New SRH - 454 or 460 Brass?

[101VooDoo]

Finally broke down and ordered a SRH in 454 Casull. Never cared for the target gray, but the new version in satin stainless wore me down.

Having never loaded for the 454, my question is should I buy 460 brass and trim it down to get the large primer pockets, or just buy the 454 brass and not worry about it.

The 460 brass seems to run about twice what the 454 does, but since I can shoot .45 Colt in the SRH, I don't think I'm going to need a whole hell of a lot of the big brass anyways.

Jim

[Bullshop]

The idea of the small primer pockets in the 454 brass was to put more brass around the primer thus making a stronger case.
Why would you want to go to the large pocket?
Original 454 ammo loaded in 45 Colt cases and using a triplex load of smokless powder used steel inserts to reduce large pockets to small, also to increase the strength of the brass.
Somewhere I may still have some of those steel inserts kicking around.
Most folks here wont know but some will that Dick Casull was blowing up Colt SAA frames in developing the 454 way back in 55 same time Elmer was pushing the 44 mag.
Its only been in the last 20 years or so that it got its own case and revolver from Freedom Arms.

[Whitworth]

The idea of the small primer pockets in the 454 brass was to put more brass around the primer thus making a stronger case.
Why would you want to go to the large pocket?
Original 454 ammo loaded in 45 Colt cases and using a triplex load of smokless powder used steel inserts to reduce large pockets to small, also to increase the strength of the brass.
Somewhere I may still have some of those steel inserts kicking around.
Most folks here wont know but some will that Dick Casull was blowing up Colt SAA frames in developing the 454 way back in 55 same time Elmer was pushing the 44 mag.
Its only been in the last 20 years or so that it got its own case and revolver from Freedom Arms.

Actually, it's been 27 years.......

For reduced loads, I prefer using a large pistol primer. But that's just me.

[Bullshop]

My how time flies!

[44man]

My how time flies!
Please don't tell me about time! :twisted:
.460 brass costs too much and it is work to cut down. I have been opening the pockets on .454 brass with very good results and testing to max pressure with a Fed 155 primer shows no problems at all. Not even a flat primer. I took them to 55,000 psi, maybe a little more by going over max.
It allows accuracy to be found with starting loads of 296 and H110 and working up. You can not work loads with the SR primer so you need to load these powders to the max load.

[44man]

By the way, I even tried the Fed 150 primer and all charges lit off but accuracy was better with the 155.
Yes, one of the softest primers can withstand a LOT of pressure and pockets have not expanded.
I feel Dick was working way over gun and brass limits in his days of testing and is why he chose the SR primer.
With common sense loads today, the SR primer is a thorn in the sides of hand loaders.

[buck1]

Others have had some issues with the .454. But for me its been great. -0- squibs and great groups with #9 and Remington small rifle primers.

[runfiverun]

large primer pockets were available in casull brass for a while.
everything dick does is high pressure.
his 45 acp loads require 22lb or higher springs.

[500bfrman]

i have never had a problem with 454 brass.

[44man]

i have never had a problem with 454 brass.
True, you will not with faster powder but the slower ball powders need loaded to max.
We were looking to work loads and starting loads of 296 would blow unburned powder and the boolit into the bore. Confused at first until we found the SR primer had force but not enough heat. Can't have any airspace with the powder.

[Bullshop]

The one load I developed for the Freedom arms revolver with the Freedom arms brass with sr pocket never gave any trouble. The load is CCI srm, 25gn H110/400gn bullshop boolit.
Velocity from a 6" barrel is 1350 fps. Basically what I was after is to duplicate original 45/70 performance in the revolver. I dont know what kind of pressure it is but that was as far as I wanted to go. A very accurate powerful load.
The whole reason for my acquiring a Freedon 454 and developing this load was due to and experiance with a bear on Kuyu island when I was a timber faller in S.E. Alaska

[101VooDoo]

Thanks for the advice, think I'll grab a 100 Starline 454s at Cabelas and give them a shot.

Jim

[44man]

The one load I developed for the Freedom arms revolver with the Freedom arms brass with sr pocket never gave any trouble. The load is CCI srm, 25gn H110/400gn bullshop boolit.
Velocity from a 6" barrel is 1350 fps. Basically what I was after is to duplicate original 45/70 performance in the revolver. I dont know what kind of pressure it is but that was as far as I wanted to go. A very accurate powerful load.
The whole reason for my acquiring a Freedon 454 and developing this load was due to and experiance with a bear on Kuyu island when I was a timber faller in S.E. Alaska
That's good, the heavy boolit and the charge is OK. Your velocity range is also perfect. I don't see any animal standing hit with it.

[Bullshop]

Of course the velocity range is perfect, its been proven by the 45/70 for about 140 years.

[dpaqu]

Funny, benchrest shooters are moving toward small primers and large short case designs. You can buy .308 With SR primers thanks to F-class shooters looking to lower there SD into the single digits

[doghawg]

If there's anything wrong with a small rifle primer pocket in the .454 I've never found it to be a problem. This with the RCBS 270 SAA at 1200 fps shot at 70 yards from a sit with my back to a tree and arms between the knees....about as good as I can shoot from hunting positions.
I load 231 under 250 gr. Noslers, Power Pistol under 255 Lee's, Blue Dot or 2400 under 270 SAA's, 2400 under 300 gr. gas checks, and occasionally full house 296 loads under 300 gr. XTP mags....out of two separate Mod 83's...with either Rem 7 1/2 or WSR and if there's a problem I'm not sharp enough to detect it.

[44man]

If there's anything wrong with a small rifle primer pocket in the .454 I've never found it to be a problem. This with the RCBS 270 SAA at 1200 fps shot at 70 yards from a sit with my back to a tree and arms between the knees....about as good as I can shoot from hunting positions.
I load 231 under 250 gr. Noslers, Power Pistol under 255 Lee's, Blue Dot or 2400 under 270 SAA's, 2400 under 300 gr. gas checks, and occasionally full house 296 loads under 300 gr. XTP mags....out of two separate Mod 83's...with either Rem 7 1/2 or WSR and if there's a problem I'm not sharp enough to detect it.
You are correct, they are no problem when loaded the way you do. It was only starting loads of 296. The LP primer allows downloading a little. We got better accuracy just under max loads with cast boolits. Trying to work loads for accuracy had me come up to the house for a brass rod and hammer to remove stuck boolits. When I got to max and just over, the problem went away, but groups opened over what we got with the LP mag primer.
The other powders you use are just fine.
I still see no reason why they just don't go to a LP pocket.

[44man]

Funny, benchrest shooters are moving toward small primers and large short case designs. You can buy .308 With SR primers thanks to F-class shooters looking to lower there SD into the single digits
Two different animals! A revolver is not a rifle. Not only are powders different but the bullet does not jump into a throat or forcing cone. Now add in the shoulder of a bottle neck to retard powder movement.
Even a single shot pistol is different then the revolver with a straight wall case.
The problem with the .454 in the revolver when less then a full charge of 296 or H110 is used is that the primer pressure pushes the powder away from the heat and moves the bullet out of the brass, increasing the air space, damping out the fire of the little primer. It is amazing how much pressure a SR has.

[dpaqu]

OK if your stuck with the Small riffle primer what one should you use? I know some primers are hotter than others? right?

[bobthenailer]

allthough a little off topic ! i use federal standard small pistol primers #100 in my 454 casull brass with tight group powder with a charge between 8 .0 and 10.0 with 260 gr and 275 grain cast bullets , with excellent accuracy in the 1000 to 1200 fps range.
for top end loads i use rem 7 1/2 br primer as recommend by dick casull

[500bfrman]

i always used cci

[101VooDoo]

Anyone use Magtech 7 1/2s? I've got a few thousand I bought during the primer shortage.

Only thing I've used them in yet was .32 H&R.

Jim

[Frank]

I can see the frustration. It's a lot of work to have to make primer pockets. What for? So you can shoot a .454 slower, or make a cast boolit work with the caliber? Why buy a boomer if you have to make compromises?

On the other hand, trying for 1/2" groups at 50 yds can be evasive, time consuming and frustrating. Maybe a day carving out large primer pockets or investing in the other brass may be well worth it.

I would say do both. You can have batches of both types as needed.

[RobS]

The Large primer does have its advantages as been stated and will enable more flexibility in reloading for the 454 Casull. If a person is going to make LP 454 Casull brass it'll be some work............worth it...........yes, in my opinion.

Of course you can push 1300+ fps (mid to upper loads) with the slower ball powders, but if you don’t want to………….this is another option. I also had better all around accuracy even using the quicker burning powders with a LP primer.

Here is the thread that missionary5155, 44man & et al. posted detailing the process of working the small pockets into large. http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?t=92064&highlight=small+primer+pocket+large

I used a drill press on all my cases and once I found a routine I could convert 100 cases in a bit over an hour. I haven't done the cut down on 460 brass, but could see it taking some time too.

[101VooDoo]

Thanks for the inputs, I did see the thread on opening the pockets up, that's what got me thinking about it.

The SRH arrived, man its a beast! Barely squeezes into the Ruger box. The satin stainless really looks sharp.

I've been thinking that I might just split the difference, and load some Ruger-only loads in .45 Colt brass to bridge the mid-range. My only other .45 Colt is a Black Hawk, so I wouldn't have to worry about the loads ending up in too light a gun. That way I've got brass with LP pockets and the Casull brass for heavier loads.

Jim