30-06 subsonic load?

[megafatcat]

Looking for 30-06 loading data using a 120gr plain base. To hopefully take a few squirrel/rabbit while hunting without a whole lotta noise or vaporizing the target.
Help please?

[oldhickory]

I happen to be working on something close to what you're looking for right now. I got the basic loading data from, "Pet Loads" by Ken Waters in a chapter on "gallery" cartridges.

I've been experimenting with 2 LEE molds, 90301 for .32 S&W Long, a round nose, plain base weighing 100 gr. The other, 90362, a flat nose gas check design for the .32WCF weighing 117gr. with gc and lube. And 2 Lyman/Ideal molds, a 311410, 130gr. for the M1 Carbine and an old Ideal 308241, 150gr rn. Both of which are plain base.

Small charges of Unique and Red Dot are used with a tuft of Dacron to hold the charges against the primers. So far the most accurate is 3.5 gr. of Red Dot with the Lyman 311410 130gr. boolit, grouping less than 3/4" @ 25yds and with a report right around that of a .22rf. Groups are about 4" below P.O.A.

I didn't chrony anything yet, but I'm guessing velocity runs about 800-900fps for 3.5gr of Red Dot with the 100gr. boolit from the data in "Pet Loads".

My interest isn't quite the same as your squirrel hunting, I need an accurate, quiet, thumper for larger pests, (coon, possum, skunk, etc) for around my out-buildings up to 50yds. My boolit of choice is the Lee 90362 flat nose which I need to work a little more with, accuracy-wise to get around 1/2" at 25yds. I started with a Winchester M70 FWT .308 but found the noise level to be more than what I wanted before switching to my Mauser .30/06 with a 26" bbl. I'm not sure if it's the longer barrel or the larger cartridge case, but 3.5gr. of Red Dot and a 117-130gr. boolit sound like less than a .22 when fired between the house and stable.

Gallery loads for the .30/06 aren't anything new, and I'm sure some-one here has more experiance with them than I do, but small charges of fast burning pistol/shotgun powders seem to work well for me so far, Red Dot in particular. I'll keep you posted on my progress.

[megafatcat]

Thank you for the info! That is about what I was looking for.
The loading is actually for my son. I used to load his nef .223 With load data from a NRA handbook. The book cannot be found after moving, and he has moved up to a Rem 760.
That NRA book had some great reduced loads, my lyman only goes down to 1600fps or so with a 120gr.

Any further help will be appreciated from all. Thank you old hickoryy !

[Larry Gibson]

I shoot lots of Lee 90 gr SWCs out of my '06s over 3.2 gr Bullseye for 800-900 fps (depending on the barrel) for excellent accuracy. I can in crease it to 4 gr and push 1050 fps but that's a little more than I wanted. Suggest you try Bullesy.

Larry Gibson

[NickSS]

I have used the Lyman 31108 115 gr FN in bothe the 30-30 and 30-06 for small game hunting. I loaded the 30-30 with 5 gr of red dot and the 30-06 with 6.5 gr of the same powder. They sound like a HV 22 RF and have just about zero recoil. Accuracy at 100 yards is between 1.5 and 2 moa for both rifles. I have used these loads to take innumerable small game and varmints. The last animal I shot was a coyote at about 80 yards with my 30-30. I like the load for its low noise level and relatively high power.

[Jack Stanley]

It was a long time ago that I was using light bullets and loads in a sporting rifle . Mine was a Remington chambered in .308 Winchester and I was using a H&G number 67 with sixteen and a half grains of IMR 4198 . I did use Red Dot as well as round ball loads back then but I don't remember the loads for either . The nice thing about the 4198 loads was it was not position or temperature sensitive and did not need a filler .


Recently , I've been loading reduced loads for the two two three Remington . Fifty-five grain cast bullets with three point six grains of Bullseye using a pistol primer to light the fire . About fifty yards is all it's got before it drops but then , I'm using it in a open sight rifle a scope would make hits farther out a bit easier .

Jack

[oldhickory]

I tried a few loads today consisting of 3.5gr. of Red Dot with the Ideal 308241, 150gr pb round nose. Accuracy was good, the first shot about an inch above a nice 1/2" clover leaf. Noise level was acceptable, but penetration with the 150gr. boolit is quite a bit more that what I'm looking for. I'll reserve these boolits for the range and stick with the 2 light-weight .32 boolits from the LEE molds, the 90362 flat point .32WCF boolit in particular. That should give good kills on pests and not over penetrate.

[oldhickory]

On the LEE .32WCF flat point boolit sized to .310, (from .314) in the .30/06 with 3.5gr. of Red Dot. The first group I shot with this load went just shy of an inch, on switching primers, the last 2 groups fired at 25yds from a bipod average 5/8 inch. Drop from point of aim is 3 inches, (on used 50ft. slow fire .22 match targets, 12 O'clock hold-6 O'clock groups) noise level seems exceptable to most of the animals, ( one exception being an old Border Collie who hides at the sight of a gun anyway).

I still didn't Chrony this load, but I'm guessing it's around 800fps at the muzzle. With the 117gr. flat point boolit, it should dispatch pests weighing up to 20 or so lb nicely at short ranges.

[megafatcat]

Great loads. I like the idea of a no-filler load, as I have never used a filler and have heard warnings. Would a magnum primer help with ignition, perhaps with the flash hole opened up a bit on dedicated brass?
I have Unique, varget, h4895, sr4759, longshot and 800x with me(I am traveling at work.) I will get another powder if needed.
Any other suggestions?

[oldhickory]

While I don't use a filler, I do place a small tuft of dacron poly fill,(about the size of a pencel erasor when balled-up) in the case after adding powder. I don't see a need for magnum primers, or opening up flash holes, I'm just using some old Remington brass I found last week in a box.

Unique, 800X, or about any fast pistol/shotgun powder would work for sub-sonic gallery loads. For mid-level .30 rifle loads I've always used IMR4227 and boolits of 150-200gr. with very good results. For hunting loads with cast where desired velocity with a heavy boolit is 1800-2400fps. Varget or H4895 would be good choices. I do use IMR4831 with boolits in my M1 though.

Probably 4-5gr. of Unique would be a good starting place with a 120gr. boolit in your 06'. 800X would be a little slow, I think.

[lylejb]

unique would be the best choice of the powders you listed.

the 10 gr unique load has been a staple for a long time, but is heavier than I think you want.

Might also look at trailboss powder. It's fast, and bulky, to better fill cases. It's made for reduced cast loads for cowboy action shooting.

[390ish]

i load trail boss at 10.6 grains and a lard covered sierra 170 grain 30-30 bullet for a friend's suppressed 30-06. makes good smack on impact.

[oldhickory]

An update on my 3.5gr load of Red Dot;

While it does prove quiet and accurate at 25yds, (sub 1" groups-3"drop) with a .310 sized 117gr. .32WCF boolit fired from my .30/06. 25yds. seem to be it's useful limit, the boolit drops 14"+ at 50yds and groups open up to 3+ inches. The 100gr. .32S&W long boolit with the same charge drops around 11" at 50yds and groups remain 2.5-3". Okay for back yard plinking, but not so good for poping varmints out to 50yds. No sign of boolit yaw, but it looks like tragectory and accuracy limit it's usefulness to 25yds.

[Larry Gibson]

oldhickory

I'm not trying to be critical but helpful so bear with me.......

You might not see "the need" but if you are only getting 3"+ groups at 50 yards "the need" is there. Assuming you are casting "good" quality bullets and your rifle is accurate you should get 1 -2" ten shot groups at 50 yards. I get that with Lee's TL314-90-SWC, Hornady .32 swaged lead 90 gr SWC and Spear 98 gr HBWC bullets and have "popped" lots of varmints out to 75 - 100 yards with them out of my .30 and .31 cal CF rifles.

Cast your bullets soft; a 50/50 WW/lead alloy will work well. If you are using a push through sizer push them through base first to keep the bases square. A very light coating of LLA is all the lube required.

Use well fire formed, NS'd and dedicated cases. Drill the flash holes out with a #30 - 28 size drill. This really does help ignition consistency and allieviates the case headspace from shortening.

Use 3.2 gr of Bullseye powder. With the cases above ignition wil;l be very consistent and no filler or wad is needed what so ever.

Velocity will be 800 - 900 fps and accuracy will be as good as it gets. On my '06s with scopes I use duplex reticle scopes. I can adjust the power of the scope (I use three 3x9s and one 4x12) with their j bullet zero's so the tip of the bottom duplex post gives a 50 yard zero.

I have tried a lot of combinations, including yours with Red Dot, and found the load using Bulleye is the path to success with such loads. If I want any more velocity out of such a light weight bullet in the '06 I go to a GC'd bullet. However, I shoot thousands of the Bullseye load (2.7, 3 or 3.2 gr depending on case volume) under the Lee 90 gr SWC with complete success in the 7.62x39, the 30-30, my .308 CBC, the .308W, .the '06, the .303, the 7.62x54R, and the 7.65 Argentine. You should be able to do the same with your '06 and those bullets you are using.

Larry Gibson

[oldhickory]

Looks like good advice, Larry. My alloy has been the same as what I cast my heavy .30 boolits from, in other words too hard? The boolits are both from LEE molds, their 117gr, flat nose .32WCF and the 100gr. round nose for the .32 S&W long. I would like to use the .32WCF flat nose for it's better terminal preformance, another mold I've been thinking about is the Ideal 308241, a 150gr. plain base round nose.

Well, I got plenty of Bulls Eye and fire formed cases, I just need to cast some softer boolits. I'll give it a shot-or several.:Fire:

Oh, the rifle is plenty accurate with cast, around 1 inch groups off the bench at 100yds. with Lyman 311332 boolits and 23gr. of IMR4227.

Thanks for the help!:)

[rockrat]

I used to use a boolit for the 30 mauser, 93gr IIRC, with about 3gr bullseye. Fairly quiet and was accurate to 50 yds. This was in my '06, sized .310"