Lee C430-310-RF, too hard?

[chickenstripe]

removed from wet phone books set-up at 50yds, 18" of penetration

Not sure the velocity, but I was pushing them with 17.5gr of 2400 (new) out of a 7.5" barrel.

Would you consider these too hard for whitetail?

[pdawg_shooter]

Nope.

[44man]

removed from wet phone books set-up at 50yds, 18" of penetration

Not sure the velocity, but I was pushing them with 17.5gr of 2400 (new) out of a 7.5" barrel.

Would you consider these too hard for whitetail?
No. I use 21.5 gr of 296, Felix lube and a Fed 150 primer for deer. I get around 33" of penetration in wet phone books from about 30 feet from the stack.
The .44 needs no expansion at all at the velocities they are shot.
I have killed a ton of deer with the .44 with boolits even as hard as 25 BHN. I mostly use WD WW's at about 22 BHN.
Your load is in the velocity range, Mine are a little over 1300 fps.
50 yards will reduce the penetration on paper but a deer will never know the difference! GO HUNTING. :bigsmyl2:
I would say you have a fine setup.

[Moonie]

Keep in mind, when hunting with hard cast boolits it is best to aim to break shoulders. With my .445 SM using 350gr boolits I always aimed for the offside shoulder.

[chickenstripe]

This boolit is accurate.
The harder I pushed it, the smaller the groups got. Strated with 12.5gr and 12" groups at 50yds and at 17.5gr I was getting 1.5" at 50yds, and hitting bowling pins off-hand at 100yds with the open sights 4 out of 6........ and sometimes better.

Forgot to mention it was ACWW, 311gr "launch" weight, sized 0.430, Hornady GC, Lee Alox lube.

[44man]

Keep in mind, when hunting with hard cast boolits it is best to aim to break shoulders. With my .445 SM using 350gr boolits I always aimed for the offside shoulder.
It does help but the .44 has always worked with lung shots only. The .445 is faster but with the 350 gr boolit, if it is between 1300 and 1400 fps, it will also work fine.
The two calibers I have that work on deer to perfection with just double lung shots are the .44 and .475. Other calibers do need a little expansion.
I will never be done testing but it has proven to be baffling. A hard WLN or WFN driven over 1600 fps has less effect on a deer then one at 1160 fps, does less internal damage and can result in lost deer. The slower boolit kills but the deer will walk away or lie down and die. The faster boolit has deer go much farther, as far as 200 yards with a much poorer blood trail.
At around 1350 fps, blood trails have been huge with deer going 30 to 40 yards at the most.
Each and every deer is different as we all know so I am trying to come up with an average.
But I have found it is wrong to look for the highest velocity you can make your gun shoot.
It really is hard to improve on the .44 mag! [smilie=s: Heavier and larger diameter boolits DO work better but I feel the velocity range should still be met.
Take a .41, .44, .45-70, .475, .500 JRH, .500 Linebaugh and .500 S&W, all with the same shape and hardness boolits at the exact same velocities but with heavier weight boolits at around 1350 fps and the larger calibers are MUCH better.
No matter, I can't ever look down my nose at a .44. I just love the thing! :bigsmyl2:

[donjose]

Hopefully this season I will be able to test this exact same data on these small Oklahoma deer.


Jason

[Frank]

Hey, how come these topics don't get posted in the Hunting with CB's' section? I don't mind reading it. Just curious. :)

[44man]

Hey, how come these topics don't get posted in the Hunting with CB's' section? I don't mind reading it. Just curious. :)
Revolver section of CAST BOOLITS I guess. Does good in either or both places.

[GabbyM]

It does help but the .44 has always worked with lung shots only. The .445 is faster but with the 350 gr boolit, if it is between 1300 and 1400 fps, it will also work fine.
The two calibers I have that work on deer to perfection with just double lung shots are the .44 and .475. Other calibers do need a little expansion.
I will never be done testing but it has proven to be baffling. A hard WLN or WFN driven over 1600 fps has less effect on a deer then one at 1160 fps, does less internal damage and can result in lost deer. The slower boolit kills but the deer will walk away or lie down and die. The faster boolit has deer go much farther, as far as 200 yards with a much poorer blood trail.
At around 1350 fps, blood trails have been huge with deer going 30 to 40 yards at the most.
Each and every deer is different as we all know so I am trying to come up with an average.
But I have found it is wrong to look for the highest velocity you can make your gun shoot.
It really is hard to improve on the .44 mag! [smilie=s: Heavier and larger diameter boolits DO work better but I feel the velocity range should still be met.
Take a .41, .44, .45-70, .475, .500 JRH, .500 Linebaugh and .500 S&W, all with the same shape and hardness boolits at the exact same velocities but with heavier weight boolits at around 1350 fps and the larger calibers are MUCH better.
No matter, I can't ever look down my nose at a .44. I just love the thing! :bigsmyl2:


I’m sure you’ve read the studies concerning duration of impact. Mostly surrounding the impact of shotgun buck shot which is strung out in a line at distance or the rapid repeated impact of full auto 9mm SMG type guns. Basically it came down to the duration causing greater shock to the nervous system.

I load standard weight bullets that expand in my 44 but that’s just me.

[44man]

I’m sure you’ve read the studies concerning duration of impact. Mostly surrounding the impact of shotgun buck shot which is strung out in a line at distance or the rapid repeated impact of full auto 9mm SMG type guns. Basically it came down to the duration causing greater shock to the nervous system.

I load standard weight bullets that expand in my 44 but that’s just me.
That's fine. I just want two holes so if an expanding boolit does that, it is good. I don't want one that opens so fast it stops inside. We don't have the shock of a rifle. I shot too many deer that hardly reacted to the hit and did not run. Others ran like crazy and piled up fast.
I also do not want one that goes through so fast it does no damage.
Even the revolver can destroy so much meat it is hard to believe or fail. Find what works.

[Murphy]

Hopefully this season I will be able to test this exact same data on these small Oklahoma deer.


Jason

What part of Oklahoma? I'm down in the S.E. corner here...Broken Bow/Idabel area.

Our deer from up in the 'hills' average between 80-100 Lbs field dressed. Anything over 150 field dressed is considered huge.

Murphy

[44man]

I shoot a lot of young deer for meat, I won't turn down a button buck or a yearling doe, we have too many deer here.
I have seen monster bucks in Ohio that went 420# with tracks in the firm ground that measured 5-1/2" to 6" long. I never shot one but they were there. One was hit by a truck south of Columbus, 18 points and 420# dressed.
The .44 would work for either if the boolit has weight and is either hard or expands just a little. Besides, the .44 has killed almost every animal on earth too, it is just a great gun.
A softer boolit with weight also works but I just have too much trouble with accuracy.
For a jacketed I will not use the 240 XTP but the 300 gr is great. There are some 240's that do not expand as fast also.
I am a firm believer in actually seeing what your boolit does in many animals instead of reading energy figures or gun rags. Only you can determine if the boolit will be used again and again with confidence.
For a beginner, I always recommend the .44 over smaller calibers. With experience, the .475 REALLY thumps animals and I expect the .500's hit harder.
Just GO HUNTING and then see what you would do to improve results, if anything.