First Smelt/how do I make ingots?

[Boolseye]

Hi folks,
I'm gearing up for my first smelt and I have a couple questions.
1. How do I get the melt into the ingot mold? Is a ladle necessary, can I just pour or should I transfer it into my electric pot and bottom pour it into the mold? Ladling in general is a little foggy–does the layer of sawdust on the top of the melt part as the ladle is withdrawn? It's all new to me.
2. Is there any particular technique for forming the ingots–do I need to quench them in any way, and how long do they take to "freeze"?
Any input is most welcome!
-jp

[fryboy]

2 . dont need to quench the ingots , ingots will be melted down later , either to use or to make alloy
the only reason i can see to quench an ingot is to test the hardness

1. it depends upon ur smelt pot ...and how much is in it

usually yes a ladle ( i have seen a cool home made/shop built bottom pour smelter ) once properly fluxed the smelt is skimmed, this is treated different than when ur casting where guys who use a bottom pour pot often leave the layer on top to help reduce oxidation , if ur making ingots u want it clean on top , only a small smelt would u be able to lift up and pour into ingots ( mine often weigh 70+ pounds )

[imashooter2]

How long an ingot takes to solidify enough to turn out of the mold depends on a few variables... How big is the ingot, how hot was the lead, how hot was the mold and how cool is the ambient air. I smelt using 4 Lyman molds and the two 1 pound sections off a Lee mold. For the first two pours on a 60 degree day, the molds cool fast enough that by the time I lay down the last, I can empty the first. After the second cycle, I have a minute or two wait before I can empty the molds again. If I borrow a couple of molds from friends and get 6 Lymans plus the Lee, I can pour continuously.

A ladle is certainly preferred for moving the melt to the molds. If you decide to lift the pot make absolutely sure you have a stout (no, really stout) handle. The handles and bails that come on kitchenware are NOT designed for the weight that pot will hold when full of lead. Cast iron frying pans are particularly dangerous. The weight will be well off center from that thin handle and they can easily twist in your grip. A pair of vise grip pliers on the pan edge would help with control.

[runfiverun]

forget the pouring from the pot.
i just went with a stainless steel soup ladle longish handeled.
same for the slotted spoon to dig the clips out with, you want something that is going to hold up.
and something that is going to take the heat well.
and a good pair of gloves, i went with welding gloves.
just flux the pot a couple of times as you empty it this will give your molds a bit of time to cool down as you go.
empty them as soon as you can, and expose them to the air as much as possible.
you can make some good ingot molds with some angle iron if you have any welding stuff.
if you are going to empty the pot all the way, get it down to where the ladle won't get any more, then use a pair of vise grips on the little tab.

[Kskybroom]

+1 +1
#1 Skim off Doss an fluxing
I mark my ingots with steel number stamp...

[Boolseye]

Thanks a lot, folks. I very much appreciate all the input. Happy Halloween!

[Echo]

Boolseye, I water-cool my muffin pan. I put the muffin pan in a large cookie sheet, and pour water into the CS. When I ladle the alloy into the muffin molds, the water boils around each cavity and cools the alloy so that by the time I pour the last of 12, the first are set, and the last will set momentarily. A few seconds more, and it's dump time. It really does speed up the process. Replenish the H2O and repeat...

[imashooter2]

Boolseye, I water-cool my muffin pan. I put the muffin pan in a large cookie sheet, and pour water into the CS. When I ladle the alloy into the muffin molds, the water boils around each cavity and cools the alloy so that by the time I pour the last of 12, the first are set, and the last will set momentarily. A few seconds more, and it's dump time. It really does speed up the process. Replenish the H2O and repeat...


But make absolutely sure no water is inside the cups before you pour or you'll get a steam explosion. A single drop will do it. Trust me, wearing molten metal will ruin your day.

[Boolseye]

Cool–ya know, I saw an old cast iron cornbread pan with about 16 cavities–mold the whole melt in one fell swoop. I might just pick it up–other than that, I've got one lyman mold racing across the country as we speak. It'll have to do for now.

[10 ga]

Be sure you are using ladle like a plumber would use. The kind in the kitchen are NOT ok for lead! A heavy steel or iron ladle is necessary unless you have a bottom pour smelting setup. Think safety always! 10 ga

[fredj338]

forget the pouring from the pot.
i just went with a stainless steel soup ladle longish handeled.
same for the slotted spoon to dig the clips out with, you want something that is going to hold up.
and something that is going to take the heat well.
and a good pair of gloves, i went with welding gloves.
just flux the pot a couple of times as you empty it this will give your molds a bit of time to cool down as you go.
empty them as soon as you can, and expose them to the air as much as possible.
you can make some good ingot molds with some angle iron if you have any welding stuff.
if you are going to empty the pot all the way, get it down to where the ladle won't get any more, then use a pair of vise grips on the little tab.

This is exaclty how I smelt. Custom sized angle or channel iron ingots are cheap if you weld or know a welder, & allow you 1#-5# depending on how full & nothing sticks to them. I actually use three ingot molds; Lyman iron for 1# pure lead, custom 3" channel for 2#-5#ww & an alum molds that casts 2"sq/2# for range lead. It keep smy alloy sperate & I know at a glance what I am reaching for to cast with.

[Boolseye]

smart, fredj. makes a lot of sense.

[fredj338]

smart, fredj. makes a lot of sense.
Not really, but thanks. One could just write on the ingots w/ a Sharpie, but then I would have to sort them & pay attention to which ingot. I know the diff at a glance w/ diff molds. I can even store them together in 5gal buckets & not get them mixed up.

[slim1836]

Be sure you are using ladle like a plumber would use. The kind in the kitchen are NOT ok for lead! A heavy steel or iron ladle is necessary unless you have a bottom pour smelting setup. Think safety always! 10 ga

10 ga,

I am fairly new to casting and reloading so I've got to ask. Why is a large commercial kitchen soup ladle not ok? I got one from a restaurant and have used it several times with no issues. It is stainless steel and holds enough to pour 2-3 1lb. ingots at a time. The handle does not flex when pouring and seems stout enough. I was going to get a large slotted and solid spoon from them, but if there are good reasons for not using them, please share them with me. I am on a tight budget (have not worked since March) and have not been able to afford the good stuff so I have to make do with what I've got.

Thanks,

Ralph

[Echo]

+1 for the slotted spoon, slim1836. but nix on the solid spoon. My guru from many years ago used a soup can held with vise-grips, and poured MANY ingots that way. Might try the soup-can/vise grip method.

[slim1836]

Echo,

The only reason I wanted the solid spoon was to get the lead from the very bottom of the steel pot (wok shaped) at the end of the smelting session.

Ralph

[lwknight]

Why is a large commercial kitchen soup ladle not ok? I got one from a restaurant and have used it several times with no issues

Nothing wrong with soup ladles. Just beware that the ones with bradded on handles might give up unexpectedly. I got a nice stainless coated copper ladle at Wally-world for 4 or 5 bucks that works grreat after a few fine adjustments to the curve of the handle and bowl part.

[sqlbullet]

Boolseye, I water-cool my muffin pan. I put the muffin pan in a large cookie sheet, and pour water into the CS. When I ladle the alloy into the muffin molds, the water boils around each cavity and cools the alloy so that by the time I pour the last of 12, the first are set, and the last will set momentarily. A few seconds more, and it's dump time. It really does speed up the process. Replenish the H2O and repeat...

I do the same with one modification. I place a folded hand towel in the bottom of the cookie sheet. It prevents so much pop and splash when I pour the lead into the ingot molds.

[buyobuyo]

Slim: I wouldn't worry about using stainless steel kitchen utensils. I use a SS ladle from wal-mart to pour my ingot. I use another ladle with holes drilled in it to remove clips.

[slim1836]

Slim: I wouldn't worry about using stainless steel kitchen utensils. I use a SS ladle from wal-mart to pour my ingot. I use another ladle with holes drilled in it to remove clips.

Thanks, I just wanted to make sure there was not something I was missing such as metal fatique and sudden failure on the utensil. Down the road I hope to obtain better equipment.

[fredj338]

10 ga,

I am fairly new to casting and reloading so I've got to ask. Why is a large commercial kitchen soup ladle not ok? I got one from a restaurant and have used it several times with no issues. It is stainless steel and holds enough to pour 2-3 1lb. ingots at a time. The handle does not flex when pouring and seems stout enough. I was going to get a large slotted and solid spoon from them, but if there are good reasons for not using them, please share them with me. I am on a tight budget (have not worked since March) and have not been able to afford the good stuff so I have to make do with what I've got.

Thanks,

Ralph
A heavy duty ss ladle, about 6oz, works fine. I've been using one for years now. A cheaper one might not hold up to the heat & the head pop off, that would be bad, but a good solid riveted style, fine.