My 1st ingots today

[Jal5]

Took the plunge and started with some of my range lead, about a little over a 1.5 gal. bucket full but I didn't fill up the dutch oven so I would have enough room to stir. My smelting set up worked fine, plenty sturdy enough.

Here are the results, 10 muffin pan ingots. They seem to have bubbles on the bottom and some dirt still mixed in with the lead. I noticed that even after stirring off as much of the dross as I could there was still dirt mixed in to some degree. Any suggestions to deal with that next time?

How long do you cook the range lead? I didn't time it but waited till the jackets floated up with the rest of the dross. Some of those didn't empty all the way as seen when I boxed up the jackets- maybe if I save enough I can trade those for lead at the recycler.

Thanks for all the advice so far, looks like I may like this part of the hobby/addiction! I do need to devise a platform though, my back won't take that much stooping over doing it on the concrete.

Joe

[fryboy]

the bubbles throw me off ...i'm guessing because the pan was prolly newish ??? i almost think the smelt wasnt hot enough ...after it's all melted u should flux with the jackets still in it ...this should in turn help the jackets come out cleaner and emptier , once all the jackets are gone i'd flux at least once again and more if it's still pulling up dirt ( part of why i believe it wasnt quite up to temp ) once u quit getting dirt then u should pour ur ingots , if one doesnt get quite all the dirt out what is floating on top of the ladle will stay in the ladle if u pour slow and dont empty it

[imashooter2]

How long do you cook it? Until it melts.

Good job for the first smelting. You need to get that dirt out before you ingot it up though. Time spent here is well worth it in keeping your casting pot clean in the future.

To get the dirt out, let it cook a bit longer to get fully liquid and scoop out the big stuff. Then scrape the sides and bottom of the pot with your long handled spoon while using some sort of flux... wood chips, shredded newsprint, wax, whatever your preference. Then skim all the dirt that remains off to the side and scoop it out with your long handled spoon. After you flux turn the heat way down to minimize dross formation while you pour.

[Kskybroom]

Is there a coating on your muffin pan
looks like your melt needs fluxing floor dry work good for me
It takes a long time to cook range scrap. Keep stirring so the lead runs out of the fmj . You can smash plated boolits so thay melt. the cleaner the jackets are the more lead for you an more money from the recycler,,,,,

[Muddy Creek Sam]

I usually burn mine with paraffin 3 or 4 times and skim it after each time. Gets the dirt out for me. Never have had bubbles.

Sam :D

[home in oz]

You have made a good start

[Jal5]

thanks everyone.

I think the lesson here is get the heat up a little more, very windy today with cold temps and to flux which I forgot to do!
the muffin pans are those nonstick kind. flipped the muffins right out though.

Are the ingots usable the way they are?

Joe

[fryboy]

yes but u'll be wanting to heavily flux them in ur casting pot , sorry i have alot on my mind and cant recall how u plan on casting but if a bottom pour furnace alot of some drips can be slowed or eliminated by only adding good clean alloy , while there is some dross left in these u should be able to flux it out before u cast , as for the heat ...if u have some tin of somekind u can fashion a heat/wind gaurd around ur pot that would help cut down the wind on the fire as well as save a lil heat , think of a circle say 2-5-ish inches high around the bottom of the pot
when i seen the bubbles the nonstick and newness made me think that's why , i'm sure that after u have used it for a bit it'll go away , the main thing is u have ur first experience under ur belt ! ( good job amigo ! umm btw ... u do know that quitting is easier now than later dont u ? :-P ) just in case and so u dont take it wrong...that last was a friendly tease with a bit of truth to it

[imashooter2]

When Teflon burns, it gives off toxic gases. That may be what's causing your bubbles.

[Jal5]

I will be using a Lyman ladle pot for casting.
Good idea on the wind guard I think I have just the thing to make it.
As long as I can still find some WW or mine the berms around here I think I will stick with it. :bigsmyl2:
thanks.

[fryboy]

yeah it gets rather addicting fast ( and is very rewarding and alot of fun ) but i just felt that that lil disclaimer should be out there just in case no one else warned ya ;)

[alfloyd]

"and to flux which I forgot to do!"

When you do flux, don't be afraid of using too much flux. Use lots and more than once.
Sawdust or woodchips stired into the melt with a wooden stick ( paint mixing stick ) works great for me.
Leave the sawdust/woodchips in the pot till it turns black, and then stir it some more.

It is very much fun and addicting doing what you started.

alfloyd

[lwknight]

Just put those new pans on the burner and let them get red hot. After that they will not make fuglies in the ingots.

[Doby45]

Exactly right. Those ugly bubbles are from the teflon cooking.. My first pan did the exact same thing.



Just put those new pans on the burner and let them get red hot. After that they will not make fuglies in the ingots.

[sqlbullet]

The first muffins I cast also bubbled. They will diminish over time.

[44fanatic]

Bubbles...muffin pan cooking off gases, nothing to worry about.

As for getting the lead out of the jackets, once everything is up to a good temp, use a metel strainer that has a handle. Shake them up a bit and most of the lead will drop back into the pot.

[Jal5]

I did somewhat better today with getting all the lead out of the jackets. And the advice for heating the muffin pan to cook off the coating worked fine.

Still not getting enough of the dross out of the molten lead even with using sawdust for flux twice in this batch, once with the jackets in and once after I removed them. That pot is pretty rusty inside could this be the problem? The muffins look like they still have some of the **** mixed in. they weigh about 1# so I now have about 24 #s made up. Judging from the range scrap I have left probably another 12-15 muffins in that batch.

Looking back over this thread, Imashooter2 may have the answer for the dross formation after I fluxed- I had that burner up too high while ladling into the muffin pans, forming more dross? I will try it with less heat once I am at that point next time.

Joe

[imashooter2]

You do have a long handled and non slotted spoon don't you? Use your long handled spoon. Keep herding the crud to the side of the pot and shoveling it out until there isn't any more. It really is that simple.

[Jal5]

Yep long handled non-slotted spoon is what I am using. Guess i will have to be more patient and keep after it. Will turn down the heat some too at that point and see what difference that makes.

Joe

[4719dave]

flux,flux flux WELCOME to the sickness no turning back now !! NEVER be afraid to ask questions here these guys ARE GREAT and very helpful !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! ps i use bees wax to flux mine
http://i298.photobucket.com/albums/mm258/4719dave/1st%20casting/100_3325.jpg

[Tag]

I don't want to hijack the thread or still the thunder but I have bees so fluxing with bees wax would be pretty cheap for me and also being new at this I was wondering how you go about fluxing with wax

[fryboy]

I don't want to hijack the thread or still the thunder but I have bees so fluxing with bees wax would be pretty cheap for me and also being new at this I was wondering how you go about fluxing with wax

hi guy , fluxing with wax is easy , i'd recommend a pair of welders gloves and a long handled implement tho , best way is to get the melt hot then stir , then add a chunk of wax , size depends upon how big of melt u have , once it starts to melt most prefer to light it on fire as it cuts down the smoke ( the long handled stirrer and gloves really help here ! ) then stir , it helps to introduce some air rom time to time as well as scrape the bottom and sides , once the wax burns out skim the crud off the top and repeat if needed , beeswax does work great but before i use beeswax i'll use the slum gum i scrape off the bottom when i filter it , beeswax is more important for most uf us for lube and we find cheaper things for flux ( like sawdust and old candle stubs etc ) i also use my failed lube experiments as flux and those usually work great !

[rattletrap1970]

Those bubbles are definitely from the Teflon. You can get uncoated plain old aluminum muffin tins at the Goodwill store (where I got mine), flea markets, tag sales, etc. I paid $1 per muffin tin.

[Jal5]

I will try to flux using some candle wax next batch.
The bubbles have diminished almost completely with the second batch I did, definitely was the teflon bubbling off. No problem.

Joe

[fredj338]

thanks everyone.

I think the lesson here is get the heat up a little more, very windy today with cold temps and to flux which I forgot to do!
the muffin pans are those nonstick kind. flipped the muffins right out though.

Are the ingots usable the way they are?

Joe
ThAt is why there is so much dirt in your ingots & possibly the large air pockets or bubbles. BEFORE you skim off the clips, flux well, then skim, then flux again & then pour ingots. Mine come out smooth & clean whether range alloy or ww.

[RKJ]

To get the smelting setup off the ground, I use a 3x3 (5/8") sheet of plywood on top of a couple of sawhorses for my smelting. The sawhorses fold up easily and the plywood leans against them for a pretty small footprint to store.

[Jal5]

On the second melting I used two concrete blocks to support a flat flagstone piece of concrete which provided a good base for the burner stand at just the right height so I wasn't bending too much. Next to it I set up my yard tractor and wagon attached with a good piece of table top to cover the wagon. That provided a nice workbench for all the tools as well as a stable table for the ingot molds/muffin pans. Worked better than I thought, best part was it was all from pieces lying around in my garage.

Joe