Lead Exposure

[largecaliberman]

Around 10 months ago, I got a lead level check on a routine blood test for cholesterol. The results 10 months ago was 8ppm. Recently I went through a cholesterol check and requested for a lead check and the results came back with a lead level check of 11.3 ppm. :neutral: The doctor said that 10ppm was the alert level and I just don't want it to go any further.

Question: Has anyone encountered this problem? If so, what can be done? I don't want to give up this hobby.:castmine:

I recently purchased some vitamins and food supplements that claims to rid the body of heavy metals called Metal Magnet that I found on amazon.com and a product called Sonne 7 that claims to do the same plus other toxins such as THC


In the meantime, I'll try the products and will go for another checkup in two months. Any suggestions at this point?:confused:

[felix]

Zinc pills. Suck on them. Swallowing makes some folks have a tummy ache. Good for reducing prostate size too. Remember, zinc is also toxic, so take just enough for the lead levels to go down to "normal". ... felix

[R.M.]

My levels have been hanging around 18/19 for years. My Dr. says 18 is borderline toxic, and as long as it stays there, no problem. My wife's was up over 30 for a while. We've been taking 1000mg of Vitamin C which is supposed to help. Hers is back down about 15 now after wearing a resperator while shooting indoors.
Keep an eye on it, but don't fret about it either. One guy at our club has a level of 65, and he doesn't cast, just shoots a lot.

[9.3X62AL]

Orange juice is a chelating agent for lead, I drink a lot of that and lead levels don't even bump on my annual "drug lab leftover" testing I get. The EPA needs to find another bogeyman, AFAIC.

[Lloyd Smale]

I was treated twice for high levels once at 65 and once at 40 with chelting medication precribed by the doctor. Last time it took it down to about 10 and the doc wasnt conserned at that level. Should get it checked again soon.

[Four Fingers of Death]

Zinc pills. Suck on them. Swallowing makes some folks have a tummy ache. Good for reducing prostate size too. Remember, zinc is also toxic, so take just enough for the lead levels to go down to "normal". ... felix


And I always thought that you had to aviod zinc when casting :-) (just joking).

I used to mix red lead into paint for my grandfather when I was a child helping him and did a lot of casting and loading for the pistol club (all lead) and, to top it off I used to shoot a revolver in an indoor range. I went to the Doc and got tested and he said that I was barely on the scale. Go figure.

What he did say that most people who had a lead problem ate the old flakes off flaky paint as children, because it has a sweet taste (old lead based paint) or sucked on lead pencils constantly. I'm 58 and the lead was taken out of these when I was in primary school. They used to go blue if you wet the lead (in your mouth of course, :-( )

It never occured to me to eat paint flakes as a child, even though there was always things lined up outside grandpa's oaintshop awaiting our attention. If another child had of told me it tasted good at that stage I probably would have tried it. My sister and I used to eat gazillions of little flowers mum had in her garden because they used to taste ok and tingle on your tongue, heaven knows what was in them. Mick.

[NVcurmudgeon]

It may not be casting that is causing high lead levels. Lead vaporizes at a temperature much higher than would be practical for casting boolits. If memory serves, it is about 1200 F. Back before the EPA's crusade on lead, it was a common affliction of automobile mechanics, painters, and urban residents. About four years ago Shooters had posts from a number of us, including me, who had been tested for lead. We were all normal, or at least our lead level was normal. My total precaution program has been:
1. good ventilation
2. no eating, drinking, or smoking while casting or smelting
3. wearing gloves and washing hands thoroughly after lead exposure
I began serious casting in the mid sixties, and was tested for lead in 2002. I am more concerned about the grease, paint, dog urine, and unknown substances I may breathe while smelting than I am about lead.

[Four Fingers of Death]

Get your hound to hell outa there curmudgeon, Phewwwwwwww!

Wiping your nose if you sniffle is a high risk thing as well as washing, eating, etc as the membrane is porous there. We were always careful when working in prison hospitals and wiped our noses on our sleeve if it was really driving you mad while you were in the middle of something. Mick.

[trooperdan]

Actually, I've been afraid to ask for a lead level check with I see the doc. I've heard that if you are over some EPA defined limit, a report has to be made to EPA or someone and a survey had to be done to locate the source of the lead. I read on another forum of a guy who's young son came up "hot" for lead and his house was condemmed until he spent about $30,000 on lead abatement procedures.

Does anyone know if this is indeed the case?

[PatMarlin]

Casting fumes are the least of the problem. What's the highest lead exposer for cast booliteers is case tumbling. Do NOT do it in the house, and make sure it's handled properly.

Eating and drinking is OK if you don't touch your food with lead fingers, but think about it... your reloding press, lube press, dies, computer keyboard, and bullets all probably have a lead residue.

I think it would be a good idea to do a wipe down, dispose of the cleaning apparatus and then wash you hands. Every time I get up and walk out of that room, I was my hands, and that's several times a day.

Gun cleaning and handling has lead too. Gotta be carful with that stuff. The case tumbling residue on surfaces and air is by far the worst... :drinks:

[Wayne Smith]

I'm getting the lead out of my 8x56R Steyr now. Using everything from lead removal cloth, chore boy, to Hoppe's Elite. My hands have been black with the dissolved lead just from the cleaning rod. Bullets are the least of it!

LOML wanted me to have my lead levels tested this spring when I had a bunch of diagnostic blood tests done. My lab printed that 'normal' was 0.00-25.0 - no measure listed (PPM?). Mine was 4.9. This was after I had cast several hundred bullets the Sunday afternoon before the Monday AM blood drawing.

[Ron]

The Australian situation, at least for the state of Victoria is:-

Because our club shoots on an indoor Police Dept range, we have to submit blood test results to the Dept every 6 months. This also applies to all full time pistol/weapons instructors.

Normal blood/lead levels are:- Males 0.45 umol/L and females 0.42 umol/L.

Lead industry workers must be removed from the workplace if levels are at or exceed:-
Males/females not of reproductive capacity - 2.41 umol/L
females of reproductive capacity - 0.97 umol/L
females who are pregnant or breast feeding - 0.72 umol/L

N. H. & M. R. C. recommends that intervention must be conducted at the following levels:-
Children <= 3 years and pregnant women - > o.48 umol/L
Children > 3 years - > 0.72 umol/L

[arkypete]

There's more to the lead 'poisoning' then bullet casting, shooting indoors, dealing with lead based paint,etc.
A number of years ago I was restoring a home, burning the old paint of the wood work, inside, casting thousands of bullets out doors, that were shoot at an indoor range.
Then this whole hullabalew about lead got started, so I had a blood test. Blood levels of lead were below what the average guy on the street has.
Of course my wife at the time, was of the opinion that all the lead I ingested settled in my head, where it never moved.
Jim

[PatMarlin]

Mine has settled in my butt, so I don't worry about it.. :mrgreen:


...

[KCSO]

Lead comes from holes in the ground and most of Missouri is topsoil over lead. If lead is this bad why is anyone still alive in Missouri. I worked side by side with a fellow casting and loading for our department and training on the range. His lead is 10 points higher than mine, no one can tell us why. Meanwhile my wife and I eat the same food every day and her chorosterol is high and mine is low.

At least when I kick off the doctors will be able to find a reason, it would sure be a shame to be laying there dead for no reason at all.

[robertbank]

Kind of a pain to be told you are dieing of nothing! What a bummer.

Take Care

Bob

[PatMarlin]

Well we really don't know if lead is bad for us do we? Just the levels, not the lead.. :mrgreen:

[robertbank]

Hey when I go my sons will be able to melt me down and use me for bullets.:mrgreen: On second thought I don't think I will, might save all those virgins for those guys blowing each other up over Afghanistan. Like with my luck I'll get one who hides her face in a vail for a reason!

Take Care

Bob

[Lloyd Smale]

this is true. They contacted me and asked about lead in the workplace. I told them exactly how i got it and they did a couple follow up calls and that was it. No big deal. Just make sure if you dont want to get work involved you dont tell them that theres even a scrap of lead there. Ive been treated twice for it by a doctor and no one ever came knocking at my door.
Actually, I've been afraid to ask for a lead level check with I see the doc. I've heard that if you are over some EPA defined limit, a report has to be made to EPA or someone and a survey had to be done to locate the source of the lead. I read on another forum of a guy who's young son came up "hot" for lead and his house was condemmed until he spent about $30,000 on lead abatement procedures.

Does anyone know if this is indeed the case?

[PatMarlin]

That's just great. Keep a guy from getting checked cause he may get hammered financially and loose his home.. :roll:

I was over in Vietnam and Cambodia in 97' and when I came home, I had a wittle stomach ache that would not quit.

I went to the Doc and he came back in the office with this shocked look on his face and said, "You've got Salmonella", and I said calm down Doc, and told him where I had just come from.

He had to report it. You woulda thought I had the Ebola plague as the health department goons came to my home, wanted to inspect my house, question every place I had been cause they didn't believe my story at first.

Incidentally- would they have done that with an "Undocumented Migrant Alien".... Hmmmm?..:roll:


...

[PatMarlin]

Salmonella here.... :mrgreen:

[PatMarlin]

On to the mountains and jungles with a Kalashnikov.. :Fire:


...

[PatMarlin]

Sipping an adult beverage on the Mekong.. :coffee: [smilie=1: .....:mrgreen:


...

[bruce drake]

A Big Guy like you drinking out of a straw?! What is this world coming to... Next you'll say you are trading in your lever actions for one of the new plastic-stocked polygonal rifled .375 Whiz-bang Magnums because you read about it in the latest Gunshooter Magazine...

Just starting stuff.... Glad to hear you are better.

Bruce

[PatMarlin]

At least I'm not using my tea cup pinky.. :mrgreen:

[Wayne Smith]

Our bodies are wonderful and beautifully made. Each one is different, and different biochemically. There are enough commonalities that many meds work, but with varying and different secondary (side) effects. All of our bodies make colesteral, it's necessary. Some do a better job making it, some do a better job removing it from the blood. Same with lead or any other harmful substance - some bodies are better at removing it from the blood than are others. If you don't believe that, look at the differeing reactions to alcohol across individuals! Why do some smoke all their lives and never get lung cancer or stroke while others come down with lung cancer having never smoked?

Pat, we know that all of the heavy metals are bad for us, especially for developing children. It's not just lead.

[swheeler]

With the depeleting ozone layer just think of it as radiation shielding! Casters-reloaders-shooters will be the only people left in 50 years!
What a wonderful world it will be.

[ron brooks]

A question. If lead is so bad for us, how did folks get along so long with lead paint, lead water pipes and leaded gasoline, lead pencils, etc... I'm am NOt suggestiong that we all go out and eat lead pain chips and start chewing on lead bullets as the latest nervous habit, but heck, people use to even eat and drink off of pewter plates and cups. Seems to me I see more "damaged" children now than then. Is lead just one of the vouge boogeymen?

Thoughts?

Ron

[PatMarlin]

With the depeleting ozone layer just think of it as radiation shielding! Casters-reloaders-shooters will be the only people left in 50 years!
What a wonderful world it will be.


LOL... :mrgreen:

[Wayne Smith]

A question. If lead is so bad for us, how did folks get along so long with lead paint, lead water pipes and leaded gasoline, lead pencils, etc... I'm am NOt suggestiong that we all go out and eat lead pain chips and start chewing on lead bullets as the latest nervous habit, but heck, people use to even eat and drink off of pewter plates and cups. Seems to me I see more "damaged" children now than then. Is lead just one of the vouge boogeymen?

Thoughts?

Ron

And the average life expectancy was what, 40 years? That's not to say people didn't live longer, just more died early. Infant/child mortality was approaching, I think, 30%. I don't have the research in front of me at the moment.

[ron brooks]

Wayne,

True, but alot of that had to do with deaths due to WWII, either from actual combat, colleteral damage, or lack of food and medicines due to the break down of the supply chain.

Ron

[robertbank]

When the University of Alberta team uncovered the frozen bodies of the lost Franklin expedition they did tissue samples on the bodies. All had extremely high levels of lead and were indeed suffering from lead poisoning. The British Navy at the time sealed their tin goods with lead solder and tea at one time was packaged in lead packaging. Their tin drinking cups were also soldered with lead. My Grand-dad used to melt the bags down to make bullets for my .41LC.

Both Canada and the US began setting standards for food preparations around the turn of the century because of some questionable practices of food processors at the time, like putting salt in sugar bags, coke in Coke. The latter worked great for developing customer loyalty!

Take Care

Bob

[ron brooks]

coke in Coke. The latter worked great for developing customer loyalty!

I bet it did!! Puts new meanintg t the slogan, "Have a Coke and a smile" doesn't it. :)

Ron

[D.Mack]

I believe one of thier original ad sayings was "the pause that refreshes" well I bet it did. DM

[arkypete]

I believe one of thier original ad sayings was "the pause that refreshes" well I bet it did. DM


Actually you are confused that quote "the pause that refreshes" is what you saw in the men's room. :-D
Jim

PS
I remember the Coke ad also.

[Wayne Smith]

Wayne,

True, but alot of that had to do with deaths due to WWII, either from actual combat, colleteral damage, or lack of food and medicines due to the break down of the supply chain.

Ron

Gentlemen, I'm speaking from Roman times (introduction of lead water pipes) to relatively modern times. There is research suggesting that the Polio scare of the 40's-50's was as likely caused by lead poisoning as a virus. Symptoms of lead poisoning are found in the literature as far back as Roman liturature. I'm no MD or biochemist but can tell you that the results of specific heavy metal poisoning are well known and some are gereral to the class of heavy metals and some specific to the metal. There is no question that heavy metals cause a spectrum of disorders that cause developmental disorders in children and early death in adults.

Granted, there are multiple causes for the decrease in infant/child mortality in western countries, but the control of heavy metal exposure is part of it.

[PatMarlin]

One of these days, I'm going to buy some test strips.

I'm gonna test the coffee mugs from china, that I drink my coffee from every day.

I'm gonna swab the handles on the presses, and other items around the bench (all just for the heck of it).

Plates in the kitchen too. What if there was one thing like your coffee mug, leaching lead? I'm sure the inspectors in china wouldn't allow such a thing to happen... :mrgreen:

[David R]

OK, so what ARE the symptoms of lead poisening?

David

[PatMarlin]

I went and ordered a test kit cause more than anything, I want to check our ceramic dishes.

Found this David:

THE FACTS ABOUT LEAD POISONING




Lead is practically everywhere in today's environment. It enters our bodies from many sources including defective glazes (pottery), drinking water, contaminated soil, airborne particulate, leaded gasoline, paint and several other sources. Symptoms of lead poisoning are stomach pains, constipation, diarrhea, aggressiveness, anxiousness, hyperactivity, muscle pain, weakness, weight loss, learning disabilities, convulsions and eventual death with chronic lead poisoning! Lead poisoning victims usually become anemic. This symptoms usually persist for about 2 weeks from time of exposure, then settle into the organs, bones and even hair! We still do not know the long term effects of lead exposure!




These symptoms are sometimes overlooked by doctors and are not properly diagnosed as lead poisoning, since they are vague.




The Centers for Disease Control considers lead to be the greatest environmental health risk to children as their immune systems are still in the developmental stages!

[David R]

Thank you pat

David

[georgeld]

Yes, thank you Pat.

The only two things I see in that list that don't pertain to me is: I'm not dead yet, and sure as hell not anemic.

Last spring the VA doc was testing my blood every month to make sure I was taking the dope she was prescribing and not selling/trading it for sex or something. I requested they test for lead while at it. Don't recall the exact numbers but, mine was one number less than the max. Have been thinking about having it tested again the next blood draw.

I've read in the past that lead accumulates in your system and never can be reduced. What some of you guys have said is contrary to that. I'm curious about it all now and will try to ask her next appt.

Another interesting thread.

[Ricochet]

It's not true that it can never be eliminated. It can be reduced by chelation treatment with EDTA. I'm sure there's a slow natural elimination process, but I'm not that familiar with it. Lead shows up in hair.

[versifier]

That's if you have any hair. [smilie=1: :mrgreen:

[imashooter2]

LOL! It's a rare man that doesn't have hair. Not all of it grows on heads...

[walltube]

let's get focused on a problem far more serious than some niggling amount of lead in our blood stream, organs, hair, etc.

FIY, there is a gigantic hole in the South Pole's ozone layer!

According to the Algoreian School of Scientific Bovinal Studies we all gonna die of massive amounts of Gamma ray exposure. Real soon. And our Silver Stream Brethren now living in N.Z. and Oz are gonna get it first. BIG TIME!! Lead is our only chance for survival!!!

MSN news gave me the heads-up on this. Wouldn't be no MSN without Big Al Ya know:)


Now sipping the Purple Sack liquid as an extra-preventative measure [smilie=s:

W'tube

[floodgate]

walltube:

Actually, the latest I have heard is that - after the Freons and other CFC's (?) were banned some twenty years back, the ozone layer "hole" over the South Pole seems to have been filling back in.

So, maybe THAT ban was worth-while; but the jury's still out on it. And many of the others are pure nonsense. I believe that active volcanoes put out enormous amounts of CO2, but no-one seems to comment on that. Volcano filters, anyone?

floodgate

[grumpy one]

Doug, the last I heard the volcanoes put out vast quantities of sulphur dioxide, which has a reverse greenhouse effect, so the volcanoes are actually helping the problem. See, we should all try to learn to love acid rain.

[Patrick L]

What's the highest lead exposer for cast booliteers is case tumbling. Do NOT do it in the house, and make sure it's handled properly.


Please elaborate ? I'm not aware of this one.

BTW, I take basic precautions (fresh air vent, don't eat, drink, wipe nose etc while casting) and wash THOROUGHLY after a session, plus clothes straight into the wash. I had lead levels checked about 10 yrs ago, and the doc said I was lower than the typical guy on the street (didn't say the number though.)

[Four Fingers of Death]

Lead styphinate was used in the primers. The dust is very noxious (or was). Mick.

[grumpy one]

Lead styphinate was used in the primers. The dust is very noxious (or was). Mick.


Surely the problem is even worse, then, when we scrape the residue out of primer pockets.

[walltube]

I agree with your doubts. What alleged role CFC refrigerants play(ed) in destroying the ozone layer have too many voices with too many conflicting arguments to gain any serious attention from me.

Volcano eruptions?? Who monitered Mt. Pinatubo's blow-up for airborne emmisions? :)

Hair sampling for heavy metal presence in mammals can give a history and degree of contamination. Both hair and blood samples have in the past revealed organic arsenic, cadmium and lead in my bod. 90% of this was traced to fossil fueled power generation boilers. The other 10% from various petrochemical refineries, copper smelters and steel mills. Rendering WW,s and casting boolits as a hobby pose a far less threat to my health than my former occupation. Tinsel Fairies are another subject.

W'tube

[FISH4BUGS]

It was 8 ( I guess that is low - certainly within the acceptable range). I had my annual physical a few months ago and asked the Doc to check my lead level in my blood. He was surprised that I had asked and wondered why I would want to. I explained that I cast bullets and melt down wheel weights. We talked a few minutes about the process of scrounging, smelting, alloying, collecting H&G moulds, bullet casting, lubing and sizing. When I got to the part about reloading for handguns and loading for and shooting submachineguns, he REALLLY got interested. He said we should go shooting sometime.........I will - I might make another full auto convert.
At any rate, the danger is not from casting, it is from your hands. Every time I take a break, I wash my hands thoroughly. The earlier advice of don't touch your eyes, nose or mouth when casting is right on the money.
Watch those fumes when smelting - THAT can be nasty stuff. I always do it outside in the driveway. Fortunately the nearest house is 300 yards away so no one complains. Now I have to worry about putting too much lead weight on those 150 year old barn floor joists! Wouldn't THAT be a kick in the pants - the floor collapses into the basement because of MY hobby!

[robertbank]

On the issue of the ozone hole. Latest studies don't seem to indicate the hole is closing:

Antarctic ozone hole biggest yet: U.S. government

Updated Fri. Oct. 20 2006 9:11 AM ET
Associated Press
WASHINGTON -- year's Antarctic ozone hole is the biggest ever, U.S. government scientists said Thursday.

The so-called hole is a region where there is severe depletion of the layer of ozone - a form of oxygen - in the upper atmosphere that protects life on Earth by blocking ultraviolet rays from the sun.

Scientists say human-produced gases such as bromine and chlorine damage the layer causing the hole. That is the reason many compounds such as spray-can propellants have been banned in recent years.

"From September 21 to 30, the average area of the ozone hole was the largest ever observed, at 10.6 million square miles (27.4 million square kilometres)," said Paul Newman, atmospheric scientist at NASA's Goddard Space Flight Center. That is larger than the area of North America.

In addition, satellite measurements observed a low reading of 85 Dobson units of ozone on Oct. 8. That is down from a thickness of 300 Dobson units in July.

The ozone hole is considered to be the area with total column ozone below 220 Dobson Units. A reading of 100 Dobson Units means that if all the ozone in the air above a point were brought down to sea-level pressure and cooled to freezing it would form a layer one centimetre thick. A reading of 250 Dobson Units translates to a layer about 2.5 centimetres thick.

In a critical layer of air about 12 to 20 kilometres above the surface, the measurement was only 1.2 Dobson units, down from 125 in July.

"These numbers mean the ozone is virtually gone in this layer of the atmosphere," said David Hofmann, director of the Global Monitoring Division at the National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration's Earth System Research Laboratory. "The depleted layer has an unusual vertical extent this year, so it appears that the 2006 ozone hole will go down as a record-setter."

The size and thickness of the ozone hole varies from year to year, becoming larger when temperatures are lower.

Because of international agreements banning ozone-depleting substances, researchers calculated that these chemicals peaked in Antarctica in 2001 and have been declining. However, many of them have extremely long lifetimes once released into the air.

While there are year-to-year variations, scientists expect a slow recovery of the ozone layer by the year 2065.