Mica or talc?

[Longwood]

I see that ground soapstone (talc) is very similar to Mica but many times cheaper. Have any of you tried it in place of Mica?
LS

[geargnasher]

For what?

Gear

[Longwood]

Case neck lubing and controlling the sticky when using liquid Allox

[geargnasher]

I lube case necks with Alberto V05 Hair Dressing and control the sticky in LLA by mixing it with JPW and thinning it with a splash of mineral spirits. No need for mica or talc.

I lube the inside/outside of bottleneck brass necks by applying the case mouth to the lube pad giving a light twist, that gets just a trace of the lube on the case mouth and the sizer and expander ball spread it out. I usually collet or bushing-size my necks on the outside only, and don't use a lube for that.

Gear

[RP]

I case lube with VO5 for case lubeing works great, After sizeing you can wipe them down with a cleaner to remove any oils or toss into tumbler to remove.

[geargnasher]

I case lube with VO5 for case lubeing works great, After sizeing you can wipe them down with a cleaner to remove any oils or toss into tumbler to remove.

Spread out your finished cartridges on one half of an old towel, sprinkle with Ed's Red or Goo-Gone, fold the towel over, and "shuffle" your ammo between the layers of towel like you would dominoes. Switch to a clean, dry towel, repeat. Shiny and corrosion-proofed ammo in a few seconds!

Gear

[Longwood]

I case lube with VO5 for case lubeing works great, After sizeing you can wipe them down with a cleaner to remove any oils or toss into tumbler to remove.

I don't care for using liquid lube and a pad if I can get away from it. I use mostly carbide dies but sometimes I load for a friends Nagant and other calibers with cheaper dies so I do occasionally use it or a spray lube.
I just bought a Midway neck lubber that uses mica for a dry lube and am shocked at what people want for an ounce of dirt.
Would Graphite also work fin the neck lubber or does it cause problems.
My thoughts were that mica added right after tumble lubing would not only help prevent sticky but add to the slickness of the liquid allox.
Thanks Folks
LS

[steg]

Mica, talc and graphite are all very abrasive, I'd avoid them all, it's like constantly fire lapping your bores imo.........................steg

[luvtn]

Mica, talc and graphite are all very abrasive, I'd avoid them all, it's like constantly fire lapping your bores imo.........................steg
"Moh's Scale of Relative Hardness":

1: Talc (softest)

2: Gypsum

2½: Fingernail

3: Calcite or Copper Penny

4: Fluorite

5: Fluorapatite

5+: Pocket Knife

5½: Window Glass

6: Microcline

6½: Steel File

7: Quartz

8: Topaz

9: Corundum

9-9½: Carborundum

10: Diamond
Please exlpain how talc, graphite, and micah would be abrasive?
luvtn

[Longwood]

Mica, talc and graphite are all very abrasive, I'd avoid them all, it's like constantly fire lapping your bores imo.........................steg

All of them are used as a lubricant or additive to make stuff like grease, paper, paint and plastics slick so it is plenty slick enough for any barrel I own.
I just bought a Midway neck luber that uses Mica, just thought talc would be way cheaper.
LS

[geargnasher]

I lube case necks with Alberto V05 Hair Dressing and control the sticky in LLA by mixing it with JPW and thinning it with a splash of mineral spirits. No need for mica or talc.

I lube the inside/outside of bottleneck brass necks by applying the case mouth to the lube pad giving a light twist, that gets just a trace of the lube on the case mouth and the sizer and expander ball spread it out. I usually collet or bushing-size my necks on the outside only, and don't use a lube for that.

Gear

:popcorn:

Gear

[steg]

Back when I was a machinist we used to machine pressure molds from graphite, and even using a carbide cutting tool, it wold wear out the tool faster than cutting steel, IMO the others would fall into the same catagory

[Longwood]

Back when I was a machinist we used to machine pressure molds from graphite, and even using a carbide cutting tool, it wold wear out the tool faster than cutting steel, IMO the others would fall into the same catagory

The first casting job I ever did was a part for an old lawn tractor and my next job was a set of grips for an old Iver and Johnson pistol. I made that set of molds from a piece of graphite. Fortunately I had access to broken carbide end mills and other tools to do the job with. What a pain!
It was shortly thereafter that I cast my first bullet in some homemade molds I made up for a small cannon I made.

The best polish job I have ever saw in my 50 plus years of working around machine shops, was done using three different grits of polishing compound which was made from diamond dust. As you probably know, it's even harder than powdered graphite powder.
Loren

[x101airborne]

OK, so carborundium powder may not be good for my dies, right? Just want to be sure Im tracking.

[onondaga]

being low on the Moh's scale has nothing to do with how abrasive something is. You can easily scratch your fingernail into a stick of auto body buffing compound. So buffing compound is lower on the Moh's scale than fingernail. Would you use buffing compound for a lubricant? Look at the chemical footprint of talc---
H2Mg3(SiO3)4 or Mg3Si4O10(OH)2. The "Si" stands for silicon, as in sand or glass. Talc is a type of stone and it is used as an abrasive in rock tumbling. It will cut a shine on flint, agate, jasper, quartz and certainly gun barrels

[Bret4207]

Huh. I've been in the habit of dusting my Mule Snot lubed boolits with mica or talc body powders for some time. I've never noticed a difference on bore appearance or wear. Considering the extremely fine nature of the mica, graphite or talc used I wonder just how much wear really occurs. I'm of the opinion that we probably get more wear from errant dust and powder heat and pressure than from talc.

For that matter, our lead alloys certainly contain contaminants of one sort or another, and wear does antimony, a highly abrasive mineral from what I'm told, fit on the MOH scale?

[44man]

Huh. I've been in the habit of dusting my Mule Snot lubed boolits with mica or talc body powders for some time. I've never noticed a difference on bore appearance or wear. Considering the extremely fine nature of the mica, graphite or talc used I wonder just how much wear really occurs. I'm of the opinion that we probably get more wear from errant dust and powder heat and pressure than from talc.

For that matter, our lead alloys certainly contain contaminants of one sort or another, and wear does antimony, a highly abrasive mineral from what I'm told, fit on the MOH scale?
This should be correct, it is grain size. Sandpaper at 80 grit is harsh but the same material at 1200 grit hardly polishes. I have some 2000 grit stuff around here and paper is more abrasive. It was a waste to apply the stuff to paper! Just use the other side. [smilie=l:

[roysha]

The negative aspects of this debate are akin to the argument that using aluminum GCs will ultimately damage a barrel because of the aluminum oxide on the GC. NONSENSE!
There is probably more potential of damage from the primer residue, (ground glass) than from mica, talc, graphite, aluminum oxide as it relates to GCs, or any of the other things that get pushed down the bore when shooting and/or cleaning.
I have shot literally tens of thousands of Motor Mica coated bullets from my 629 S&Ws with no noticeable wear to the barrel.

[GLL]

As a geologist for the past 45 years I find much of this discussion most interesting ! As in humorous ! :) :)

Jerry

[BABore]

Me too

http://www.ballisticproducts.com/prodinfo.asp?number=MICA

[onondaga]

Now, I don't know what to do. I have one acquaintance that refuses to use any lube on his cast .357 Mag bullets. he says that the wax in the lube acts like flux and makes the lead stick in his barrel. He sprays his bullets with high heat resistance black barbecue/stove paint and says his revolver shoots clean and the bullets are certainly not sticky either. I have used powdered cornstarch over LLA because my .458 Mag. cast bullet ammo is hard to get out of my elastic wrist band shell holder with just the LLA on the bullets. I might try the paint. Anybody hear anything bad about that?

[44man]

Now, I don't know what to do. I have one acquaintance that refuses to use any lube on his cast .357 Mag bullets. he says that the wax in the lube acts like flux and makes the lead stick in his barrel. He sprays his bullets with high heat resistance black barbecue/stove paint and says his revolver shoots clean and the bullets are certainly not sticky either. I have used powdered cornstarch over LLA because my .458 Mag. cast bullet ammo is hard to get out of my elastic wrist band shell holder with just the LLA on the bullets. I might try the paint. Anybody hear anything bad about that?
Who knows what the pigment in paint does, or hardeners, etc?
Wax can not act like flux until both the steel and lead are hot enough to solder. I have proved most boolit lubes make good soldering fluxes but you need HEAT. The only reason is that they block oxygen from the metals.
Your friend has other issues not connected to lube.
I vary with LLA because I say it burns and leaves ash, runs out and can contribute to leading. Mainly because the ash can rub off lead and there is not enough lube in the bore. It smokes which means it is burning. Good lube will not smoke. Powder will smoke and residue from the powder should be softened from the lube. Why double residue?

[Char-Gar]

The mica stuff sold as a case lube is worthless for that function. If you bought some for that purpose, you were robbed.

[Bret4207]

Paint as lube? Well, to each their own. Might have your friend try and solder some lead boolit alloy to some steel using bullet lube. I have a tough time getting actual solders and real flux to get a good bond sometimes.

[cbrick]

Ok, it's settled then, NO diamonds in our bullet lube or for case lube. Much too abrasive. [smilie=1:

I have used a lot of mica as a case NK lube and it works well. I have also put mica in bullet lube and could notice no difference good, bad or otherwise.

Rick

[MT Gianni]

I use Talc on my crotch during hot weather and find it's much more of a dry lubricant than an abrasive.

[geargnasher]

TMI!

Gear

[Longwood]

Huh. I've been in the habit of dusting my Mule Snot lubed boolits with mica or talc body powders for some time. I've never noticed a difference on bore appearance or wear. Considering the extremely fine nature of the mica, graphite or talc used I wonder just how much wear really occurs. I'm of the opinion that we probably get more wear from errant dust and powder heat and pressure than from talc.

For that matter, our lead alloys certainly contain contaminants of one sort or another, and wear does antimony, a highly abrasive mineral from what I'm told, fit on the MOH scale?

Thank you.
Looks like I finally got a good answer to my question.

I guess "Polish" is a form of wear. Took me a day and a half of darn hard work to intentionally wear (lap/polish) a barrel once.
LS

[Longwood]

Me too

http://www.ballisticproducts.com/prodinfo.asp?number=MICA

That's far better than some, price wise. I have seen it as high as $8 oz.
Thanks for the link.
LS

[legi0n]

Ok, it's settled then, NO diamonds in our bullet lube or for case lube. Much too abrasive. [smilie=1:

I have used a lot of mica as a case NK lube and it works well. I have also put mica in bullet lube and could notice no difference good, bad or otherwise.

Rick

What to do with all these diamonds then? [smilie=l:

[Suo Gan]

Is there anyone sane out there? I forgot we are all casters! Talc and mica are completely different both in chemical and physical properties...and they are supposed to do the same thing? Yeah, that's what makes the world go round.

[Bret4207]

Define this "sane" word please...

[roysha]

Anyone that tries to apply "sane" to any of the shooters, hunters, reloaders or bullet casters that I'm acquainted with, must be insane!![smilie=l:

[MT Gianni]

Brett, sane is defined as a term a casters wife or significant other would not use to describe them.

[Bret4207]

Brett, sane is defined as a term a casters wife or significant other would not use to describe them.

Ah! So it's like the words smart, good looking, in shape, funny, desirable and sensitive?

[Charlie Two Tracks]

Insanity is defined as doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results. So-- Sanity would be doing different stuff all the time expecting the same results? So if I cast different alloys at different temps and can still shoot the boolits, I should be sane?

[steg]

If nothing else the post provided some good reading and alot of laughs, thought I was going to get tarred and feathered there for a while, wondering how tar would work?..........steg

[Lloyd Smale]

I use graqhite for case necks and if you ditch the crappy alox you wouldnt have to worry about using abrasives to keep it from atracting abrasives.