Making big bucks selling bullets

[MOUNTAIN MIKE]

Hello;just a quick question.

I plan on making big bucks selling cast bullets but i have one problem.
I use 3 or 4 differt lee molds and the weight of mold says 300grs but using pure lead i get 308grs, 309grs., 310grs. How do i label these to sell? Do i weigh all of the 308grs and sell together,etc. Do i just throw them all together and let buyers weight them.
I do need some constructive help on this. I am "between jobs" right now.

Thanks,mountain mike

[Rocky Raab]

It has been said that the way to make a small fortune in bullet casting is to begin with a large fortune.

Label them as 300 grains - and hope they sell.

(You are aware that you have to have an Ammunition Manufacturer's License from the BATFE plus heavy liability insurance to make and sell bullets, are you not?)

[MOUNTAIN MIKE]

tHANKS,bUDDY.

I THINK I WILL ONLY MAKE LEAD MUZZLELOADING BULLETS.

m.mIKE

[Bullshop]

Mike
Ad to your weight description the phrase, " depending on alloy".
All molds will drop boolits of varying weights, DEPENDING ON ALLOY.
That's what I do. Still working on that small fortune, and it seems to get smaller all the time.

[HeavyMetal]

Being between jobs sucks!

Havng an unwanted visit from the BATF Really sucks!

Suggest you do serious research on the aspect of licinse before you take in a dime.

The city you live in will want a piece of the action as well and you will need to have a close relationship with the state tax collector as well.

Years ago I thought about this and realized I may do something like this when I retire but as a subsitute for a full time job no way!

Hope you find something soon!

[WILCO]

I plan on making big bucks selling cast bullets....


Do the research of such endeavors, develop a business plan and then put it into action. Check this link out: http://www.business.gov/industries/self-employed/

[fredj338]

I played that game for awhile, you can't make "big $$" unless you are getting alloy for free. Average the weights & mark them as such. You'll make more money IMO working @ Walmart.

[bhn22]

Don't forget to get your manufacturers license. Which class FFL is that again?

[deltaenterprizes]

06 ffl

[runfiverun]

plus the excise tax on what is made not sold.
iirc it's 10% it's the same tax thats paid on guns and all other related products.
your big bucks is possible you just need to make and sell a couple of million boolits a year.

[Dannix]

You'll make more money IMO working @ Walmart.
Quoted for truth. It will likely require some ego checking, but that's good anyway.

Another alternative is go back to school and get a grad degree. But this assumes you have the savings to do so.

[deltaenterprizes]

No excise tax on boolits.

[Scratch]

Buy this book first: http://www.magmaengineering.com/products/handbook-of-commercial-bullet-casting

[WILCO]

You can make money if you plan it well and work hard. But that seems to be for chumps under the new "regime"......

[fredj338]

You can make money if you plan it well and work hard. But that seems to be for chumps under the new "regime"......
I think you can make some money, just not a lot. Tough to compete w/ machine casting doing it by hand unless you go w/ oddball calibers or bullet shapes that no one else offers; ie, HP or heavy FP.

[Papa Jack]

I'm sure if you apply for a stimulus to start a small business, "Bam Bam" will send the $$$$$$$$$$$$$$ and your problems will all be over....
Just think of all the fancy automated casting machines you could have, all running 24-7, and digital automated weighing machines that sort out the boolets , automated packaging, all you'd have to do is count the money.

ORRRRR

On the other hand, you could simply pocket the money , out source the casting operation to China or India and all you'd have to do is unload the truck when it comes from the dock and send the orders out to the customers.... Simple.

"Papa Jack".....[smilie=f:

[x101airborne]

haha haha haha. When you find your small fortune, send my savings from reloading to me. they should be together in the same bar singing this'll be the day that i die. haha haha haha

[Tazman1602]

First off I hope you're not a troll MM.....if not welcome to the forum!

Second, you absolutely, positively CANNOT sell cast bullets legally without a valid manufacturing FFL and registration with ITAR to pay their tax.

I know it's stupid but we've been all over this here, no offense intended man.

I could make some cash on the side in my area also selling my cast stuff and I am an FFL dealer but don't want to mess with BATFE. I *know* some of those guys at gun shows with cast bullets in the little ziplock bags have cast their own and are selling them but man if BATFE ever gets ticked at you..............'nuff said.

............and I *think* I've read a couple of stories of guys who just about went bankrupt attempting to cast bullets for a living also, you might want to search the threads.

Art


Hello;just a quick question.

I plan on making big bucks selling cast bullets but i have one problem.
I use 3 or 4 differt lee molds and the weight of mold says 300grs but using pure lead i get 308grs, 309grs., 310grs. How do i label these to sell? Do i weigh all of the 308grs and sell together,etc. Do i just throw them all together and let buyers weight them.
I do need some constructive help on this. I am "between jobs" right now.

Thanks,mountain mike

[Dan Cash]

Hello;just a quick question.

I plan on making big bucks selling cast bullets but i have one problem.
I use 3 or 4 differt lee molds and the weight of mold says 300grs but using pure lead i get 308grs, 309grs., 310grs. How do i label these to sell? Do i weigh all of the 308grs and sell together,etc. Do i just throw them all together and let buyers weight them.
I do need some constructive help on this. I am "between jobs" right now.

Thanks,mountain mike

Mike,
These oother fellows have given good advice on the casting business. A fine company called Bull-X of Farmersville, IL went under for an assortment of reasons. I don't know what you do or did for a living but you need to investigate the oil patch for work. We are "suffering" with about 3% unemployment in ND, low taxes and lots of freedom although there are those leftists who are trying to take it all away. Perhaps a move is in your future as you surely will find work in North Dakota.
Dan

[cajun shooter]

I wish you the best but your posting tells me that you will lose money not make it. You can not start out with a few Lee molds and make a killing by casting lead bullets. Several hundred in my lifetime including myself have tried. You have to have equipment that will put out production or your boat will not float. Don't mean to burst your bubble but trying to save you some heartache and disapointment.

[Bret4207]

Hello;just a quick question.

I plan on making big bucks selling cast bullets...

Hahahhahhahahhahahahahahaahhahhahahahhahaaaahhhhah aahaa!!!!! Oh man that's a good one, "big bucks selling cast bullets". Oh man, what a riot! :bigsmyl2:

[casterofboolits]

Hello;just a quick question.

I plan on making big bucks selling cast bullets but i have one problem.
I use 3 or 4 differt lee molds and the weight of mold says 300grs but using pure lead i get 308grs, 309grs., 310grs. How do i label these to sell? Do i weigh all of the 308grs and sell together,etc. Do i just throw them all together and let buyers weight them.
I do need some constructive help on this. I am "between jobs" right now.

Thanks,mountain mike

Add me to the list of guys that took a shot at making that fortune by casting and selling boolits. Didn't get there.

Pay attention to the advice all the guys have outlined. Also, don't forget the State Sales License and the records needed for the state. In addition, having an income may affect your unenployment benifits.

I had a source of free range lead from cleaning out my clubs indoor range. Lead was cheap at the time I was casting. I once had a thousand pounds of monotype delivered for $225.00 from a local recycling yard. A buddy brought me 3,000 pounds of lead machine weights for free.

A few Lee moulds won't do the job either. That's what I started with and also bought a few NEI moulds too. Aluminum just do not hold up for large prodution. My six cavity NEI for 200 grain SWC's lasted for about 8,000 boolits. YMMV.

I ended up with eight cavity H&G #68 moulds (three of them @ $250.00 ea.). Basicly, the majority of the money I took in ended up being spent on moulds, lubsizers, more moulds, etc.

Also three Magma Master Casters, moulds for them and a Magma Lube Master.

Thinking your're just going to cast a few styles and weights won't last either. When I started, my plan was to cast only 45 200 SWCs and 225 RN's. My intended market were IPSC shooters. A friend said "that won't last" and he was correct. Shooters want what they want!

Muzzel loading boolits may be a good niche for you to get in to as that is where your expertise is. Just determine where your market is. Local shooters? Mail orders (a whole new problem)? Just beware of the pitfalls. Good luck!

[mpmarty]

First thing to do is write to the BATFE and get a WRITTEN statement from them that you do or do not need a class 6 or some other federal license to make and sell projectiles intended for fixed ammunition. Otherwise you're just whistling in the dark as you walk past the graveyard.

[Shiloh]

It has been said that the way to make a small fortune in bullet casting is to begin with a large fortune.

Label them as 300 grains - and hope they sell.

(You are aware that you have to have an Ammunition Manufacturer's License from the BATFE plus heavy liability insurance to make and sell bullets, are you not?)

There was a thread about this some time ago. You need a license from BATF, a business license from your state, and possible a zoning waver if you are casting at home. Personal use is one thing. A business could be something else entirely.


Don't forget to get your manufacturers license. Which class FFL is that again?

Yep, see above. These are humorless people best left undealt with.


Being between jobs sucks!

Havng an unwanted visit from the BATF Really sucks!

Suggest you do serious research on the aspect of licinse before you take in a dime.

The city you live in will want a piece of the action as well and you will need to have a close relationship with the state tax collector as well.

Years ago I thought about this and realized I may do something like this when I retire but as a subsitute for a full time job no way!

Hope you find something soon!

Find a part time job somewhere. You will be money ahead and frustration behind.

Shiloh

[MOUNTAIN MIKE]

Thanks for all the info. I better rethink all this.


Again,thanks

mountain mike

[BLTsandwedge]

Just one more note to add....the gents responding so far have been discussing the operational aspects of a business such as the one you are contemplating. Some have touched on market segment. But perhaps the greatest challenge is in sales- married with accounting. I've been a sales and marketing exec for 24 years and I'm still learning every day. There's this thing called the internet that has changed the way Americans do business. If you don't have a thorough understanding of what Google adwords are, how they work and their analytics through Google Analytics, and ultimately things called 'organic searches' and 'content optimization,' you'll be hobbled even if your operation is technically profitable. And that's just the tip of the iceberg. You'll fail if you rely on direct consumer sales- you'll need to engage in business to business accounts and the discounting/account management/accounting and invoicing that goes along with it- not to mention the travel required to establish B to B accounts that will serve as your outlets.

But what the hell? It'll cost a fortune to get going....but the learning experience will set you up to try again- perhaps in a different line. You can't be afraid of failure if you want to be your own boss. Affordable money is the key- if you can't 'cocktail napkin' a plan to generate revenue beyond your most significant expenses (including your salary), that dog won't hunt.

Tom

[Roundnoser]

I know I'm gonna regret this, but...what about guys who sell bullets to shooting buddies to cover thier own shooting costs? Its not like bullet casting in most cases, is a livelihood or a business operation. -- If a few of my friends ask me to cast bullets for them to save them a few bucks, and I (in turn) make a few bucks to buy a new mold or some other personal reloading item, am I really breaking the law by not having an FFL?!

Its one thing if you are in business for a livelihood...to make profits...Selling bullets in the marketplace. It has to be something all together different if it is occassionally done amongst friends...more for the joy of it.

Any opinions? Any one with a good contact at the NRA who might shed some light on the differences (if any) between bullet-making as a formal business and casual deals between friends / associates, etc.?:confused:

[lwknight]

What happens in the cave , stays in the cave.

[TonyM]

It has been said that the way to make a small fortune in bullet casting is to begin with a large fortune.

Label them as 300 grains - and hope they sell.

(You are aware that you have to have an Ammunition Manufacturer's License from the BATFE plus heavy liability insurance to make and sell bullets, are you not?)

That is funny right there.... and then sad.... because it's true... :popcorn:

[fredj338]

I know I'm gonna regret this, but...what about guys who sell bullets to shooting buddies to cover thier own shooting costs? Its not like bullet casting in most cases, is a livelihood or a business operation. -- If a few of my friends ask me to cast bullets for them to save them a few bucks, and I (in turn) make a few bucks to buy a new mold or some other personal reloading item, am I really breaking the law by not having an FFL?!

Its one thing if you are in business for a livelihood...to make profits...Selling bullets in the marketplace. It has to be something all together different if it is occassionally done amongst friends...more for the joy of it.

Any opinions? Any one with a good contact at the NRA who might shed some light on the differences (if any) between bullet-making as a formal business and casual deals between friends / associates, etc.?:confused:
Yes, you are probably breaking some laws. Like a garage sale, all income is supposed to be reported to the govt. Bartering is considered engaging in bus by the Feds or even most local govt. It's unfortunate but true, the govt is far to deep in all our lives. So best to only deal with your buddy's & keep it low key.

[Roundnoser]

Got this info off of another forum (PAFAO). I underlined the parts that could be interpreted in different ways...

Quote:
18 USC § 923. Licensing
(a) No person shall engage in the business of importing, manufacturing, or dealing in firearms, or importing or manufacturing ammunition, until he has filed an application with and received a license to do so from the Attorney General. The application shall be in such form and contain only that information necessary to determine eligibility for licensing as the Attorney General shall by regulation prescribe and shall include a photograph and fingerprints of the applicant. Each applicant shall pay a fee for obtaining such a license, a separate fee being required for each place in which the applicant is to do business, as follows:
(1) If the applicant is a manufacturer—
(A) of destructive devices, ammunition for destructive devices or armor piercing ammunition, a fee of $1,000 per year;
(B) of firearms other than destructive devices, a fee of $50 per year; or
(C) of ammunition for firearms, other than ammunition for destructive devices or armor piercing ammunition, a fee of $10 per year.

Quote:
18 USC § 921. Definitions
(a) As used in this chapter

(10) The term “manufacturer” means any person engaged in the business of manufacturing firearms or ammunition for purposes of sale or distribution; and the term “licensed manufacturer” means any such person licensed under the provisions of this chapter.

(17)(A) The term “ammunition” means ammunition or cartridge cases, primers, bullets, or propellent powder designed for use in any firearm.

(21) The term “engaged in the business” means—
(B) as applied to a manufacturer of ammunition, a person who devotes time, attention, and labor to manufacturing ammunition as a regular course of trade or business with the principal objective of livelihood and profit through the sale or distribution of the ammunition manufactured;

The issue will be if your part time efforts constitute "engaged in business".

[462]

Roundnoser,
Key word in all that is "ammunition". Selling "bullets" is another matter, but still regulated.

As mentioned, this topic has been covered. A member (think his name is Freakshow), was a commercial caster and cited the relevant BATF&E laws. A site search should find the thread.

[semtav]

So a $10 fee should cover it.

Interesting interp tho, is if you just sold a bunch of bullets to a friend, but don't do it on a regular basis for profit, you are exempt.

[Shiloh]

What happens in the cave , stays in the cave.

Sage advice.

Keep a lid on it. ;)



Shiloh

[fourdollarbill]

If anybody is interested I attached a file derived from the US Code title 18 that covers every question you could possibly have about the legalities of making and selling bullets.

Pay attention to the definition of a bullet.

Included are the Definition, Acts, Licensing, Penalties.

These are pulled sectionals that only have to do with that topic. In other words they are pulled sectionals as they were intended to be read as designed by the USC admin.

[Dale53]

The previous posts are a reflection of the present day "sad state of affairs".

About thirty years ago, I shot IPSC (to the tune of 15,000 rounds per year for five years). I belonged to a club that ran IPSC Matches (I was the Co-Match Director). I soon learned, that many shooters needed a ready supply of bullets. I was working full time with a family. Money was tight (as well as time). I decided to cast bullets for friends. There were no regulations, at the time, regarding the making and selling of bullets. So, I gradually got into the bullet business as a small, part time, effort. When time presented itself, I cast for others. I got a decent price for the product, got the bullet metal free (or nearly free) and made a decent amount. This helped, no end, with IPSC shooting expenses.

However, eventually, the time and effort became TOO MUCH. I had a disabled friend who wanted to enter the market, so the time was ripe for me to step aside.

I enjoyed the process, made a decent amount of "side money" (used the exact same moulds and pots I was already using). However, I would NEVER do it in this climate of ridiculous Federal Regulations. The money is minor, bullet metal is drying up, and I definitely would NOT want to try it without a license. All you would need is some nasty minded person to "drop a dime" on you and you could face a prison sentence.

Just a thought or two of ANOTHER freedom we have lost...

Dale53

[462]

Thanks, $4.
"Bullets" are "ammunition".

[Roundnoser]

Dale53, you make a very good point, albiet a pathetically sad one! I think the government lumps us little guys in (on purpose) with big industry. Casting a few thousand lead bullets a year for your shootin buddies is NOT the same as manufacturing millions of rounds of high performance, jacketed, rifle and pistol heads! -- The government has their hands in every aspect of our lives,...from birth to death...a nanny state! Stay out of my life, and out of my pockets I say!

[Daryl]

Good discussion here with lots of input from many angles. I got my regular FFL and just added on the $30 for 3 years for ammo manufacturer at the same. time. Simple, cheap, no problems. My license and business is under a Corporation - and, properly established, financed, and operated any liability issues stay with it and keep you fairly safe from the suit-happy ones trying to get on the bandwagon. But, it has to be done right to be effective. Fortunately, I know this end and have studied it for over 20 years - so that part is routine for me to do but costly if you have to pay a lawyer. Most zoning permits "home based businesses" without an issue. My suggestion is to get a copy of your local zoning text (usually just $5 or $10) and study it yourself. Don't ask anyone anything until you read it and really have specific questions about how it is applied - it is easy for local officials and inspectors to just say no to something they don't like or understand. In Ohio, Townships don't generally require a "business" license to do business from your home. You do need the Vendor's license to collect sales tax but that's just a $10 one time fee that no one approves or anything - you just pay and get it.

Best one I read, though, was about North Dakota - I think I'd like to live there and get a job!!

Any business has lots of discouraging details. But, I'd rather be in my shop doing fun stuff making some money than somewhere else unless I made alot more money. But, I'm not letting my "day job" go anytime soon, either!

Good luck.

[crabo]

Best one I read, though, was about North Dakota - I think I'd like to live there and get a job!!


I enjoy the summers there and if it wasn't for January, Febuary, and March, I would try to move there myself. My wife is from Grand Forks, and they have a family farm. Great hunting and fishing, but those 3 months.....

[Evil Dog]

Thanks, $4.
"Bullets" are "ammunition".

If muzzleloaders are considered "non-firearms" by the feds, would their projectiles be considered "non-ammunition"?

[garym1a2]

I can buy cast .45acp bullets all day for about 2.50 -3.00 per lb. If you have a good supply of scrap lead you can sell lead ignots online for about $1 per pound and not worry about the goverment regulations. It's very easy to cast 1 lb Ignots and sell them. Find a good supply of scrap electronics solder and you can make better money.
You won't get rich off selling lead, but not much labor is involved and the return on your time will be better.

[fourdollarbill]

If muzzleloaders are considered "non-firearms" by the feds, would their projectiles be considered "non-ammunition"? Wow that one really is a stumper! I would have no idea. You would probably have to start with the USC code on muzzleloaders if they have one. Definitions first or you'll be confused.

[testhop]

you probley make more at macdonnals.
in casting bollets you are working for coolie wages.
but if you do it you might add fishing weights too .