Failure!

[mdi]

Deep down I know I'll prolly never discover a lube as good as what is already out there but I still like to try! I found a furniture polish, semi-liquid about the same consistancy as gel toothpaste, made of beeswax and orange oil (it's out in the shop now so I don't have the name handy). Hmmm, beeswax always gets my attention. I mixed some with alox to get the same consistancy as 45-45-10 and tumble lubed about 50 boolits yesterday afternoon. Looked good, nice golden/tan color and smelled good. Went out this morning to find the "lube" had not dried over 14 hours! Still wet as when I set them out. I had let the mix set out for a couple hours to allow some of the solvents to evaporate, but no success. Close but no cigar...

[fryboy]

lolz i ummm simmered all the mineral oil out of it and tried it , it worked better that way ( has to be a thin thin coat to dry ) is this it ?

[geargnasher]

You mixed a product that was the consistency of toothpaste with LLA and got something the consistency of 45/45/10???? I don't think so. I would try mixing LLA about 50/50 with this polish and diluting it with mineral spirits until it was about the consistency of 10W30 engine oil at room temperature. Then, warm the mix by putting a bottle of it in a cup of warm water and apply it to the boolits that way. Much better chance of it actually drying.

One thing to always consider when making a boolit lube, and this is almost always overlooked, is what happens to the barrel after your shooting session. With orange oil, you might find blueing damage at the muzzle crown or anywhere lube film accumulates, and the bore might rust if not cleaned right away. I try to only use lubes that do not require cleaning the bore, since cleaning it all out removes the "season" from the metal. Some of my guns haven't had the bores cleaned all year!

Gear

[onesonek]

Now I admit I new to casting and lubes, I have a tendencey to think,,,,while most all waxes have some lubricating properties, are they not more in our case, carriers of other more refined lubricants????
I suspect the beeswax emulsion in the citrus oil is more of a sealer with the oil being more of conditioner cleaner.
With liquid furniture, most have polymers and waxes as well I suppose, but most are advertised as cleaners and conditioners that have no build up. They literally strip themselves with each use and leave little residue. As where something like JPW, actually leaves behind a very thin layer of wax that will build up. You take a piece of wood and give is several coats of Liquid Furniture Polish with drying time between each, you see little difference from the first to last. With paste wax, you can see the depth after several coats.
Now I also suspect because it dries, JPW and or similar products,,while having some lubricating properties,,, one of their main assets is for the chemical dryers in it to limit the stickiness or tack of Alox. The furniture conditioner/ polish just don't have those dryer's from what I have seen,,,,wipe on wipe off. Where as wax is rub on, dry, buff off.
I might be wrong as for JPW's function as far as boolit lube, but know the differences when it comes to conditioners, cleaners, sealers, and waxes for wood and leather. There are difference's without a doubt. And when it come's to ,,,do all's,,, there really ain't no such thing, as those products that have specific function's do a much better job of the end result desired. And thats likely why nobody has really come up with single boolit lube that functions as we want at all speeds, pressure and temperature, (likely other factors I didnt mention as well).

[a.squibload]

Dangit, you guys, stop making me think so much!
I never paid much attention to boolit lube before.

I guess I always clean the bore 'cause you're supposed to, never thought about the possibility
that the lube I just sent down the bore can protect it.
If there's no buildup of lead or powder, why clean, I could be removing whatever good stuff is left (the lube).
I read here somewhere the concept that one shot could provide some lube for the next,
don't know where I thought the lube was gonna go, could be some still in there.

Has anyone tried bearing grease or some mixture thereof? Would be great for steel.
I bought some of that BAC red stuff, figured I was all set, now I need to read some more!

[fryboy]

Dangit, you guys, stop making me think so much!
I never paid much attention to boolit lube before.


Has anyone tried bearing grease or some mixture thereof? Would be great for steel.
I bought some of that BAC red stuff, figured I was all set, now I need to read some more!

ummm lolz on the first part :-P
on the second part simply put - yes . alot of the recipes u read have lithum grease in it ie; bearing grease ( not to be confused with white lithum ummm grease ) 50 % lith and 50% beeswax is a known , proven and easy lube that works well enough

[onesonek]

Dangit, you guys, stop making me think so much!
I never paid much attention to boolit lube before.

I guess I always clean the bore 'cause you're supposed to, never thought about the possibility
that the lube I just sent down the bore can protect it.
If there's no buildup of lead or powder, why clean, I could be removing whatever good stuff is left (the lube).
I read here somewhere the concept that one shot could provide some lube for the next,
don't know where I thought the lube was gonna go, could be some still in there.

Has anyone tried bearing grease or some mixture thereof? Would be great for steel.
I bought some of that BAC red stuff, figured I was all set, now I need to read some more!

I never clean my bores, until accuracy falls off. The only exceptions,,,, I will run a dry patch or 2 down if hunting in bad weather, or have large swings in temp, mostly from cold to warm. But that is mostly to get the moisture out, not a full scrub of the bore. Or if I have reason to think that particular firearm may not get shot for a long period,,,,hasnt happened in 35+ yrs for that however.

[runfiverun]

the bac is a good lube.
stearates are good lubes too. one type [sodium stearate] has a hardening affect on b-wax and the other lithium stearate [white grease] has a softening effect. [i suspect the grease carrier might be the softener]
jpw is parrafin, solvents ,and carnuba wax.
if you add it to b-wax,and let it dry, it gets very hard also. mainly because the solvents dry out leaving the parrafin and carnuba.

[mdi]

Wow, I never figgered a response like this! Yep Fryboy that be the one. I mixed up some 45-45-10 a few weeks ago and the stuff I mixed up the otherday is about the SAME consistancy! I used a tablespoon full of each at first to get it mixed then added a smidge of Mineral Spirits. I dropped three bullets in a container to act as agitators and mixed the components up quite well. Mr. Gearr, been lurking around my shed? Kinda hard (questionable) to make observations like that from afar!:kidding:

[geargnasher]

MDI, you're right, I don't lurk around your shed, but you mix a product the consistency of "toothpaste" with (I'm assuming) liquid Alox, don't mention adding any solvents, tumble lube your boolits with it and wonder why it doesn't dry. In your post #9 the third sentence lacks a specific subject, and I can't tell whether you meant 45/45/10 or the furniture polish/Alox concoction. Did you add mineral spirits to this last mix to thin it? If you did, and made a mix that coats very thinly on the boolits, and it still won't dry, I'd say your furniture polish isn't going to work very well in a tumble lube application unless used very sparingly. One of the reasons JPW works so well is that paraffin waxes will "dry" somewhat, and Carnauba wax will too.

Gear

[mdi]

Hmmm, seems like I mentioned MINERAL SPIRITS in the 4th sentenance. 3rd sentence is pretty self explainatory "I mixed up some 45-45-10 a few weeks ago and the stuff I mixed up the otherday is about the SAME consistancy!", but I'm not an english professor so I can't say what part of speech the phrase it. If you can reread the original post, you'll see "gel toothpaste"

Sometimes it's hard to stay civil when someone is so very critical of every word in a sentence and tries to question my results from hundreds of miles away. Nothing in my original post needed correcting by anyone, not even you geargnasher. There was no portion of that post that would harm anyone, make up any dangerous concoction, or in any way cause anyone any inconvenience. So, act like an adult and get off my a$$...

I believe this forum is for discussing gun reloading and related subjects, not for petty critisizimsns of inconsequencial experiments, but I, unlike some old timers around here, can be wrong.

Michael Isaac

[fryboy]

ummmm i cant say for sure but we all interpret things a wee bit differently , i dont believe that any of us are trying to "get " on another's case ...i was taught long ago some silly little saying that in essence took quite a bit for me to understand or get the scope of , allow me to share if i may
" sometimes it's not the reception of the deception but the deception of the reception " from my point of view i do believe the last half of that applies

soz for getting off topic so back to topic

i didnt try it as a tumble lube , i did try it as a "stick " lube with mixed results , i started a write up that i havent finished yet ( life happens and i'm not quite done with all the firing test - so far they have been fair )
i looked at it much as JPW ... here's the msds on it ( warning pdf file )
http://www.howardproducts.com/msds/Feed-N-Wax.pdf

and the home page
http://www.howardproducts.com/feednwax.htm

hmmm beeswax, carnuba , and orange oil sounds like a decent base or additive anyways, i have noted that 357max likes orange oil so i simmered it down to get rid of the 15-40% aliphatic hydrocarbons , i made two batches from the results , the first was flux as i had made it too slippery ( live and learn ) the second i am still testing but it is much better than the first ! ( so far ) once simmered down it is still a bit soft ( to me anyways ) but as noted it has some carnuba and beeswax already in it , for it's intended purpose it actually works decent , yes i tried it on a old walnut piano bench , i tend to believe that it has a bit much orange oil in it but i'm not a expert on these things yet ,i did add more beeswax to it as well as a small bit ( 1 oz ) of hard taper candle , my finished sticks are what would definitely be called soft lube , i have more test to run before i publish anything else on it , so far it has worked on 45 acp as well as low and mid range 357's , as for accuracy it has been acceptable , i have some loaded in 357 herret and 357 mags in the mid to upper velocity levels , it still mite turn out ok or be a semi success ( which is where it is at now in my honest opinion ) i am interested in how ur tumble lube project comes out tho , g'luck !