Confused About 6.5 Grendel Dies

[FLDad]

Been reloading for a year or two (mostly pistol and .223) and I've decided to start reloading for my AA 6.5 Grendel. Now I'm worried about which die set to buy because opinions about Lee vs. Hornady vs. Redding vs. [I]whoever[I] are all over the map. I want to load .264 cast bullets as well as 120-123 grain HP. Does anybody here reload Grendel? The brass is too expensive to waste!

[GLShooter]

Been reloading for a year or two (mostly pistol and .223) and I've decided to start reloading for my AA 6.5 Grendel. Now I'm worried about which die set to buy because opinions about Lee vs. Hornady vs. Redding vs. [I]whoever[I] are all over the map. I want to load .264 cast bullets as well as 120-123 grain HP. Does anybody here reload Grendel? The brass is too expensive to waste!

I'm not loading Grendel's but I have a bit of everything in the die brands. I used RCBS starting in 1975 for years then swapped over to Hornady about 1983 or so. I bought my first Redding dies in 2005 and have not looked back since.

I have been loading 20 Tactical and 204 Ruger with the Reddings and am sold on their F/L sizer Type S dies that let me use the bushing set up. The brass is worked less and I have the option of just bumping shoulders and body sizing if I so choose. (Don't ask why I had to do it but lets just say my 20 Tactical AR ran a lot better when I moved those shoulders back! LOL)

I also picked up a 223 Reeding F?L Type S that I am loading 223 and 6X45 with. It makes it very nice when using different brass for adjusting neck tension.

I have only used Lee dies for a 32 Special lever gun that a friend has and he had the dies. They are serviceable but the finish on the Hornady or the Redding is far superior IMHO.

Greg

[FLDad]

Thanks. Full-length sizing is important because I'm reloading for an AR-15 platform. The Lee and Hornady dies are so much less expensive though. Is it simply a "you get what you pay for" proposition? I'm not resizing from 220 Russian or 7.62x39, just reloading once-fired Lapua brass, so I guess it just needs to work without crushing the shoulder, right?

[bearcove]

Lee dies work fine. after a while you'll know if finish is important. All standard die sets, full length size.

[GLShooter]

Thanks. Full-length sizing is important because I'm reloading for an AR-15 platform. The Lee and Hornady dies are so much less expensive though. Is it simply a "you get what you pay for" proposition? I'm not resizing from 220 Russian or 7.62x39, just reloading once-fired Lapua brass, so I guess it just needs to work without crushing the shoulder, right?

The Redding standard dies don't cost that much more than the Hornady standard dies. The Hornady has a floating seating chamber that is gravity controlled while the Redding does not. The Redding uses a stem ala RCBS/Lee. The Redding and Hornady basic sizer are the same design. Where Redding steps up is with the available F/L bushing sizer dies. They also make a neck size only set up for some cases but wit the AR platform a FL is in order.

You can upgrade the Hornady Seater die with a Micrometer top that is a very nice touch if you are loading different bullet types. It allows you to dial in and out quickly and more accurately than using the standard stem set up.

The Redding Micrometer (what they call COMPETITION) Seater is a work of art with the floating seater that is spring loaded that seems to keep the bullet a bit more concentric during the seating process as opposed to the Hornady that uses a gravity only set up, as mentioned earlier. It can, of course, be turned in and out for bullet swaps.

I believe that both brands will give you good service. If you choose to go with the non-micrometer seating assembly I would gravitate to the Hornady set up if only because I like their seater die (which is caliber specific not cartridge specific BTW so a 6 MM will seat all 6 MM and a 223/224 will seat all 223 cartridge types)

The amount of $$'s difference in the basic dies is not enough to worry about so let your fancy be your guide.

Greg

[FLDad]

Thanks, guys. One more question along these lines: I grabbed a box of Nosler BTs and noticed they don't have a cannelure. The Lee dies come with their factory crimp die, which I have found useful for auto pistols. For a semi-auto rifle, do you recommend a taper crimp? Light crimp? No crimp? If the FCD is needed, I might start with the Lee die set anyway just to get the crimp die.

[Doc Highwall]

About the only dies that I buy now days are the Redding full length S bushing dies.

[GLShooter]

Thanks, guys. One more question along these lines: I grabbed a box of Nosler BTs and noticed they don't have a cannelure. The Lee dies come with their factory crimp die, which I have found useful for auto pistols. For a semi-auto rifle, do you recommend a taper crimp? Light crimp? No crimp? If the FCD is needed, I might start with the Lee die set anyway just to get the crimp die.

I've only use a light roll crimp on the case if it the bullet has a cannelure. I have never used a rifle taper crimp.

On all my AR's I use straight neck tension either as it comes with the regular dies or with the bushing die that lets you put more squeeze on the neck prior to seating.

I have been using a new tool set up using a Lee FCD and a torque tool that seems to show promise on crimping control. It has changed group size by as much as 60% through is use using the same charge weight and only altering crimp pressure in a repeatable application.

I have not tried this method on an AR yet but I can see where it might make a difference. I'll have a another test run finished over the next two weeks or so with it and can speak with some authority at that time.

At this point I would stick with the regular Hornady set up and not go with the Lee FCD. This is just based on the five different AR cartridges I load for and the dozen rifles I'm shooting

Greg

[Walt]

Thanks, guys. One more question along these lines: I grabbed a box of Nosler BTs and noticed they don't have a cannelure. The Lee dies come with their factory crimp die, which I have found useful for auto pistols. For a semi-auto rifle, do you recommend a taper crimp? Light crimp? No crimp? If the FCD is needed, I might start with the Lee die set anyway just to get the crimp die.

If standard dies are doing what they are supposed to do you shouldn't need to crimp the BTs. If your expander is too large or you aren't getting the neck sized down properly before expanding I don't believe any kind of crimp will do you much good. This is a good example for the Redding bushing dies....they can be set up for a light pull for use in a bolt gun/target rifle or sized for a heavy pull for use in your AR. I really like Redding dies.

[FLDad]

Sounds like I need to rely on neck tension to keep bullets from seating deeper under recoil. Those long 6.5s should give me plenty of bearing surface, too. Guess I'll try the bushing dies and set them up for a heavier pull. For the cast .264s, I guess I'll know to back off if I start to shave lead.

Thanks, gents. You've all been a lot of help -- now I can get to work on finding the loads my favorite rifle likes best!

[Moonie]

For loading cast I would recommend the Lyman M-die to open up the neck to accept the cast boolit. Without it you are going to have lead shaving.

[FLDad]

I already have a Lee Universal Expanding Die and I was thinking about trying it first since it only affects the first 1/16" of case neck. Just enough flare to get rid of lead shaving. But it sounds like I need to be measuring the neck inside diameter first to get it .001" under cast bullet diameter, then I can deal with the shaving issue if necessary.

If I'm not careful, you folks will have me doing this the right way and I'll be out of excuses!

[Moonie]

FLDad, don't tell anyone, I use the Lee myself.

[madsenshooter]

I'm sitting here loading some boolits in 6x45, and I have to say that I don't think much of Hornady's floating seating stem. Seems to be a catchy little thing, a gimick, so to speak. All it does as far as I'm concerned is make it easy to load ammo with a lot of runout. And it doesn't discriminate, it can load either lead or jacketed bullets with about the same amount of runout. Give me something that lends some support to the case before it stuffs the bullet in there.

[BD]

I use a variety of dies, but if I had it to do over and $$ was no object, they'd all be Redding type S.
I also use the Lee FCD on all of my AR ammo. Originally I didn't think it was necessary for the .223 loading the 77 grainers, but I'm running moly bullets in that gun and after a loading or two I would get small amounts of bullet jump on chambering which opened up the groups a bit. A light application of the FCD die cured that. IMO a modified FCD die for a body crimp is really helpful for the .450 Bushmaster, and absolutely necessary if you're using cast boolits to keep them from jumping into the lands on chambering.

I agree on the Hornady seating die with the floating chamber. Nice idea, poorly executed. I've sworn a blue streak at the seater for the .450B on a number of occasions when the foolish little wire clip that holds in the floating stem either jammed it up or broke off and let it drop out the bottom.

BD

[GLShooter]

I've generally felt the Hornady floating seater worked better for me for concentricy on the ammo I've loaded over RCBS dies.

That being said I think the Redding that is spring loaded is a much better way to skin the cat.

Greg

[FLDad]

Wow, the Redding S die set is only $209.99 at Midway! Guess I'll start with the Hornady set, buy the Lee set just for the crimp die, and add the Redding Competition seater to get the accuracy I want. Plus the Lyman M die for cast loads. I should recover the investment after the first few thousand rounds...

It is a little frustrating.

[felix]

For that price I would definitely go for custom dies. ... felix

[FLDad]

Felix, that was the first good laugh I've had all day. Thanks!

[felix]

Glad I helped, Dad! ... felix

[spqrzilla]

Note also that there is a new cartridge that is interchangeable with the 6.5 Grendel but avoids the use of the trademarked name - .264 LBC AR

http://www.lesbaer.com/264LBCAR.html

And there are dies for it.

[BD]

Holy sticker shock Batman!

[FLDad]

Same exact cartridge -- LB just stopped using the Grendel name. Model One sells a Shaw barrel and calls it the 6.5 Sporter, but AA sells the same barrel as Grendel. CSS sells one with a slightly tighter neck dimension designed for benchrest shooting. It's all Grendel, but some companies want to avoid licensing. LB altered the chamber very slightly, but I think it's as shame to see a company with their reputation presenting the ".264 LBC AR" as their creation. And I'll bet those Hornady dies are identical to their Grendel dies.

[fireball168]

LB altered the chamber very slightly, but I think it's as shame to see a company with their reputation presenting the ".264 LBC AR" as their creation.

That's life in the firearms trade, unfortunately.

The 6.5 Grendel Forster dies have been the easiest on the brass for me.

With that said, I'm just using them for resizing the new brass prior to forming to 358 Gremlin and forming folks fired Grendel brass into Gremlin for them.

[BD]

I just looked into the 6.5 Grendal and clone availability a bit. IMHO this situation looks like something that AA brought on themselves with licensing fees. If you set a reasonable licensing fee, everyone pays it, and will continue paying it for a long time. If you set a fee that the market finds excessive, very few will pay it, and the rest will try and find a way around it.

BD

[FLDad]

As I understand it, the fees are low but the terms are otherwise unpopular, probably because they require a lot of insurance coverage and prohibit the use of AK bolts, which don't headspace the same way. So I understand the arguments both ways. I went with AA because I'm reasonably sure their stuff meets their specs. And I'll have fun finding the dies that work best for me, too.

Hmmm... now Fireball has me thinking about that 358 Gremlin, maybe with a can on the barrel... do I really need another rifle??

[GabbyM]

Wow, the Redding S die set is only $209.99 at Midway! Guess I'll start with the Hornady set, buy the Lee set just for the crimp die, and add the Redding Competition seater to get the accuracy I want. Plus the Lyman M die for cast loads. I should recover the investment after the first few thousand rounds...

It is a little frustrating.

S die set is $189 at Midsouth. Bushing not included. Still a pile of money. https://www.midsouthshooterssupply.com/item.asp?sku=0007636478

I’ve a couple of Forster BR seaters with the floating chamber to hold the case aligned. like them. Graf & Son has the two die FL set for $67 http://www.grafs.com/retail/catalog/category/categoryId/1970

They also have the Redding D series for $73.