that shot loose inside and Swift told me "tough luck" on the warranty question I had-nor do they do repairs...No more Swift for me!

I tried a couple of red dots and the cheaper large size ones had big time parallax troubles so are about worse than worthless. The little 28 or even the 30 mm Bushnell Trophy ones I have are great! I just have used them on .32's though so don't know how well they hold up.

[oldhickory]

I have 2 red dot sights, a cheap BSA and a much better Ultra Dot. Both work very well on either of the auto pistols I have mounts for, a 1911A1 and a Ruger standard model .22. On a Contender I think I would prefer a scope, those dots cover a lot of target past 25yds.

[white eagle]

I had a red dot tasco and had t mounted on my 44
it came apart and dont work
I won't be in a hurry to buy another :(

[44man]

Can't shoot small groups with an Ultra Dot---get real! :Fire:
How about 3 shots working loads at 50 yards with a BFR .500 JRH?
It is the greatest hunting sight ever and they have NO parallax and can be shot off hand without the silly wiggles screwing up your mind.

[ole 5 hole group]

Scopes are great but the red dots don't exactly take a back seat. On a 500 Smith, 454 BFR and FA 45 Colt (32mm scope is too large to use on a short barrel FA so you have to go with a 20mm objective) I've used both the Leupold 2.5X8X32 and Delta Point and both have held up just fine to the recoil. Advantage of the Delta Point is the weight - 1/2 ounce. Use the tip of the Delta Point at 6 o'clock for load workup/accuracy and it will run with the scope out to 100 yards. Little pricey but you only go around once and Leupold has a lifetime warranty just in case ole man Murphy decides to come along.

[bobthenailer]

for 50 yards or so i would choose the red dot even though you can hit well at longer ranges to at least 150 yards. if the animal is in a open area , however if the shooting is beyond 50 yards in the woods you may need the scope to see through the openings in the trees where you can see only part of the animal . but a 2x scope or a red dot are about equal in utility! for over 75 yards id use a variable power pistol scope.
its the same old problem carry a short handy rifle and you see them beyond 250 yards , carry the long range rifle weighing 3lbs more and a10 inch longer barrel and you see them close!
i have the same set up with my hunting pistols one with a red dot and the other with a 1 1/2 x 4 pistol scope . and decide which one to use by where im hunting and hope i made the right decision .
i can shoot a red dot more accuratly off hand than i can a scope ! but ive done pretty well with scopes that ive had the duplex crosshairs changed to target dots

[white eagle]

Ok Boys
I went out on a limb and ordered a Ultra dot
sure hope they is as good as you say they are

[Shooter6br]

Ultra dots rule. All others may have a 1 year warrenty not lifetime.Quality scopes

[winelover]

Armson / Trijicon red-dots or Reflex sights![smilie=1: All the advantages of the Ultra Dots without the battery hassles.:groner: No rheostats to fiddle with when shooting light changes either.:violin:

Winelover:drinks:

[44man]

Armson / Trijicon red-dots or Reflex sights![smilie=1: All the advantages of the Ultra Dots without the battery hassles.:groner: No rheostats to fiddle with when shooting light changes either.:violin:

Winelover:drinks:
True, but a guy needs to be rich! [smilie=l:
I do not turn my Ultra Dot on until I see a deer and shut it off when not in use or between targets. I am still using the original battery after 5 years or more.

[dk17hmr]

I guess I will have to look into Ultra Dots a bit more.

I dont have problems with trees getting in the way where I ussally hunt antelope or deer.

http://i48.photobucket.com/albums/f208/dk17hmr/NEF/DSCN2119.jpg

[Stork]

You will love the Ultra Dot. I have 6 of them on a variety of pistols including one mounted on the slide of my 45. That one in particular has had over 35,000 rounds fired through it.

I have used and seen a lot of different brand of dots, parallax is a big issue with every one I've used except for the Ultra dot.

Don't be too worried about battery usage. My batteries last for about a year & a half. That is getting used a couple of hours every week practicing and at least one match a month where it stays on for 5 hours at a crack. Then you also have the times when you forget to turn them off. I can't tell you how many times I've put my pistols away with the dot on and then come back several days later to find them still on, they still last at least a year. A few years back I left one on for 2 weeks by mistake, it still lasted a year.

My prairie doggin buddy and I have a contest every summer to see who can take the longest prairie dog with our Ruger MKII's. So far he's in the lead with 182 yards.

FWIW

[winelover]

True, but a guy needs to be rich! [smilie=l:
.

If I were rich, I wouldn't be on this forum with all the other "cheapskates"! My 6 Armson OEG's were about $100 a piece when I purchased them. Reflex's were in the $300 range when they first came out.

Winelover

[ole 5 hole group]

Ultra dots rule. All others may have a 1 year warrenty not lifetime.Quality scopes

The Leupold Delta Point has a lifetime warranty for materials & workmanship. The electronics on that reflex sight has a 2 year warranty. If a problem arises, Leupold has a reputation of taking care of it and usually "warranty" isn't a factor. I would think somehow all of that is figured into the initial cost.

Doug - that Wyoming setup looks pretty good - all you need is a good pad to sit/lay on to keep the cactus and everything else out there from raising cane with parts of your anatomy.

[Whitworth]

Armson / Trijicon red-dots or Reflex sights![smilie=1: All the advantages of the Ultra Dots without the battery hassles.:groner: No rheostats to fiddle with when shooting light changes either.:violin:

Winelover:drinks:

What battery hasles would that be? I have had my Ultradot 30 for four years and I still have the original battery in it! I carry spares, but have yet to need one.

[Stork]

What battery hasles would that be? I have had my Ultradot 30 for four years and I still have the original battery in it! I carry spares, but have yet to need one.

I normally change mine out every year, just because I'm paranoid about one giving out during a match. I jot the month & year on the battery top with a sharpie. Normally changed in late June or July so they're fresh for Camp Perry.

I've never tried this, but I'm thinking of testing a few batteries in a couple of UD's and turn them on until they finally give up the ghost. I'll have to try a really cheap one and a top of the line and just see what they will do.

I'll run this & report back.

FWIW

[winelover]

What battery hasles would that be? I have had my Ultradot 30 for four years and I still have the original battery in it! I carry spares, but have yet to need one.

Well let's see.:???: First of all, since you can't leave it on all the time (unlike Armson), you have to turn it on. Second. If you turn it on, you have to REMEMBER to turn it off. If you forget, guess what-- DEAD BATTERY! Then throw in Murphy's law and try to find one when your out in Bum F**k Egypt. OK, you carry spares. You'd better test them cause they don't last forever. Don't leave them in your hunting truck either, might be a long walk back, not to mention spooking the game on your trek back. I have a Leo with a lighted reticle. PITA. I'm aware of all the problems with battery optics. Besides, when I pick up a gun for hunting or home defense, I want it to be ready NOW. I'm not gonna waste precious moments turning on optics!

Winelover:popcorn:

[Dale53]

When my vision went south, I tried a Red Dot on a revolver. Shortly, I had a dozen of them. I have come to prefer 30mm size as "perfect" (wider field of view than the 1" models and doesn't "over balance" the revolver like the larger ones do). I was able to buy a number of Simmons Red Dots for less than $50.00 each. They work quite well and have held up on the lighter recoiling revolvers (.44 Magnum and under). For the heavy hitters, I have a couple of Ultra Dots. The UD's are definitely superior regarding recoil damage but they cost four times as much. Kind of a "Horses for courses" situation to me.

As a result of the Red Dot Sights, my performance on the range has been my best for years!! I shot my best this year - a 97x100 slow fire at 25 yards (and on the slow fire target, too). That won't impress our Master Class Pistol shooters, but for a "certified old fart" it's pretty dern satisfying.

Regarding the batteries:

You can go to a local source and pay as much as $3.50-$5.00 each (a 2032) or you can buy them in bulk from "Battery Bob.com" and get them for less than a dollar each (good brands, too).

Dale53

[white eagle]

sounds like no battery problems to me :arrow:
just personal preference :razz:

[Char-Gar]

I have a red dot Burris on my match 22 pistol. It works very, very well and does not maganify the wobble. Just sight it in, put the dot where you want the bullet to go and pull the trigger. Cost is about $200.00

[98Redline]

Another vote for the UltraDot right here.

I have one on my SBH Bisley Hunter .44Mag and it is a very nice sight.

One thing I noticed about the UD as compared to some of the other sights is that just because the glass is larger, does not necessarily mean the viewing angle is any better. I looked through a 30mm red dot at one of the big box stores awhile ago. I was astounded at how small the field of view was. Much of what I thought would be extra FOV area was essentially showing me the internals of the red dot. My 30mm UltraDot looks like I am looking through a ring. I have darn near the full field of view of the 30mm diameter.

BTW: for those that think that the red dot may not be accurate enough for your needs, take a look at the Match Dot. It allows the switching of the MOA of the dot all the way down to 2 MOA. It does not cover that much of the target even at 100 yds.

[Whitworth]

Well let's see.:???: First of all, since you can't leave it on all the time (unlike Armson), you have to turn it on. Second. If you turn it on, you have to REMEMBER to turn it off. If you forget, guess what-- DEAD BATTERY! Then throw in Murphy's law and try to find one when your out in Bum F**k Egypt. OK, you carry spares. You'd better test them cause they don't last forever. Don't leave them in your hunting truck either, might be a long walk back, not to mention spooking the game on your trek back. I have a Leo with a lighted reticle. PITA. I'm aware of all the problems with battery optics. Besides, when I pick up a gun for hunting or home defense, I want it to be ready NOW. I'm not gonna waste precious moments turning on optics!

Winelover:popcorn:

You just have to train yourself to turn it off when not in use -- I learned that I have to pull the hammer back before I make a shot at an animal as well. Hell, if I can do it, nearly anyone here can.......:bigsmyl2:

[winelover]

You just have to train yourself to turn it off when not in use -- I learned that I have to pull the hammer back before I make a shot at an animal as well. Hell, if I can do it, nearly anyone here can.......:bigsmyl2:

I must be an OLD DOG cause I can't learn new tricks! I see we disagree on something else. I don't have to cock the hammer on my Redhawk since I ONLY shoot it double action.[smilie=f: Us OLD DOGS don't seem to go for wasted motions.:wink: Have only one single action revolver (45LC BH) and the last and it's the wife's. All the rest are doubles.

Winelover[smilie=s:

[44man]

Turning the light on becomes second nature just like cocking the hammer. I turn it on when I see deer coming and after the shot, just turn it off again without thinking about it.
Same on the range, shoot a group, turn the light off.
Now I don't know how long a tritium sight lasts but seem to remember the life used to be 5 years. Fiber optics also go out when the light gets too dim.
Now where we hunt, most deer are not seen until they are there and I have not had a problem even on a deer that is running past, the light is automatic.
Field of view is huge because you use both eyes to acquire a target, just like a rifle scope. The only thing 30mm does is let you pick up the dot faster in the tube.

[Whitworth]

I must be an OLD DOG cause I can't learn new tricks! I see we disagree on something else. I don't have to cock the hammer on my Redhawk since I ONLY shoot it double action.[smilie=f: Us OLD DOGS don't seem to go for wasted motions.:wink: Have only one single action revolver (45LC BH) and the last and it's the wife's. All the rest are doubles.

Winelover[smilie=s:

So, you're telling me that when you hunt with your Redhawk, you shoot it double action???????!!!!! You are a better man than me! :shock:

[winelover]

So, you're telling me that when you hunt with your Redhawk, you shoot it double action???????!!!!! You are a better man than me! :shock:

That be the case. However I hunt in heavy cover and shots over 25 yards are not the norm. They make rifles / carbines for longer shots. IMO

Winelover:drinks:

[bobthenailer]

i also like the ultra dots ! and own 2 , my one problem with them is the small field of view even with the 30 mm tube . when compaired to all of my other 30mm red dots ! and i have many of them from the same price range and higher . l presently have about 25 red dot sights

[winelover]

Now I don't know how long a tritium sight lasts but seem to remember the life used to be 5 years. Fiber optics also go out when the light gets too dim.
Now where we hunt, most deer are not seen until they are there and I have not had a problem even on a deer that is running past, the light is automatic.
Field of view is huge because you use both eyes to acquire a target, just like a rifle scope. The only thing 30mm does is let you pick up the dot faster in the tube.

Mine have lasted over 10 years before I noticed them dimming. They never went completely out probably due to the fiber optics. For 30 bucks, you get another 10 to 12 years of constant readiness. BTW you have to use the OEG's with both eyes open since you cannot see thru the tube so field of view is unlimited. I like them so well I have them on 2 bows, a RH and BK, a slug bbl 12 guage 1100 and a MK II auto. No problems with recoil either. Because of short distance between the oculars , you must be creative with mounting.

Winelover:coffeecom

[white eagle]

Just got my Ultradot so far so good
I like the weight and its easy to use
Tomorrow the sight in
would you sight it in high at 30 yds
I was thinking of 1-2"obove the poa @ 30

[Dale53]

I sight my hunting revolvers with scopes or Red Dots in at fifty yards. I then shoot them at 100 yards and 75 yards to see where they hit. That works well for me. You do NOT want to be so "out of it" that you miss a close shot (I have taken deer from 10 yards to 85 yards with my handguns).

Dale53

[Whitworth]

Just got my Ultradot so far so good
I like the weight and its easy to use
Tomorrow the sight in
would you sight it in high at 30 yds
I was thinking of 1-2"obove the poa @ 30

I sight it in about an inch high at 50 yards.

[frankenfab]

Ok, I'm In! Where's the cheapest place to get an Ultradot?[smilie=w:

[Whitworth]

Ok, I'm In! Where's the cheapest place to get an Ultradot?[smilie=w:

Order it from Ultradot West (www.ultradotwest.com) and you should have it at your door in a couple of days.

[dk17hmr]

So which Ultra Dot? They have several models.

[Whitworth]

I personally like the Ultradot 30.

[Frank]

The Matchdot has the smaller dot, but it had to go back due to lense distortion. But that was after a thousand rounds in the BFR 45-70. I don't know why it did that, but Ultradot fixed it. The Pan-V ate the front mount bolt and had some elevation issues. But again, Ulradot fixed it.

The Pan-V now has a longer bolt by Ultradot so it'll probably stay on. If not, I know what to do. I might just put it on a lighter recoiling pistol, since it's so nice.
One benefit I notice with the Pan-V is a clearer dot than the tube sight. I think this is due to more light gathering with an open sight causing the iris to get smaller so we all have a natural peep sight. But there is trade-off, the mount is weaker. But if something happens, the company is great and takes care of it.

[Whitworth]

It's the shear ruggedness of the Ultradot 30 that has me sold. Thousands of full-tilt .475 loads and hundreds of .500 JRH and it has never even hiccuped.

[44man]

I bought a lot of the cheaper ones over the years, Bushnell and Simmons, even the .44 would eventually pull the front prism out.
They are glued in with cheap Chinese glue. I had to steel bed a lot of them back in. Need to make sure they are in the exact right position. I bought a rubber strap wrench to take the things apart.
Then I made the mistake of putting the ring over the very front glass and broke it even before the ring was tight. (Bushnell.)
Scared me off so now I put the extension on the Ultra Dots and put front rings on it.
I stay away from all glass.
I found a Swift 2X scope on sale and after reading 2 pages about how tough it is, I put it on my .475. Three shots gutted it real nice! The replacement is on my .22. :mrgreen:
A friend gave me a Tasco 2X and that thing is TOUGH, nothing hurts it, the tube is extremely strong but it has large cross hairs and a large dot, larger then the Ultra Dot.
I have a Burris variable, put it on my .44 and ruined the tube. It is dead soft and the scope is heavy. NOTHING held it, three rings, tape, rosin, lapped rings, you name it. The tube looks like it was run through a reducing die.
I found that I could not find the cross hairs or deer with a scope at all in the mornings and evenings, had to wait for full light when the deer were gone for the day.
I have ruined so many things on revolvers that I am afraid to buy anything but the Ultra Dot. I called Magnum Research and they said it is all they use, good enough for me.
I have a Leupold 4X I bought back in the 60's that has been on many, many guns and it is still perfect but it is still too dark to hunt with. I use it to test loads once in a while. It has a target turret.
It was a long learning curve so I hate to stray. My guns just have too much recoil.

[Frank]

44man: "I have a Leupold 4X I bought back in the 60's that has been on many, many guns and it is still perfect but it is still too dark to hunt with. I use it to test loads once in a while. It has a target turret. "

I like the Leupold FXII scope. I think lenses must have gotten much better. It does everything right. A clear image, small reticle, magnification, adjustable eye relief, reliability, precision elevation and windage adjustments and light gathering.

[44man]

44man: "I have a Leupold 4X I bought back in the 60's that has been on many, many guns and it is still perfect but it is still too dark to hunt with. I use it to test loads once in a while. It has a target turret. "

I like the Leupold FXII scope. I think lenses must have gotten much better. It does everything right. A clear image, small reticle, magnification, adjustable eye relief, reliability, precision elevation and windage adjustments and light gathering.
Have to remember most scopes for pistols top out at a 5mm exit pupil but that is far from your eye and will scatter. That leaves less light to enter your eye.
It would be nice if the light was a 5mm rod to the eye but only a laser can do that.
Rifle scopes are close to the eye and a very large objective can create much more light then the eye can use so you can see in pretty dark conditions even with wasted light. The average eye can only use 5mm but that is right at the eye. Get real far from the source and you might get 1mm or less. A dark hole!

[Frank]

Red dots get dark very quickly also. Remember, with the scope you're looking through multi-coated optics, not plastic lenses.

[white eagle]

Well back from the range and I am fairly impressed
far better than I thought it would be
do you guys use the extra tubes filters
I know 44 you said you did but how about he filter ?

[44man]

Well back from the range and I am fairly impressed
far better than I thought it would be
do you guys use the extra tubes filters
I know 44 you said you did but how about he filter ?
No, just the tube for mounting length. Those other things are funny and some darken the view. They might be OK shooting target in the bright sun.

[Dale53]

Both of my hunting revolvers are scoped .44 magnums (a Model 29 S&W 8 3/8" barrel and a Ruger RedHawk 7½" barrel). The Smith is my favorite because of it's trigger. However, I choose the Ruger in bad weather.

I have mostly used 250 gr cast Keith bullets (429421 and now MiHec H&G #503. My practice load is 23.0 grs of H110 and my hunting load is 24.0 grs of H110. These two loads give me 1200 fps and 1300 fps. My thinking is that the practice load gives me enough recoil to make my practice meaningful without over stressing the revolver (the Smith). I have over 10,000 rounds through the Smith so my plan is working.

I have a Leupold 2 power scope on one and a Burris "big dot" on the other. Both scopes have given exemplary service. However, I prefer the big dot on the Burris compared to the Leupold duplex reticle for hunting.

http://i269.photobucket.com/albums/jj80/Dale53/DalesPistolsRevolvers5Selects-2.jpg

http://i269.photobucket.com/albums/jj80/Dale53/DalesPistolsRevolvers5Selects-2-3.jpg

Note: Both scopes are mounted "between the sights" and can be removed in really bad weather conditions to use the Pre-Zero'd iron sights.

I use the same holster rig for both of these revolvers - the Bianchi Hush System "cross chest". It gives full protection in heavy brush, is completely out of the way and works well when carrying a pack in rough country.

These days, I would probably use a Red Dot hunting. I have nearly a dozen Red Dot sights for range use and love them. I use Bushnell and Simmons Red Dot sights for the lighter recoiling handguns. I use Ultra Dots for my "big boomers".

44man and Whitworth have a LOT of experience and it would pay you to listen to them.

FWIW
Dale53

[sargenv]

I have a ... wow 20 year old Burris 1.5-4x LER sitting on my TC Super 14 in 30-30. When I was shooting Sillouette and doing the creedmore position, I would usually dial it to ~2.5x for the right balance of eye relief and magnification.. I crank it up to 4x for bench work and down to 1.5x for the close stuff.. It's been a really nice scope for me.. just plain jane cross hairs..

[Whitworth]

Very nice revolvers, Dale!

[Dale53]

whitworth;
Thank you, my friend! They have each accounted for several deer. They have been MORE than satisfactory.

Dale53

[Big Dave]

Bought a cheap red dot to try out befor spending more and finding I don,t like it.
It is going on a Blackhawk 61/2 inch 41 Mag. So far love the way it shoots but what do you use for a holster? Sure won't go in the old leather without a major cut away.

[Frank]

sargenv:"I have a ... wow 20 year old Burris 1.5-4x LER sitting on my TC Super 14 in 30-30. When I was shooting Sillouette and doing the creedmore position, I would usually dial it to ~2.5x for the right balance of eye relief and magnification.. I crank it up to 4x for bench work and down to 1.5x for the close stuff.. It's been a really nice scope for me.. just plain jane cross hairs.. "

I like the crosshairs and magnification. Also, no fuzzy dot. Rock solid, clear optics, never a problem, Made in America, not the orient. Too much wiggle? Using the scope reduces wiggle. It teaches you how to hold without wiggling. If you don't see the wiggle, there is nothing to work at that you can't see.

[Whitworth]

Also, no fuzzy dot. Rock solid, clear optics, never a problem, Made in America, not the orient. Too much wiggle? Using the scope reduces wiggle. It teaches you how to hold without wiggling. If you don't see the wiggle, there is nothing to work at that you can't see.

Which red dot have you used that had a fuzzy dot?

[ole 5 hole group]

I like the crosshairs and magnification. Also, no fuzzy dot. Rock solid, clear optics, never a problem, Made in America, not the orient. Too much wiggle? Using the scope reduces wiggle. It teaches you how to hold without wiggling. If you don't see the wiggle, there is nothing to work at that you can't see.

I look at it differently - using a scope will show you how much movement you have.

At 100 yards with a 500 Smith using a "solid" proper hold for the load - I watch that 2.5X8X32 Leupold crosshair set on 8X dance a jig around the 2" dot that’s my bullseye. I try and time it so the shot breaks when the crosshair is travelling toward the same general location for each shot.

Now using a powder puff load you can ease up on the grip to get a pretty steady x-hair. The red dot held at 6 o’clock on your target does a pretty good job.

The tip of my delta point at 6 o’clock makes for some small groups at long ranges and I’m once again a small “threat” to crows out to 150 yards instead of just being a “noisy” nuisance.

That fuzzy dot can be cured by seeing an eye doc

[Dale53]

>>>That fuzzy dot can be cured by seeing an eye doc<<<

Ole 5 hole group is "Spot on". When I got my first Red Dot, I was a bit mystified that my dot was not crisp and had a "tail" on it. Further investigation showed me the problem was with my eyesight and the glasses I was wearing. I was not focusing properly on the dot.

I changed that and have had no further problems with three different brands and two different sizes of Red Dot sights.

dale53

[Frank]

ole 5 hole group: "That fuzzy dot can be cured by seeing an eye doc ."

It's expensive to get an eye exam and a new set of lenses. But all that's going to do is make the dot as clear as the reticle. I already solved that problem with the Leupold.

These FXII handgun scopes are great, even at dusk. Things just get better. Optics with scopes evolved like eyeglass lenses. So with a scope, you get a better bang for the money than any prescription set of lenses.

[44man]

I have a ... wow 20 year old Burris 1.5-4x LER sitting on my TC Super 14 in 30-30. When I was shooting Sillouette and doing the creedmore position, I would usually dial it to ~2.5x for the right balance of eye relief and magnification.. I crank it up to 4x for bench work and down to 1.5x for the close stuff.. It's been a really nice scope for me.. just plain jane cross hairs..
I have used many Burris scopes but the one I have is very large, almost like a rifle scope. It is just too heavy for a revolver. It is a 2-1/2X7. I used it OK on single shots but a 320 gr .44 boolit is just too much.
A scope is great with a rest and enough light but are a bear off hand.
I wish I could find a 1X with finer cross hairs then they put on most.

[Frank]

ole 5 hole group: "At 100 yards with a 500 Smith using a "solid" proper hold for the load - I watch that 2.5X8X32 Leupold crosshair set on 8X dance a jig around the 2" dot that’s my bullseye. I try and time it so the shot breaks when the crosshair is travelling toward the same general location for each shot. "

I've noticed lately I've become much steadier. Now there is no need to time any shot. Say at 50 yds, sometimes the reticle strays. But I can keep it there for a few seconds while I am squeezing. You can only see this with a scope.

[snowwolfe]

Ultradot = faster target pick up and no eye relief.
Scope = slower to pick up target and eye relief is critical.

On large animals my choice is the Ultradot. But if you plan on shooting small critters at 100-150 yards away my vote is the scope.

If you want to be like some others here and buy a cheap red dot then you will hate it. Quality costs money, don't go cheap on optics.

[Frank]

snowwolfe: "Ultradot = faster target pick up and no eye relief.
Scope = slower to pick up target and eye relief is critical."

That's true. Sometimes the action is fast, like 44man has said, and you can't beat a red dot for that environment. I love my Matchdot. If I want to switch to it on the .475 all I have to do is loosen the QR rings, take off the scope and put the Matchdot on, tighten it's QR rings. It's zero'd and ready to go. Actually my glasses are adjustable so if I raise my head a little the dot is sharp. That's easy to do and the target is clear also. But for shooting at cans at 100 yds or further, I like to get a good picture.

[44man]

How about a can at 200 yards? It is the left one, the right was shot twice at 100.

[Dale53]

44Man;

:drinks:

Dale53

[Whitworth]

How about a can at 200 yards? It is the left one, the right was shot twice at 100.

Show off.......:kidding::bigsmyl2:

[dk17hmr]

I had/have a BSA red dot (somewhere around here) I had it mounted on a bow and mid day when the sun was high I couldnt see the dot unless I was in the shade. Now that I live in Wyoming the sun is shining 90% of the day and there isnt anything you could call shade.

Is the Ultra Dot visiable mid day in the sunshine?

Is the UD Match any better or worse than the other models? I was thinking a small dot would be better for me than a larger one.

Thanks for the help guys.....seems whenever I ask about something I get honest opinions and end up spending money.

[44man]

I had/have a BSA red dot (somewhere around here) I had it mounted on a bow and mid day when the sun was high I couldnt see the dot unless I was in the shade. Now that I live in Wyoming the sun is shining 90% of the day and there isnt anything you could call shade.

Is the Ultra Dot visiable mid day in the sunshine?

Is the UD Match any better or worse than the other models? I was thinking a small dot would be better for me than a larger one.

Thanks for the help guys.....seems whenever I ask about something I get honest opinions and end up spending money.
Just turn the UD up higher, it can be seen.
There is one with a choice between red and green. Green is easy to see. I really wish all were green but it costs more for the diodes.

[Frank]

Correct, dk17hmr. The small dot on the Matchdot is hard to see in daylight. Sunlight reflects on everything. It's unbelievable sometimes how you can't find that pink little dot even on the highest settings if you use white target paper with a black square. On a sunny afternoon everything is bright relative to the dot. You'll have it turned up all the way always, or just adjust it to the larger dots. That brings up an interesting point. If you want speed, don't use the 2 moa dot in the daytime.

[Whitworth]

I had/have a BSA red dot (somewhere around here) I had it mounted on a bow and mid day when the sun was high I couldnt see the dot unless I was in the shade. Now that I live in Wyoming the sun is shining 90% of the day and there isnt anything you could call shade.

Is the Ultra Dot visiable mid day in the sunshine?

Is the UD Match any better or worse than the other models? I was thinking a small dot would be better for me than a larger one.

Thanks for the help guys.....seems whenever I ask about something I get honest opinions and end up spending money.


Absolutely you can see it in the bright daylight. Just crank up the brightness.

[white eagle]

I can not see not being able to see the dot as a problem with the UD

[Frank]

Whitworth: "Absolutely you can see it in the bright daylight. Just crank up the brightness. "

I did with a new battery. Maybe there's something wrong and I need to send it back.

[Whitworth]

Whitworth: "Absolutely you can see it in the bright daylight. Just crank up the brightness. "

I did with a new battery. Maybe there's something wrong and I need to send it back.

Sounds to me like there definitely is something wrong with the unit. I would personally send it back.

[Frank]

No, there's nothing wrong. The 2 min dot just blends in with the colors formed by daytime sun. I'm talking about 90% no-shade conditions. I have two matchdots and they are the same. That's why you don't see 1 min dots, or we have small dots with patterns with the open sight Pan V. On that they do turn up the power, higher than the tube sight. Otherwise, the sunlight will wash out the red dot. On either Matchdot, with the 2 min setting, they are always on 11 or 10, for daytime use and they work great, within the limitation I mentioned. Put up a 2' X 2' box and cover it with targets copied from a copy machine and you will be amazed how that pink little dot can be difficult to find if your setting is on 10. 11 is the minimum. Now stick way out in front of you shooting Creedmore and it will be worse. Where the scope fails in low light, the red dot fails in daylight. The dot "whites out" like the scope "blacks out."

[Whitworth]

Whitworth: "Absolutely you can see it in the bright daylight. Just crank up the brightness. "

I did with a new battery. Maybe there's something wrong and I need to send it back.

Which one is it? Is there something wrong in your opinion as you indicate here? Or are you convinced there is nothing wrong as indicated by your last post, and just a flaw in the design. My vision must be a whole lot better than yours as even in the bright summer sunlight, I have no trouble with my Ultradot -- none whatsoever.

Frank, do you wear corrective lenses?

[Frank]

Yes I wear corrective lenses. I said maybe. Maybe means maybe or maybe not. I gave you the choice, and you picked A. Wrong. The answer was B. :smile:

OK, I just did a night test and the red dot wins after dark. But that's only because you are using the other eye to spot your game. Correct? Looking through that tube is as dark as a blacked out scope. Of course, at night the reticle isn't visible.

[crabo]

Correct, dk17hmr. The small dot on the Matchdot is hard to see in daylight.
If you want speed, don't use the 2 moa dot in the daytime.

That's why I like the Ultradot 4. You can use a bigger dot for up close and personal, or the smaller dots for more precision. You chose what you need.

[white eagle]

the only prob I have encountered is there is reflection off the obj lense making it hard to see targets but that was at almost dark by that time I would have been packed up anna way

[98Redline]

The screw in sun shades do a good job of preventing the reflections.

I use the one that comes with it on the front lens but have been considering getting another for use on the rear lens as well.

[BOOM BOOM]

HI,
You might check out my old thread on this same subject.
I have a Burris fastfire on my 357 it is good.
Will put a ultra dot pan v on my 44 when I get rich enough to buy a mount.

44 MAN :holysheep:holysheep:holysheep WHY CAN'T i SHOOT LIKE THAT[smilie=b:

[dk17hmr]

Just an update. Bought an Ultra dot 30 directly from them. Got it quickly about 3 days. Mounted it on my MGM 45lc Contender barrel and really love it.

Thanks for the suggestions and info. I can see more Ultra Dots in my future.

[crabo]

I just bought one for my Guide Gun. I'll be doing some quick acquisition tests. My buddy has a SBL with a 2x Luepold scout scope and I will use the XS ghost ring peeps and the red dot.

I figure if I start from the ready position and use my timer, I should get a fairly accurate test.

[Frank]

I've got the Leupold 2.5 X 8 on the Guide Gun. The Ultradot 30 is on the shotgun. [smilie=l:

[Whitworth]

Just an update. Bought an Ultra dot 30 directly from them. Got it quickly about 3 days. Mounted it on my MGM 45lc Contender barrel and really love it.

Thanks for the suggestions and info. I can see more Ultra Dots in my future.

Glad to hear you are happy with it!

[kelbro]

Can't believe nobody has mentioned using an Eotech 511/512. I have one on my 44 mag Super Bishawk. Works great during mid-day sun. 65 MOA circle. 1 MOA dot. Batteries last a reasonable amount of time. No parallax. Unlimited eye relief. Don't need any tools to remove it.

I do use the Leupold 4x FXII for 100yd load development.

[BOOM BOOM]

Hi,
What about a holo sight?

[Frank]

OK for the Ninja warriors but they come apart on a man's gun.

[kelbro]

OK for the Ninja warriors but they come apart on a man's gun.

Eotech? I don't think so. Mine has over 1000 full house loads on it and I see them on 50 BMGs all the time.

[BOOM BOOM]

Hi,
****!!!
I keep trying but I still can't shoot like that 44 man!!!!!!

[Shooter6br]

have one on a Ruger Single Six 22rf/22mag Also on a Daisy 747 Much fun

[crabo]

I just put mine on my guide gun last night.

[ole 5 hole group]

Eotech? I don't think so. Mine has over 1000 full house loads on it and I see them on 50 BMGs all the time.

You got that right, besides, they'll replace it under warranty if it comes apart while shooting, which isn't likely to happen. A 500 Smith with full house loads sure can't bother it but it is heavier than most reflex sights and bigger to boot not to mention the steep price tag.

[Frank]

ole 5-hole group:
You got that right, besides, they'll replace it under warranty if it comes apart while shooting, which isn't likely to happen. A 500 Smith with full house loads sure can't bother it but it is heavier than most reflex sights and bigger to boot not to mention the steep price tag.

Warranty is 2 yrs. They are $418 in black, $430 camo. Weight 11.5 oz.

http://swfa.com/EOTech-512-Tactical-Holosight-Rev-F-P12952.aspx

[Shooter6br]

Red dot on 747 Daisy

[kelbro]

ole 5-hole group:

Warranty is 2 yrs. They are $418 in black, $430 camo. Weight 11.5 oz.

http://swfa.com/EOTech-512-Tactical-Holosight-Rev-F-P12952.aspx

Either they have rev'd the 511 to a 2-AA battery model or SWFA is mixed up. Mine is 8.8 oz. and Eotech's 2 yr warranty is like RCBS', they go above and beyond the written warranty.

[ole 5 hole group]

Myself, I've got the 552.A65 model, which operates on two AA batteries and will run around that $500 figure.

I think Kelbro is right, as when I called about using it on the 500 Smith, the factory rep just advised the Eotech will handle the 500 with no problems and if by chance something went wrong while shooting it - just send it in and they would repair or replace it without charge as defective and to not to worry about any "warranty". Seems as if Eotech & Leupold will stand behind their products used in the field.

[kelbro]

Myself, I've got the 552.A65 model, which operates on two AA batteries and will run around that $500 figure.

I think Kelbro is right, as when I called about using it on the 500 Smith, the factory rep just advised the Eotech will handle the 500 with no problems and if by chance something went wrong while shooting it - just send it in and they would repair or replace it without charge as defective and to not to worry about any "warranty". Seems as if Eotech & Leupold will stand behind their products used in the field.

I have a 552 on one of my 'coyote guns', A lefty Stag M4gery. If my old tired eyes can see him and put the dot on ol' Wiley, he's a goner 9 times out of 10. The 552 was around $500 but the 'N' battery 511 was closer to $400.

I told my wife that I bought them with the money that I had saved by casting and reloading. :) :)

[Whitworth]

ole 5-hole group:

Warranty is 2 yrs. They are $418 in black, $430 camo. Weight 11.5 oz.

http://swfa.com/EOTech-512-Tactical-Holosight-Rev-F-P12952.aspx

Wow, I thought they would be lighter. My Ultradot 30 weighs in just a hair over 4-oz and that is one of the reasons they can stand up to punishing recoil. Just a bit surprised by the weight.

[HeavyMetal]

I've been following this thread for awhile and thought I would post results from my Thanksgiving trip.

Bought a 45-70 barrel for my Contender from a site member in October, Super 14 with the muzzle brake. No provision for iron sites.

Played with a couple ideas and realized weight of scope and mount would play a big part in keeping it on the barrel and from comiing apart.

So just for grins I decided I'd try something a little off the wall. I had several Weaver bases and a Barska red dot reflex sight mounted on a Ruger 22 auto.

Figured I would combine the two just to see how long the Barska would last, they claim it's "shock proof" and do not have a caliber warning on the box or instructions.

I cut the weaver base so it was the same length as the red dot and then turned it around so I would have a bolt slot where I needed it to be, cleaned the barrel with alcohol and used Locktite 269 to hold it and the screws in place.

Loaded 40 rounds with Lymans 457122 HP mold pan lubed as cast with Carnuba Red, boolits weighed 340 grains as cast.

Powder charge was 36.5 grains Data / ACCURATE 2200 and Federal standard rifle primers in remington cases.

The powder charge was about a grain under the start load listed for a 375 grain lead boolit in Data load info. I went this route as I used the basic start load for 2200 in my 30-30 and was surprised by the velocity and "pressure" reading and thought it a little hot for a start load. So I reduced the 45-70 load data accordingly, it wasn't needed but better safe than sorry.

At the range in Minden NV. temp was a "warm" 40 degrees with the sun shineing and no wind at all.

Load performed pretty darn nice all things considered. I got on paper at 50 yards with one shot and the little Barska dialed in with 4 more shots.

This load was hotter than 30-30 or 44 mag loads in the Contender but I soon realized I had room to play with power wise. I did not lug the chrony with me so I have no idea what I was moving these at but based on recoil, the amount of flash from the brake and the amount of dirt I was removing from the target berm (big trench's by the way) I guesstimate I was in the 1300 to 1400 FPS range maybe a little more.

My BIL and I fired all 40 rounds and had a blast with this thing!

Completely drowned out the guy two stations down shooting a 300 win mag with a brake on, he thought it was awesome and came down and shot the bull with us at a line break.

As for the cheap little Barska? 40 round on the 45-70 Contender still in one piece and still sighted in! I didn't think I get 4 rounds out of it!

I'll post as I shoot it more.