Mold for AR-15 - Bator vs. Saeco #221

[orygun_native]

I've been kicking around the idea of casting for my AR for some time now. I was looking at a 4 cavity Saeco 221 mold because as much as I shoot my AR I'd like to have the production, but sticker shock gets me. I just saw now that the Bator mold at Midsouth is coming in a 6 cavity so I have one of those on the way. My question is: which boolit would be better for my AR with the 1:9 twist. I may someday try to do a build with 1:12 but for now my 1:9 Stag will have to do. I see from searching that the Bator has had some success in AR's but didn't know if the heavier Saeco #221 would be that much better. The cost between the two is almost $150 and so didn't know if it the Saeco is better is it $150 better.

[Moonie]

Well that's just great, hasn't been that long since I got my 2 cav Bator, now they come out with a 6...

I have no experience with the Saeco but I do with the Bator, I'll have to get the 6 cav now. I have 3 boys that like shooting the AR as well and with the reject rate of those small cavity molds 3x the production would be great.

[orygun_native]

The production factor is what was keeping me from buying a Bator mold. I just happened to stumble on it. The price can't be beat which is why I don't think I can justify the #221. But if there's a significant advantage I'd really look at the Saeco mold. Here's the link to the 6 cavity, and it looks to be in stock as of now:
http://www.midsouthshooterssupply.com/item.asp?sku=0000622BATOR6

What kind of results have you had with the Bator bullet in your AR? What kind of AR and what loads are you working with?

[JIMinPHX]

If you can get the Bator to feed, it should shoot well.

[Doc Highwall]

I bought the SAECO #221 and have cast up several hundred but due to health problems I have not shot it yet. The SAECO #221 does have a pointier nose that should allow better feeding as I plan on using this in an AR, bolt and a single shot.

[lesharris]

The 6 cavity Bator is in stock. I just ordered 2 to match the 2 other Bator molds I have.
They cast easily,but due to small size rejection rate is pretty high.

Les.

[RP]

But how do they feed in autos like ARs and mini 14s I want to cast for mine just dont want a jam master boolit any feed back on this before I order one.

[Moonie]

The only problem I have had with feeding was with the mil-spec followers, last round in the mag would tip up the follower and would jam. I have fixed this with Mag-pul self leveling followers. Will test them out this weekend.

18gr of H4895 and a light action spring functions perfectly with my midlength upper.

The upper I have is a generic mid length upper we purchased through m-aparts.com with M4 cuts which may help some.

To chamber properly the Bator must be seated pretty deep in the case which I believe was what caused the tipped follower issue.

[orygun_native]

Thanks for the feedback Moonie. What are you using for OAL and what are you using for lead in your boolits?

[Moonie]

At work currently will have to get back to you on OAL. Using WDWW, Gator GC's and FWFL lube.

Have only fired about a dozen shots so far for testing. Will get a real work out this weekend at the range.

No leading at all after the dozen or so that have been shot so far, nice shinny bore, but then I do have a bit of carnuba in the FWFL.

[Doc Highwall]

I took a picture of the N.O.E. 55 grain that is a copy of the RCBS 22-055-SP and the SAECO #221 so you can compare both the profile along with the nose.

[reloader28]

I bought the Saeco 2 cavity mold back at spring turkey time. Casts very nice with hardly no rejects. I cast about 500 or 600 boolits, but have been too busy all summer with other calibers and aint shot any yet.

I finally ordered the sizer and top punch and they should be here tomorrow. I cant wait to try it in my mini 14. I want to try and make it work in my 223WSSM, but I have no idea if that will work even loaded VERY light.

In my opinion, the Saeco is a very nice, smooth running mold and I think it was worth the money. But I aint tried a Bator even tho I'd like to get one.

[orygun_native]

So Reloader28 and Moonie are going to do range reports?:D It would be sweet to see how the two are performing in a semi-auto.

[Moonie]

I will do so tomorrow after I get done shooting. Will also be shooting my new 6.8 SPC upper for the first time :bigsmyl2:

[reloader28]

I'm going to try to shoot some 223 this weekend since my sizer came in today. Wont make any promises as I am trying to get the cool room and man cave ready for Monday deer opener here. Have friends from Mississippi coming in Sunday.

Went to town this afternoon to get my tag and came home with a pair of 380 auto Hi-Point's. They are cheap guns, but I've had good luck with them in the past and I couldnt beat the price for what I do with them.

I didnt have any brass so I bought 4 boxes of ammo for them. It really gripes my *** to buy ammo. I hate it. I cant remember the last time I bought factory ammo for anything. I've shot nothing but homemade cast in my pistols for about 5 or 6 years now. This morning was the first condom rifle bullets I've shot in a year. Whats the world coming to?

Oh well, this will just remind me of why I make my own.

[Moonie]

Ok, had alot of issues shooting. I had to seat the boolits deeper in the case which pealed off a ring of lead. I believe this caused my issues. Some of the rounds wouldn't fully chamber when the action cycled.

Will be working on the loading technique which I'm sure is the issue. Never loaded for a semi rifle before, it is a work in progress...

On a good note, accuracy was good for iron sights and absolutely no leading whatsoever. Interestingly the 18gr load not only functioned with the light action spring it also functioned with the standard carbine spring...

[69daytona]

Ive used the N.O.E. 55gr in my AR and loaded one at a time it shot very well for the subsonic loads I was shooting, when loaded in the mags it would shave a little off when feeding, this was due to a soft mix. I think they would do very well cast of linotype or something a little harder than 12bhn.

[Moonie]

I'm using WDWW so they should be north of 12bhn

[MT Gianni]

Any reports on the 6 cavity Bator? Is it staying warm enough for good fill out with only those 55 gr holes?

[Landric]

I just ordered myself a 6-cavity Bator. I have the two cavity, and I haven't had any problems with fill out with it, it will be interesting to see how the 6-cavity does. I haven't had a chance to shoot any of them yet as family responsibilities and work have gotten in the way, but they cast nicely. It will be interesting to see if they work well in my Mini-14. If not, I'm planning on some kind of .224 caliber centerfire cartridge barrel for my recently acquired Contender, and I'm sure I can make use of them in that if not my Mini.

[reloader28]

Well, I just took time out from deer hunting to shoot a few Saeco 60gr from my Mini-14. I have no idea how many jacketed bullets this thing has thru it, but I did nothing more than take it out of the closet and looked in the reloading book.

I picked 8gr Unique, Fed small rifle primer, R-P cases. I seated them at 2.217 which is just above the lube groove. Shot 4, five shot groups with this load at 50 yds and got nice groups I think. They were all about the same, so I measured the last one and had 4 in 15/16" and 1 flyer at 1 5/8". Average speed was 1953fps, 14 es, 6 sd. The alloy was straight WW air cooled.

This gun shoots condom bullets at about the same groups, so as this is the only cast load I've tried, I am happy so far.

[orygun_native]

Those are some great results. I may have to eventually go with the Saeco mold. I just got my six cavity bator mold and it is so light. I hope it casts well. Hopefully o can do some this weekend.

[Doc Highwall]

reloader28, what did you use for a lube and what size did you size them to? Also were you shooting with a scope or iron sights?

[reloader28]

Scope.
50/50 beeswax / alox with 10% parafane wax.
Size was .2245-.225. I might try and ream out the sizer, but I'll see how it goes.

[reloader28]

Update
Tried this exact load (8grs Unique) from my buddies 26" bull barrel Howa and out of 15 rounds we had 4 fliers. The rest went into a 1/2" hole at 50yds. He was very happy and we might have another convert to cast boolits.

[Mill3rman3]

Where are you guys getting the sizing dies for the 223 heads? and what diameter are you using?

[reloader28]

I'm using a Lyman sizer from MidwayUSA and sizing .225.

I should add that the Unique load didnt work the action on the mini-14. I dont mind that much cause that way I can keep track of my brass.

[orygun_native]

I'm using a Lyman sizer from MidwayUSA and sizing .225.

I should add that the Unique load didnt work the action on the mini-14. I dont mind that much cause that way I can keep track of my brass.

Have you had any luck with loads that will cycle your mini?

[reloader28]

The only other thing I've had a chance to shoot was 13gr and 14gr of IMR 4198. 14gr threw the brass about 6' but grouped over 2" at 50yds. 13gr threw the brass about 3' and grouped 7/8" at 50yds. I've been wanting to do more but between not having the time right now and nasty weather, I aint got to it. If I'm on the ball after work, I have time for about 2 groups before it gets dark.

BTW, this is with AC/WW. I have 300 of them oven heat treated, but they'll have to wait a few more days. If I had a basement, I have the means to put in an underground 50yder to use whenever I wanted.

[orygun_native]

I'm hoping to get my 6 cavity Bator mold out this weekend and see how it does. Going to go with WDWW to start with.

[tanstafl10]

nice thread guys.....
moves me to start the project that I have had in mind for me and my youngest son.
data also provides a starting point.

Thanks again!

[Moonie]

18gr of H4895 and the bator cycled my AR-15. I'm having other issues I believe are reloading technique issues.

16" midlength gas port.

[FredT]

I am glad that I was looking on this site tonight. I was looking at a Bator mold on Ebay, but you guys posted that MidSouth has them in stock. One is now headed my way at a good price. I hope my .223 Rem Bullberry TC barrel appreciates what I am doing for it.

[Christorbust]

Trying to breathe life into an old thread....I would love to see hear more about this bator flying through semi's, as I had Midsouth send me the last stocked 6 holer, sorry boys. They still have one 2 holer left if you'd like to learn for me :D

I'll be loading for a couple of AR-15's, one has a 1/12 twist, haven't checked the other yet.

I will report back with info, as I'm sure there are plenty who would love to not have to use jackets in them.