Pistol primers in '06

[rockrat]

Bought an Enfield sporter from someone on this site, who subsequently left to go full time to the CBA site. Gun looked good, at first, but mounted scope and found rear sight base hole was off-center. Should have given me a clue. Took to the range to see how would shoot (scope windage all the way to the right). Pulled trigger, CLICK. Nothing would fire, even factory loads. Found a few rounds loaded with the 311284. Tried them, bullet jammed into throat, but got bolt closed. Guess was holding case against boltface, as they fired.

Seems like someone might have lapped the lugs and went too far as it appears headspace is too big. Put masking tape on case head. One layer closed easily, two layers was snug. Put new firing pin in as old one was a bit short and tip was not correct. Still won't go off with rifle primers, but will with pistol primers. Plan on only light loads, IE 13gr Red dot or 15-16gr Unique, possibly try 2400 too.

Any drawbacks in using pistol primers for light loads?

Tried to pull the barrel, to set it back, but barrel too tight for my tools. Shoots most of the time using a bolt from my 1917 origional enfield, but still misfires about 15% of the time using rifle primers. Tried to find another bolt, but no luck so far.

Wasn't my week as found a Springfield sporter, reasonable. Found out why, barrel bulged about 4" from muzzle. Found anothe barrel, now to just fit it on the action.

[madsenshooter]

Sounds like you need a new firing pin spring. Though it wouldn't matter in this case, I think firing pistol primers in my 336 is what broke the firing pin. What would be normal pressure loads for the 336 in 35 Rem was enough to crater the pistol primers and the firing pin was getting the pressure applied to it. It took about 40 of them before it broke. I'd fit the new barrel, replace the firing pin spring, and forget the pistol primers. I thought of another reason, in my Krags they always pierced.

[Bret4207]

Are you getting a good hit? Could be the spring, could be old hard grease in the bolt too. The headspace is easily remedied by sizing to your gun chamber, IOW- don't cram the case in the FL size die till it's too short. Just partially FL size till the bolt just closes and set the die there.

[Calamity Jake]

Change the firing pin spring then load that 311284 boolit again just like before, seated into the lands then fire form some brass for that gun only then neck size, problem solved!!!

And yes pistol primers work for low pressure loads in rifle cases, I do it all the time

[elk hunter]

Headspace on M-1917's tends to be a bit on the loose side in most that I've checked, but not enough to cause misfires. If it were me I'd take one of the cases that did fire and neck size it only, then load it up and try it with rifle primers, this should hold the case closer to the face of the bolt. If it doesn't fire, you more than likely have some sort of firing pin or spring problem.

[Jack Stanley]

I don't have enough 1917 experience to fill a bottle cap sorry I can't help you with the rifle .

As for pistol primers in rifle loads , I will use them for gallery loads and sometimes slightly stiffer loads . I don't use them when the pressures of the load I'm useing start getting into what "magnum" pistol loads would be . I think that is about 35,000 CUP , I estimate with my loads I stop when pressure reaches about thirty thousand or before . At that point I go back to rifle primers .


Hope ya get your rifle working .

Jack

[rockrat]

It has one of the cock-on-opening kits, so the FP spring is stronger than stock. Will just fireform to chamber and segregate for use in that gun only.
Thanks

[Char-Gar]

Looks like you have the issue well in hand.

I am just sorry you got bit, by a member of this board, albeit a former member. I would have expected better from this community. But, we have grown so rapidly, some riff-raft will be blown in with the good folks. Honest folks won't sell anything without disclosing problems and defects with the goods.

That rear mount hole can be filled and moved.

[R.C. Hatter]

:coffeecom For what its worth, I routinely use large pistol primers in .30/06 for reduced loads i.e. plinking with light cast bullet of 115 grs. with gas check. 10 gr. of Unique, 12 grs. #2400 serve well for the purpose. The pistol primers prevent much of the case shortening associated with using large rifle primers in such loads, as pointed out by E.H. Harrison in the cast bullet book formerly put out through the NRA. I have used such loads in the same lot of cases, some of which date to 1940, for over 40 years. I neck size only for these loads.

[beagle]

Not a thing wrong with loading LP primers for cast loads. I did have a M94 with all the "lawyer ****" in it that missfired with LP primers. The primer heighth was too low and the firing pin throw was too short. Changing to LR primers cured it.

On a rifle like the Enfield or a Springfield with a good heavy throw, it shouldn't be a problem at all./beagle

[rockrat]

Would not have figured to be "taken" by a member of this board either, but looking at his ranting over at CBA , about this board, I should not be too shocked I guess.

Got it figured out. Sized a case using my 35 whelen die, then re-sized with the '06 die backed out. Turned it in until bolt would close with some snugness the last 20 degrees or so of bolt closure. Tried a primed case, twice, and both went off , using LR primers.

Made a brass shim for the left side of the rear mount. Moved the scope over enough to work OK.

Time to load some and try and see how the rifle shoots.

Thanks

[Bret4207]

Oh great, now I'm gonna have to go to CBA board and see if I can figure out who it is.

[Three44s]

The Remington made guns that are "Eddystones" have barrels that were tightened with hydraulic equipment.

Forcing one of these barrels could end up cracking your receiver, the required removal method involves cutting a relief where barrel meets the receiver face thus rendering your barrel into a fence post.

If your "17" is an Eddystone that may be why you could not loosen your tube.

Headspacing your brass to your current barrel is by far the most economical solution.

Three 44s

[rockrat]

Too nice a bore to turn it into a fence post!!! Its not an Eddystone

Sorry Bret4207, I guess I should have not posted about the CBA site, don't want you Blood pressure to spike.

I apologize for "stirring the pot"

[AviatorTroy]

Not sure if you know about this, but I've read if you have too much headspace in an Enfield, you can roll a rubber o ring down over the head of the case up against the rim, and that should take up the slack enough to fire it. Then once you have enough once fired cases in that particular rifle, just neck size them from now on and should be fine.

Oh yea and I've had to soak bolts overnight in carburetor cleaner to get them to loosen up and act right! [smilie=l:

Here's that article...

http://www.gunandgame.com/forums/powder-keg/96612-o-ring-fire-forming.html

[Bret4207]

Too nice a bore to turn it into a fence post!!! Its not an Eddystone

Sorry Bret4207, I guess I should have not posted about the CBA site, don't want you Blood pressure to spike.

I apologize for "stirring the pot"

Yeah, I see what you mean. Nice bunch of garbage being spewed there, eh? Got the gun from George?

[Multigunner]

Not sure if you know about this, but I've read if you have too much headspace in an Enfield, you can roll a rubber o ring down over the head of the case up against the rim, and that should take up the slack enough to fire it. Then once you have enough once fired cases in that particular rifle, just neck size them from now on and should be fine.
Won't work with the rimless .30-06 case of a 1917 Eddystone/ Enfield.



rockrat:
It has one of the cock-on-opening kits, so the FP spring is stronger than stock.

I've often heard that the cock on opening conversions could have high incidence of misfires. If what I've read is correct the conversion leaves the striker travel shorter than the original.

The Remington Model 30 could be had in Cock on Opening, but I would expect those were new made and a redesign rather than a conversion.
A strong spring can only do so much if the striker travel is too short to build up speed/energy of the pin fall.

Unless you are married to the cock on opening feature I'd suggest restoring the OEM parts for the longer Cock on closing striker fall.

[AviatorTroy]

Ahhh didn't realize those were chambered in .30-06. That's a different story now.

[Mk42gunner]

Ahhh didn't realize those were chambered in .30-06. That's a different story now.

Troy,

I have read of your idea, you just had the wrong Enfield in mind.


Won't work with the rimless .30-06 case of a 1917 Eddystone/ Enfield.



I've often heard that the cock on opening conversions could have high incidence of misfires. If what I've read is correct the conversion leaves the striker travel shorter than the original.

The Remington Model 30 could be had in Cock on Opening, but I would expect those were new made and a redesign rather than a conversion.
A strong spring can only do so much if the striker travel is too short to build up speed/energy of the pin fall.

Unless you are married to the cock on opening feature I'd suggest restoring the OEM parts for the longer Cock on closing striker fall.

Fromwhat I remember reading in Gunsmithing by Roy Dunlap; you have to replace the firing pin, firing pin spring and the cocking piece with Model 30 parts. Good luck finding them now.

Robert

[elk hunter]

For what it's worth, I've used several of the "Gun Parts" cock-on-opening kits and have never had a problem. Yes, they do shorten the fall and make up for it with a stiffer spring. I've read or heard that with the stiffer spring there can be drag induced by the spring bunching and rubbing on the inside of the bolt thus slowing down striker fall, but again I've never had a problem.

RockRat,

If you continue to have problems and would like to convert back to the original cock-on-closing mode, let me know I'm sure I have an original cocking piece, spring and firing pin that you can have for postage.

[rockrat]

Thanks for the offer, but I have the parts now to convert back.

Went to the range, everything fired:).

Bad part, rear scope base screw sheared off, wondered why groups were so bad. Didn't notice till I shot all the ammo:(