43 Beaumont loads

[meister mash]

Ok So I have a 71/88 Beaumont rifle in good shape. I have already made cases to fit from 50/90 star line brass, so that part I have a handle on. Now, help me not blow my self up.:smile: I'm thinking that the 43 beaumont has more capacity then the 45/70 right? The reason I ask is, I want to use Trail Boss for a powder. I went on the IMR powder site and it appears that they have a load listed for the 45/70 and a 400 grain bullet. I will be using a 350 grain bullet for my 43B loads. The max load listed for the 400gr 45/70 loads is 16grain. Now, if I load 16gr or under, of Trail Boss in the Beaumont cases with a 350 grain bullet, is that reasonable? Even at 16gr? The data is for trapdoors.

[Andy_P]

Take Starline 50-90 brass
- trim to 2.100"
- anneal
- size down in an 8mm Lebel F/L die
- neck with 45 Colt sizer
- trim to 2.040"

Your logic is the same I used. I took 32.0 grs of H4198 and a 310gr cast bullet sized to 0.454" (groove size) to an OAL of 2.490". Gave me 1530 fps - a nice mild Springfield Trapdoor load at about 18K psi. With Trail Boss, I'd start at 12 grs and work up to about 1250 fps.

The brass is now fireformed to the chamber, and not surprisingly for these old girls, the chamber is very "generous" - almost no neck. Next time I will cut the case longer to end up at 2.100" +/- to get a bit more neck to size.

L to R - 11x52R Beaumont, 50-90 Sharps


http://www.pridham.ca/11x52_Beaumont_and_50_90_Sharps.jpg

[meister mash]

Thanks for the good read on case forming for them. I had a reamer made and made my own set of dies. So I have the cases. I don't however, have a 45-70 to measure for capacity. Then I could compare the difference for a load. 32 gr of 4198 is what cartridges of the world has for their data. I would think that the beaumont should have a hair more room but don't really know for sure.

[Andy_P]

The capacity of the 45-70 will vary by brass manufacturer, between about 73.0 and 78.0 grs of water full to the top. The Beaumount round is the same length, but quite a bit fatter so it's obviously larger. Having the same bore size, you can use 45-70 Trapdoor loads and be assured that the pressure produced is lower than it would be in a 45-70. Use those loads and work up to the published Trapdoor MV's (and 50-100 fps more if you want, but why would you?), and you'll be golden.

[meister mash]

Thank you sir, suspected as much. I have a nice Beaumont and don't want to damage it or me. I've loaded and reloaded for a long time but get nervous when the books don't have the exact recipe.
http://i625.photobucket.com/albums/tt333/meistermash/IMG_0097.jpg
http://i625.photobucket.com/albums/tt333/meistermash/IMG_0091.jpg

[Buckshot]

..............I'm the proud owner of a Belgium Comblain made for a Brazilian contract of 1874 for an artillery carbine.

http://www.fototime.com/535CAD58FA0F4C2/standard.jpghttp://www.fototime.com/4A280AA9B475B9D/standard.jpg

It's a dropping block action with an external hammer. But in the right photo you see the hammer is located within a shroud that is neatly dovetailed into the rear of the breechblock.

The cartidge designation was 11x42R, which didn't really tell me what it LOOKED like other then being a bit shortish :-) Info on the Comblains is not 'concise' for lack of a better word, but the little carbine was fascinating, excruciatingly well made (those old gunmakers were magic) and I WAS going to shoot it.

http://www.fototime.com/4F95A9FDBEFB342/standard.jpg

A chamber cast. NO NECK! As you can see, there is no neck in this chamber cast. It is a straight taper from the rim, to a definate point. From this point it angles sharply down to the bore. The case ID at the end of the taper is .493" and the groove of the barrel is .464" there at the chamber. The land diameter is .433". At the muzzle the groove is .454" so the groove depth is progressive, with the lands remaining .433". Odd for a BPC rifle of this era is the fact that the twist is a very fast 16".

http://www.fototime.com/55AAE3BF9DE99A7/standard.jpg

First VERY crude cobbled cases. I won't go into the whole gut wrenching story as it seemed I used most the dies I owned, in addition to quite a few plumbing tools also! The parent case I used was the Mag-Tech (CBC) 32ga brass shotgun shells. They provided close ot the called for OD and didn't cost the moon. At the time only Berdan primed cases were available, and the #56 berdan primer used was pure trash so I converted them to use 209 primers.

http://www.fototime.com/FEB48295FDD2804/standard.jpghttp://www.fototime.com/7C6776752B29618/standard.jpg

LEFT PHOTO I cobbled up a FL size die, and seating die via some ho-made boring tools, and also a shell holder. The dies themselves are pieces of hard chromed strut rods from a '87 Chevy Celebrity. RIGHT PHOTO The parent case, cut to length, and then sized in the die. Naturally once fired the case loses it's neck.

http://www.fototime.com/FB833F810B2C0FE/standard.jpg

A couple of cases that had been previously sized via the hammer and tongs method, but then sized in the new size die. The label paper is used to help center the case in the chamber. While the 32ga shells are close to the correct OD they still lack a bit. They'll expand but the tape makes the expansion even all around. Once they've been fired a couple times the adhesive labels are no longer needed. I undertsand the 50-90 case is better yet, but they're NOT $22/25!

http://www.fototime.com/8F2D7613C6820E4/standard.jpg

These were the very first 4 targets shot with the Comblain. All were 10 shot groups at 50 yards. The load using Blue Dot is only 7 shots as 3 were used to get the carbine on paper. It really liked the load of SR4759! The boolit was the Lyman 457191, 292gr FNPB for all loads. When you consider that these 4 groups were fired with 40 of the first very crudely mangled brass with all 40 varying in details such as case length, neck length, neck tension, shoulder OD, and most anything else you can think of it amazing ANY hit the paper let alone grouped!

..............Buckshot

[meister mash]

That's neeter than canned beer buckshot. Maybe later, I'll take some pictures of my 2 Vetterli's. Old guns rock.:grin:

[sray]

I had bought some of the 32 gauge brass shot shells to makeup ammo for my Beaumont and found that they appear to be some sort of an balloon head case. I have since used the 50/90 for making brass because it is a solid head. Is the 32 gauge brass construction something to consider in loading for the Beaumont?

[Buckshot]

I had bought some of the 32 gauge brass shot shells to makeup ammo for my Beaumont and found that they appear to be some sort of an balloon head case. I have since used the 50/90 for making brass because it is a solid head. Is the 32 gauge brass construction something to consider in loading for the Beaumont?

..............I use the 32 ga for the Comblain and the 24 ga for my .577 Sniders. No issues, no problems. Folks have been converting the full length 24 ga cases into 577-450's for quite some time also. The new (well, past couple of years) CBC/Mag-Tech brass hulls have taken large rifle primers. I bought a BUNCH of the old Berdan primed cases when Graf was clearenceing them out for a pittance.

It's simple to convert them to the 209 primer and I don't load them for either rifle beyond the 209's ability to contain the pressure. Before boxer 8x56R was available I'd also converted 100 of those to the 209 primer. However in that use it wasn't too long before pressures were beginning to cause pierced primers.

.................Buckshot

[Dutchman]

11.3x50R Dutch Beaumont

http://www.eddydebeaumont.nl/Beaumont%20rifle.htm
http://www.militaryrifles.com/Holland/Beaumont.htm
http://www.militaryrifles.com/Holland/BmontVit.htm


11.15x60R Mauser

11.15x58R Spanish

7.62x62 Springfield

Dutchx58 rimless

[VSchneider]

I know this is an old thread but I just bought one of thes rifles at a gunshow with a beautiful bore. It came with one box of Bertrum brass and the original bayonet.
Anyway I started doing some research on this rifle and cartidge and I find that most people are forming brass from either the 50-90 (which has an undersize head diameter) or the 32 ga shotgun brass (which has an undersize rim). My question is has anyone tried the 500 Nitro Express case? I have some and from what I can tell both the rim and head diameters are spot on!The only thing that I see is that the rim thickness is about .015" thinner on the Nitro brass.
If no one has tried it then as soon as my C&H dies get here I will take a couple of the cases and try forming them and firing them and see what happens. One way or another I will let you know what happens!!
Van

[meister mash]

What in gods name does a box of 500 nitro cases cost? lol
I'll bet you are the first one to try it.

[VSchneider]

LOL not sure what it goes for, but since I've got some I figure it's worth a try!
Van

[bob208]

seams like 348 winchester would be cheaper. 348 is 50-110 necked down. i have used it to make .50-70

[Ecramer]

Not the .43, of course, but I bought 20 rounds of 11.7X42R from Buffalo Arms, and it was made from .348.

[mikeym1a]

The 4th edition of the Handloaders Manual of Cartridge Conversions lists one load for the .43 Beaumont, which is 31gr of 4198 with a 400gr boolit for a MV of 1430FPS. I presume that is a max load. That is on page 331. I know that is not the answer to your question, but is a starting place. mikey

[enfield]

My data shows 13 gr max of TB for 45/70. I still think that's plenty. just from what I read about TB being a bit pressure spikey. probly some better powders to start with, like 4759, 5744 etc.