Parker Hale 1861?

[LIMPINGJ]

I bought one today. It was one of the made in England ones, NIB but brass a Little tarnished and box has started to crumble. Elderly lady asked $450.00 so I did not haggle over price. Still from what I have read on line I got a deal. Anyone shooting shooting one of these and can make load suggestions.

[swamp]

I don't have the 1861 but do have the Parker-Hale musketoon. IRC the manual called for a 80gr charge of F powder. Could start with a charge of 60gr of FF or FFF and what boolit you are going to use. I cast five or six conicals in 58 and RB. My Musketoon seems to like the Lyman SWC style.

If you need some boolits to try PM me. 58 is my favorite M/L caliber with 36 a close second.

swamp

[Shooter]

My musketoon likes 50Gr. FFF under a Lyman minie.

[swamp]

It was not the Musketoon that used the 80gr charge but the Whitworth that I had.

Must be a case of olt timers(or CRS).

[cwskirmisher]

I have one I used to shoot in competition. For target use out to 100 yards, I shot 43 grains 3F (real BP) under a 500 grain new style Lyman minne sized to .575 (the bore is .577). Pure soft lead only. Lube with 50/50 crisco/beeswax in the grooves and a dab in the hollow base.

The sights as issued will shoot about 6" high at 50 yards, but will be pretty close at 100yds. Those of us who shoot target competition replace the front sight with a taller one for POA at 50 yards, then just put a shim under the ladder for 100 yards POA.

For hunting, 50-60 grains 3F or 60-70 2F is plenty for whitetails using the same minnie.

Great musket - good luck!

[oldhickory]

I've had one since sometime in the 70s. They ain't particular, with about any Minie weighing 460-570gr. you should be able to find a charge between 45-55gr. that works well. You can drop down to 35-40gr. for lighter boolits. The trick is to size the boolit .001-.002" under bore dia. and use a good lube, (beeswax and crisco have served me well for years). Snug the tang screw, (don't over-tighten) tighten the band screws just tight enough to keep the bands in place.

P-H barrels are some of the best in the world, if you can't get it to shoot with proper fitting ammo, a little dab of "Acura-Glass" gel at the breach and about 2" under the bbl. will usually fix things. The Parker-Hale Enfields are one of the few "re-creations" that truly are better than the origonals.

Some good discussion on P-H enfields can be found here, www.mlagb.com and here's a good place to start, some interesting reading, http://www.researchpress.co.uk/firearms/british/enfield/management.htm

[gnoahhh]

My 2-band P-H liked 60gr.FFFg Goex and an original style Minie out of an early Rapine mold, loaded via rolled paper cartridges. I sold it when putting the money together to buy an original 1861 Bridesburg contract musket. Even with the mint bore in it the Springfield doesn't have the accuracy of that P-H. Now decent P-H's are fetching what we were paying for originals not that long ago.

[oldhickory]

My 2-band P-H liked 60gr.FFFg Goex and an original style Minie out of an early Rapine mold, loaded via rolled paper cartridges. I sold it when putting the money together to buy an original 1861 Bridesburg contract musket. Even with the mint bore in it the Springfield doesn't have the accuracy of that P-H. Now decent P-H's are fetching what we were paying for originals not that long ago.

I wouldn't feel bad about selling a P-H to get a Bridesburg. Bridesburg was the best of the Springfield contracts with an A-1 acceptance record of over 99%, (Colt was the only contractor with a 100% A-1 acceptance record with their 1861 "Special" model, not the same as the Springfield).

The most likely cause your Bridesburg doesn't shoot as well as your P-H 2 bander is the rear sight placement on the barrel. The 1856/1858 sight placement is more forward than any other arm of it's era and easier to use. Another cause may be the stock drop, if you're a "low-neck" fellow like me, it seems that the higher comb Enfields just fit better. Original Springfields/contract rifle muskets are notorious for big bores, (.580-.585). Is your boolit just shy of .001-.002" bore dia? If everything fits, try replacing the rear sight leaf with a blank and drilling a small hole in it as a peep and shooting for groups. A Bridesburg with a nice bore should shoot right along side of any modern made rifle musket.

[LIMPINGJ]

Thanks for the load suggestions. First thing it needs is a complete disassembly and good cleaning. It must have been sitting in the box since they came out in the 70s. Green goo on the brass, old dried oil and Styrofoam stick to the stock. Then to order a mold. The only things missing from the box were a manual if it came with one and the little nipple protector on a chain. Does anyone know where I could find either of these items or if you have one for sale.

[59sharps]

behind the P-H minie I used 48 of 3fffg goex w/ the hodgens I use 42 of 3fffg goex. hodgens w/ Swiss 38 of 3fffg.

[oldhickory]

Measure the bore first, (land dia. not groove) and order a mold size several thou. over that and a push through sizer, (Buckshot can make you one) .001-.002 under bore. Example, if your bore is .577 you'll want a mold that casts .577-.579 and a sizer .576-.575. Pan lube and use a dowel shaped on one end to push your boolits through.

[Shooter]

Dixie Gun Works used to carry the nipple protector.

[Andy Mac]

If you put some of that ,Acura-Glass gel, under the tang you can get that nice and tight too.

[Buckshot]

.............If I'm not mistaken I believe the M61 Artillery Carbine was the first MLing rifle P-H made. I have a P-H Whitworth and a P-H P58 Naval Pattern 2 Band Enfield:

http://www.fototime.com/2F3AB89A064CE52/standard.jpg http://www.fototime.com/A203AE713612238/standard.jpg

It has 5 grooves of progressive depth and a 48" twist. Once I figured out how it liked it's Minie' boolits lubed (it's fussy about that) it was a shooting essobee. It also has disticntive likes and dislikes for lube types. It doesn't like lube in the grooves, but prefers it in the base only. It will shoot kinda okay with Crisco, but not for very long before fouling. It LOVES Bore Butter (naturally, it's much more expensive!)

http://www.fototime.com/BC463EE9877226C/standard.jpghttp://www.fototime.com/6BF0D8313CD43F3/standard.jpg

Left Photo This was a spur of the moment test I did for a buddy who was shooting a Zouave and we were talking lube. He didn't believe my Enfield wouldn't shoot Crisco as well as the Bore Butter, as his Zouave liked it. I started each 5 shot group (50 yards) from a clean barrel, and this was the result. Right Photo This was at 50 yards and used weighed slugs & powder charges. A damp cloth patch was used on the range rod when the Minie' was seated, so basically the bore was wiped for each shot.

http://www.fototime.com/C75E453AEFB1E35/standard.jpghttp://www.fototime.com/2E281ACCB50C372/standard.jpg

Left PhotoOne of the niceities of that 48" twist is the ability to shoot heavier then normal Minie' boolits. Due to the design of the blocks and cavity pin, you can create some Lyman 575611 Minie's almost 100grs heavier then normal. Just make a spacer to hold the pin out farther. The 575611 is a great slug for heavier charges due to it's thick skirt. Right Photo These 2 five shot groups were done at 50 yards using the modified Lyman 575611 @ 624 grains. Please forgive the Pyrodex try :-). I was GIVEN a pound of the stuff. Check out the charge weight and velocity differences!

http://www.fototime.com/09E2E1B9B43E025/standard.jpghttp://www.fototime.com/459CC6644574DB5/standard.jpg

Left Photo 1st 5 rounds, Burrito Match with muzzleloaders. P58 Enfield. 40grs Elephant 3Fg Lee Target Minie. 50 yards offhand. Right Photo 2nd 5 rounds. We'd shoot 10 rounds for the match, but my first 5 were so nice I wanted to save the target, so replaced it during a break. The second wasn't quite as nice but a 91-2X wasn't too bad a score I didn't think, and I won the match with it[smilie=l:

....................Buckshot

[John in PA]

In the BoreButter/Crisco comparo, what's that long semi-wadcutter minie? Interesting looking boolit.

I shoot a two-band Enfield with 55gr 2F and a Lyman 575213-old style, and the 3-band Enfield likes 45gr 3F with a NEI modified 450 gr semiwadcutter with a thick skirt (looks like the minie that Ball Accuracy used to sell at Ft. Shenandoah.

[LIMPINGJ]

How do you slug the bore in a ML?
Thanks.

[Buckshot]

In the BoreButter/Crisco comparo, what's that long semi-wadcutter minie? Interesting looking boolit.

I shoot a two-band Enfield with 55gr 2F and a Lyman 575213-old style, and the 3-band Enfield likes 45gr 3F with a NEI modified 450 gr semiwadcutter with a thick skirt (looks like the minie that Ball Accuracy used to sell at Ft. Shenandoah.

..............Maven sold me that mould 5-6 years ago and it's 545 grs. It was made by Challanger which is or has been defunct for some time. DGW had a ton of Challanger moulds they were practically giving away earlier this year (like $12 each IIRC). There were about 8 different types and all for 58 cal. I got 4 of'em and the only descriptions Dixie had was the OD and weight. Turns out 3 of'em were basically HB full wadcutters, tha last was a conventional type Minie'.

.............Buckshot

[Dean D.]

How do you slug the bore in a ML?
Thanks.

One way is to find a brass rod a foot or so long that is small enough to fit your bore loosely. Slide the rod into the bore before you drive your pure lead slug into the muzzle. Now tip the gun muzzle down and bounce it up and down to cause the brass rod to act like a slide hammer. This will drive the slug back out of the barrel.

[LIMPINGJ]

Thanks Dean

[oldhickory]

Use pin gauges, you're not measuring groove dia in this case, you want land dia with a rifle musket for a proper size on your minies.

[roverboy]

Anybody hunt with one of these rifles?

[oldhickory]

Yes, a Rapine 580460 sized to .578 and 55gr. of FFFg. works well out to 100yds for me. The Musketoon makes a great woods rifle due to it's short length and light weight.

[roverboy]

OldHickory, that should be a hammer in the woods.

[oldhickory]

OldHickory, that should be a hammer in the woods.

The wound channels closely resemble those of a .30/06 with a 150gr. j-bullet on deer shot at around 50yds. I've never recovered a boolit from a deer, but I can well imagine it distorted a bit being pure lead. It gives an idea of the wounds suffered by men in the unpleasentness of 1861-1865 and may help explain the number of amputations suffered by them.

I recently read a first-hand account of a Mississippi Soldier of Barksdale's Brigade shot in the hand at Gettysburg on the afternoon of July 2, 1863 by a Burton, (Minie) boolit. He said being struck was like holding onto a fence rail and having the other end dropped onto a rock. He waisted no time in going to the rear for medical aid.

[quilbilly]

I have had my P/H 2-band for about 20 years and have hunted with it whenever weather would allow (too valuable to take out in the Northwest monsoons). My biggest surprise with the rifle was how well it shot with patched round ball. It gets 2" groups at 50 yards with 70 gr of FFF Goex. It has taken a couple deer and one smallish cow elk.
I do prefer to hunt with a rifle a little smaller and lighter.

[LIMPINGJ]

Buckshot how was the quality of the Challanger molds and how was the accuracy of the HBWC? I have never seen a WC style Minie and was wondering how they shot.

[Hellgate]

My Musketoon is a great little brush gun and has collected a nice young cow elk. It is easy to load in a hurry. I put a slip-on rubber shotgun recoil pad and shoot 90grs FFg under a Lyman 577611 530gr heavy skirted minie. Went through both shoulder blades, nicked the spine and out the other side to who knows where. It was a lucky but quick 50yd shot. Sighted in for 5" high at 50yds to be right on at 100.

[Buckshot]

Buckshot how was the quality of the Challanger molds and how was the accuracy of the HBWC? I have never seen a WC style Minie and was wondering how they shot.

...............Haven't shot any of the full WC's yet. I was a bit disappointed getting those, as I wasn't wanting WC's :-) However Dixie's only description was the weight and OD. QUality of the moulds is fine. Captive HB pin, aluminum blocks.

Hey still have them, just checked. They're $10 each and with the exception of a 315gr .585" conical the rest are all WC's of various weights and (58 cal-ish) OD's. At: http://www.dixiegunworks.com/advanced_search_result.php?keywords=mould&sort=2a&&page=4

...........Buckshot