success.....

[NSP64]

After honing out the cylinder ends(.432), fire lapping the barrel(.4315), buying a new mold (Lyman Devestator lymented and beagled .432). I went to the range with some loads of H110. Started at 19.0 and increased to 20.0 by 0.2 grains incraments.
SBH, 10" barrel, 1.5-4.5x scope. From the bench.1250 fps mv. WDWW sized .433, Lyman GC, speed green lube. Federal cases, win LP primers.
54* wind 3 mph NNE swirling 29.74 steady
http://i1030.photobucket.com/albums/y367/biggun441/IMAG0294.jpg
50 yards 1"

[44man]

After honing out the cylinder ends, fire lapping the barrel, buying a new mold (Lyman Devestator). I went to the range with some loads of H110. Started at 19.0 and increased to 20.0 by 0.2 grains incraments.
SBH, 10" barrel, 1.5-4.5x scope. From the bench.1250 fps mv
http://i1030.photobucket.com/albums/y367/biggun441/IMAG0294.jpg
How far?
A SBH .44 needs nothing done to the throats.
How much does the boolit weigh?
The SBH prefers 296 and those loads seem light.
.2 grain means nothing, go 1/2 gr changes.
None of the holes look round in the paper.
The Fed 150 standard primer will cut group size by 2/3's.
This is what a SBH can do at 200 yards with a 330 gr boolit at a little over 1300 fps.

[NSP64]

Been working with this gun since April 2010 wouldn't shoot cast for poo.
Went back looked at "a beginner's guide to revolver accuracy " sticky.
The throats were .430
Contriction where barrel screwed in .429
Crown of barrel measured .431
For hunting I think this is wonderful.
Might work up some loads from 20.0 up to ?
The lighter loads were 6" and as the charges increased the gruops started shrinking.

[101VooDoo]

Nice results -

Jim

[Doc Highwall]

44man, what do you use for a lube?

[NSP64]

None of the holes look round in the paper.
.

The paper was not tight against the backer and the wind was swirling moving the paper and I photoed it with my phone while it was fluttering. Speed green lube 275gr with GC

[44man]

I don't mean to sound bad, but the SBH is a great gun capable of more then you think. Not as good as a SRH or BFR but it can do 3/4" average at 50 yards but even 1" is good. The SBH Hunter can do better, down to 1/2".
I only question your loading techniques, not the gun.
Is the boolit the right size and hard enough? I really need the weight of it. I use 21.5 gr of 296 with a 310, 320 gr boolit and 21 with a 330 gr. For a 265 gr I use 22 gr.
I have the same gun and will never part with it. It shoots like a laser.
Done right it is a cast boolit shooter supreme! Not many revolvers will not shoot cast and if they wont, there is something wrong. 99% of the time it is loading, very few bad guns.
But I still need all the info I asked for.

[44man]

44man, what do you use for a lube?
I use Felix lube and size----well not really size, just remove excess lube with a .432" Lee die. I just make sure any GC boolits have the checks seated tight. I either run boolits through the die upside down or just crimp the checks in my RCBS lube sizer first.
I like checks a very tight fit before I do anything else.
I get .430" boolits to shoot great too.

[44man]

The paper was not tight against the backer and the wind was swirling moving the paper and I photoed it with my phone while it was fluttering. Speed green lube 275gr with GC
Speed green should be great. But up the load to match twist rate. I would say between 21.5 to 22 gr of powder but use a standard primer, not a mag. The WW primer might have too much pressure too.
Now H110 has always seemed to need 1/2 gr more then 296 but I never got the accuracy from it that I do with 296 except from the standard RH.
Do not be afraid to work up more. Those powders do not spike all at once.
296 and the SBH, SRH and S&W are like first love. H110 only worked for us in the standard RH.
Same powders but there IS a difference in burn rate. Don't let anyone tell you it is only lot to lot difference for each powder.
Here are a few 100 yard groups. If you don't love the 10" SBH, I don't know what to say! ;)

[leftiye]

NSP, Still a great sucess! I'm using almost that same boolit /load. Try some 4227 and see if it works. It is a good accurate pwder and performs right at the top with Lil' Gun, and H110 velocity wise with that boolit (mine weighs 278 fully dressed). I'm using 20 to 21 grains.

[44man]

NSP, Still a great sucess! I'm using almost that same boolit /load. Try some 4227 and see if it works. It is a good accurate pwder and performs right at the top with Lil' Gun, and H110 velocity wise with that boolit (mine weighs 278 fully dressed). I'm using 20 to 21 grains.
The 4227's will give you big headaches in the .44 if the gun gets a little hot. I learned my lesson big time at IHMSA shoots with the stuff.
It was accurate but velocity would climb with every shot and primers would start to really flatten. The gun had to be kept cold to get good groups. I would start the rams with a normal setting and each shot after hit lower until I was 16 clicks over normal for the last ram and would hit the dirt 50 yards short. I kept looking at my barrel to see if it was bending! :bigsmyl2:
Lil'Gun burns way too hot and can erode the barrel. This stuff has no deterrent on it.
296 is the best.

[Bullshop]

44man
I do not use my hand guns at the same level you do but I do use powder and want to keep my understanding of then as up to date as possible.
That brings up my questions about the 4227's you mention. Which 4227 were you using, IMR or Hodgdons? If Hodgdons about what was the date you were using it?
I ask because I wonder if you have tried the most recent formulation of Hodgdons 4227 since they have included it in thier extreme line of powders.
If your not familiar with thier extreme line it is a line of powders they started that are supposed to be minimally effected by extreme temperature changes.
When the first factory ammo became available for the 500 S&W loaded by Corbon I broke some down to duplicate it and found what appeared to be H 4227 Extreme. Using that powder I was able to duplicate the performance of thier ammo after getting a mold to copy thier boolit.
I use a lot of the 4227 Extreme and like it along with some other powders in the extreme line such as Varget.
I have never gone to the races with it, so to speak and likely never will because of where I live so have never pushed to the level you have to see if a quirk of powder personality might show itself.

[geargnasher]

NP, what did you do about the .002" restriction at the forcing cone?

I found with a 240-grain plain-based Keith, 16:1, .4313" sized/lubed to .4315" with Felix lube(I know, I know, too light!) my best accuracy at 100 yards was with 19.5 grains of Hercules 2400 (4-5" round groups all day long), beyond that I got leading but accuracy was still almost as good with zero pressure signs in my FIL's model 29 10.5". A 265 grain RFN checked and fired in the same gun worked up to 22 grains 296 got pretty warm for the thin cylinders but the groups got smaller the faster I went, down to 3" at 100, probably better but that's absolutely at the limit of my trigger control and vision w/4MOA Ultradot. I'm amazed at what can be done with revolvers at long range, even more amazed to do it myself. Do like I did and take 44man's advice on the Federal primers, they will light 296 just fine if there is enough powder volume in the case and I'll say it certainly does make an accuracy difference compared to WLP primers, although 2/3 better is not what my particular results were. I never tried any others with the .44 Mag.

Gear

[44man]

44man
I do not use my hand guns at the same level you do but I do use powder and want to keep my understanding of then as up to date as possible.
That brings up my questions about the 4227's you mention. Which 4227 were you using, IMR or Hodgdons? If Hodgdons about what was the date you were using it?
I ask because I wonder if you have tried the most recent formulation of Hodgdons 4227 since they have included it in thier extreme line of powders.
If your not familiar with thier extreme line it is a line of powders they started that are supposed to be minimally effected by extreme temperature changes.
When the first factory ammo became available for the 500 S&W loaded by Corbon I broke some down to duplicate it and found what appeared to be H 4227 Extreme. Using that powder I was able to duplicate the performance of thier ammo after getting a mold to copy thier boolit.
I use a lot of the 4227 Extreme and like it along with some other powders in the extreme line such as Varget.
I have never gone to the races with it, so to speak and likely never will because of where I live so have never pushed to the level you have to see if a quirk of powder personality might show itself.
You might have something there. I never tried the new powder.
I used both H and IMR back then and both gave me the same problems. It seemed a lot of guys were using it for IHMSA in their .44's but I heard a LOT of cussing on the line. None of them ever shot decent.
I had listened to them and went to it but it only took two shoots to see a problem. I shot the best 200 meter group ever with the stuff in practice but I did not get the gun hot.
With primers getting flatter as I shot the course, I reduced the charge to 21 gr and it had no effect. Some guys were using 25 gr with a 240 gr.
I would like to see a cold to hot gun test done with the extreme powder. (.44 mag) I don't have any.
Now I used the powder in the .357 max and it was perfect. I shot a 39 with a brand new Ruger without any sight settings. I went to the shoot just to sight in the gun. I shot some 40's with it.
Something to do with the .44?????

[NSP64]

HUMMMMMM. I was using lite charges of imr 4227 under a 130 gr jaucketed bullets in my 270 win when I had a ruptured case that blew the rifle in two. Might have been the powder. It was around the 18-20 th round fired.:groner:

Sad too, I was getting 1" groups at 100yrds @ 1900 fps off the bench.

[NSP64]

Gear, I usually shoot TC contenders and auto loaders, and never had any problems with leading. I wanted a revolter for deer hunting for quick follow up shots. 2 yrs ago bought a Ruger SRH couldn't get it to shoot for beans. Got rid of it. Got this 10" SBH this year and decided to make it work. Tried Many loads with it and always got leading that first inch, and wild groups at 50 yrds.

I was getting leading using WDWW the first inch of the barrel using all weights of bullets and any powder, Switched lubes. No fix. Checked cylinder throats were .430 sounds good right. I had slugged the barrel with a Pure RB, .429.
WDWW were dropping .431 What was wrong?????

Went to Wheelgun section and scanned "beginers guide to revolver accuracy" sticky.

Polished out the cylinder throats to .432, Ordered new devastator mold. Lymented and beagled mold to drop .433 (size .432)

Thought I had it whipped. Wrong

Still leading first inch. Spraying boolits at 50 yrds all powder and boolit combo's.

Went back to sticky. READ sticky, RE-READ sticky. Sunk into thick skull.

Pounded Pure RB into muzzle, Pulled back out .431

Pounded Pure RB through barrel .429

Hey thats not right.


Cast up some pure Pb swcs and covered with fine grinding compound. Loaded in un sized cases six at a time over 1gr of unique. Fired, cleaned, slug, repeat.

Last check .4315.

Loaded up some loads of H110 , (19-20 gr by .2 gr)all loads gave groups. As the speed picked up the group shrank from 3" down to 1". NO LEADING.

Going to increase next time 20.0-22.0 by .2 gr untill they start to open up.

[felix]

Not unusual to thread the barrel on wrong end in a typical factory setting. ... felix

[Bullshop]

Felix
That brings up a question I have. I have a new barrel blank from Douglas. It is a straight threaded blank about maybe 1.25" diameter. One end has a slightly larger diameter outside ring and that end is stamped with the bore diameter and twist rate and makers name.
Now since I have never started out with an un-contoured blank before I am not sure which end should be the chamber and which the muzzle.
I think the stamped end should become the breach end but I wish to be sure before I make any mistake, as I usually do.

[felix]

Dan, the only sure way is to slug the barrel. The choked end is the muzzle intent. That has to be verified before contouring, and rechecked after contouring. The barrel should be stress relieved before and after contouring, which should keep the internal dimensions in check, but absolutely no guarantee. Then the barrel can be threaded and chambered if within reasonable spec, otherwise it should be re-bored as a larger caliber. Of course, we are talking the best of the best here, keeping in mind as the bore size goes up there is less and less demand for meeting the same accuracy from the final gun. Who needs a quarter inch shooting 45-70? ... felix

[geargnasher]

NP, I have three Rugers and had to firelap every single one of them due to thread crush. Ruger has a "special" time-saving way of fitting barrels to frames. As best I remember from a book I read once, it works something like this: The thread cuts are clocked and sorted into three different piles, as are the frames, then they are matched into three groups and assembled. The problem is that the tolerance is anything that falls into a 120* window, so it may crush the whole 120* or it may not crush at all. I suspect a competent gunsmith could easily set back the barrel and recut the forcing cone, but it would be expensive. Of course the guns are cheap to begin with, so it's a trade-off. If you want it right out of the box, guys are raving about their BFRs.

I purchased a variety of chucking reamers for fixing my S&W and Ruger revolvers, it was a good investment.

Gear

[NSP64]

I'm taking 44man's advice . no 1 nearby has 296 or federal primers . so I'm heading to saint charles missouri for a gun show to try and find supplies .

[NSP64]

no vendors at the gun show carried federal primers . so I stopped at graffs is saint charles . they had the primers and the powder .