bp in levers

[bigted]

ok i may be dense and iv been accused of worse but i honestly cant remeber reading about using bp in marlin and winchester lever guns. ive got three levers...[ all 3 marlins [[ 444 and 2 45-70's]] ]. my question is that i know they used the bp in them way long ago and these guns are still with us today. and not only with us but they are not a pile of rust either.

my concerns are twofold here;

first i cant imagin shoving the crud and fouling back down the barrel at cleaning time. it would end up inside the action and that cant be good. but the winchesters are and were kinda dificult to dissasemble to clean from the breech. the marlins are very easy to remove the bolt and lever so this is not a huge concern for me.

second is accuracy with the bp in the levers...i mean do you have to remove the bolt and lever every so many shots to acomplish any kind of accuracy or is there a trick i dont see?

the single shots are easy as they open up the breech every time and running a rod thru them from the breech is an easy thing to do.

can someone enlighten me here about this...im being kinda thick i bet as i am making this more complicated then it needs to be im betting

thanks in advance for the advise and info and kenny...let er blow bubba...lol...cant wait to hear from ya you raskal :popcorn:

also im questioning using the j word boolits as they will not be able to hold boolit lube on their un-naturally shiny and flat surface. [smilie=s:

[NickSS]

Using black powder in lever guns is not a problem at all. I have used it in several pistol caliber rifles as well as in a couple of 38-55s and 45-70s that I have. Load them up like any BP round with flat point bullets and good BP bullet lube and let them fly. As for accuracy, if your bullet holds enough lube you should be able to get off 10 shots or so with reasonable accuracy before wiping the bore. If they do not hold enough lube then all bets are off as to how many shots with good accuracy you will get. Now shooting Jacketed bullets is another thing. They work great and are self cleaning due to the hard jacket they just push fouling out. Now for cleaning as you say the marlin is not a problem to remove the bolt and clean from the breach. I do not do this when shooting a lot of rounds like at a cowboy action shoot. What I do do is turn the rifle upside down so the fouling and other junk falls out of the rifle instead of into the action or I use a bore snake and pull it from the breach to the muzzle. They are very quick to use. I spray the inside of my action with WD 40 at the end of the day after clening the inside of the rifle as much as posible. This keeps any fouling soft and also keeps the metal from rusting as it displaces moisture. About once a year I take my rifles apart for a good cleaning 9usually on a wet and nasty winter day).

[2ndAmendmentNut]

Not a problem, and as others have said accuracy will depend on how much lube your boolits hold. Also the humidity of the air you shoot in. On a humid day you might get of 20~25 shots but on a dry day only 10 or so. When it comes to cleaning I use Ballistol, this is great stuff.

[Maven]

bigted, I use BP in my Marlin #336 .45-70 (Microgroove rifling) and find it to be just as accurate with BP (70 grs. FFg; sometimes FFFg) as it is with smokeless (27 grs. 5744). The trick is finding an accurate bullet with lube grooves large enough to hold a goodly amount of BP lube, and which can be sized to fit your bore(s). The Lee 405 gr. HB bullet is one such example. You'll also need a BP lube and a blow tube, which you insert via the loading gate, to help keep the fouling soft. In the Marlin, using BP lube and a blow tube, I can get 5 - 10 accurate shots before I need to damp patch the bbl. Btw, I clean from the breech (at the range) only after I'm done shooting for the day and don't worry about pushing powder fouling into the chamber at all, as it won't be there long. In fact, cleaning the rifle after BP use is little different (except for the solvent) than cleaning after smokeless and takes about the same amount of time.

[Muddy Creek Sam]

Bore Snakes, I also use a steam shark to good advantage.

Sam :D

[Maven]

+1 on the Bore Snake!

[bigted]

thanks for the info and advise. i really like this site and have started a little notebook on the hints and tricks im learning here. thanks again and keep em coming.

cant wait to begin and im only lacking a couple things now so it will be soon.

[bigted]

Bore Snake....duhhhhh. that is GREAT idea...wonder why my mind doesnt work that way sometimes

[Yellowhouse]

Unless you rinse it out every pass, it seems to me you're just re-introducing crud back into the barrel....think I'll stick with patches.

[McLintock]

I've been shooting a '94 Winchester in 38-55 in Cowboy Action Long Range Lever gun matches for about 4 years now. Have to shoot ten fast shots, 30-40 seconds or so on a good run, at up to 225 yards, no chance to clean or blow tube between shots. Using Swiss 1.5 and the Lyman 375449 with gas check and no wad, I've won many a match shooting against mostly smokeless shooters. Put 42-3 grains of powder, seat the bullet to the canelure and it has the right compression and shoots very accurately. As for cleaning, I use ballistol in a 1 in 10 parts mix with water, and usually 2-3 patches to clean, 1-2 to dry and then a patch with pure ballistol to finish it off. First couple of cleaning patches I don't push them clear through into the action, just till they enter the chamber and then pull them back, just enough to get the throat. The last one with the pure ballistol I push clear through to coat the chamber also. Have started doing 45-70's the same way with a bullet I got off a group buy here on the forum, 400 gr gas check and they shoot real good.
McLintock

[bigted]

thanks gents. really apreciat the replys. qouple questions here.

anyone use the lyman "blackpowder gold" lube on their boolits and if so how does it work?

in swabbing between shots is it advisable to push with a couple patches from the muzzle if a shot cartridge is left in the chamber to catch the fouling majority before the final clean patch goes down the bore? i just thought of this and dont recall reading about someone using this "trick" to keep most of the fouling out of the action.

thanks again and keep em coming.

[Maven]

bigted, Check out the stick lubes that Track of the Wolf offers, especially the Ox-Yoke. Also, search this site or the internet for Emmert's Lube, which you can easily make yourself.

[Muddy Creek Sam]

Unless you rinse it out every pass, it seems to me you're just re-introducing crud back into the barrel....think I'll stick with patches.

Yellowhouse,

I carry several Bore Snakes for each of my lever guns. Works well! Use the steam shark at home. Followed up with several patches of Ballistol. Is nothing to shoot 60 or more BP 38 spl with Big Lube Snake Bite Boolits in a match with a 24" barrel 73 clone.

Sam :D :cbpour:

[Grapeshot]

first i cant imagin shoving the crud and fouling back down the barrel at cleaning time. it would end up inside the action and that cant be good. but the winchesters are and were kinda dificult to dissasemble to clean from the breech. the marlins are very easy to remove the bolt and lever so this is not a huge concern for me.

the single shots are easy as they open up the breech every time and running a rod thru them from the breech is an easy thing to do.

can someone enlighten me here about this...im being kinda thick i bet as i am making this more complicated then it needs to be im betting

[smilie=s:

I shoot both the 1866 and 1873 Winchesters in CAS with Black Powder. I always have a fired .44-40 case to insert into the chamber prior to running a wet patch down the bore. After the bore is cleaned, I take the empty cartridge case out of the chamber and using a couple of bore mops I clean and lube the chamber. Then I run a Bore Snake thru the barrel from breech to muzzle.

I do the same procedure with my 1876 in .45 60. The empty case keeps the crud out of the action. Good Luck.

[w30wcf]

bigted,
I shoot a fair amount of .44-40 black powder cartridges. I have found that when it comes to conventional cast bullets, the type of black powder makes a difference. Swiss B.P. will shoot more shots accurately than any other true b.p. I have tried.

For a bullet that will run longer with any type of b.p., this is it.
http://www.biglube.com/BulletMolds.aspx?ItemID=5357fe2d-b75b-4f72-8f4e-b72d17327741

w30wcf

[John Boy]

Ted, stop and give this some thought ... When is the last time you saw blowback on the rim of your case? I never have. The foul is in the chamber and the bore, plus some smoke that is in the the receiver.

Black powder is best cleaned with hot water. Steam is the hottest you can make it. So buy a hand held steam cleaner, stick the spout in the chamber with the muzzle in a bucket - spray until the barrel is hot to touch. Nearly all the foul will be in the bucket. Run a Bore snake from the breech to the muzzle. Then a spray a mop with Ballistrol or Eezox and oil the bore. Spray some more in the receiver and on the carrier, wipe with a shop mop including the bolt rails and you are done.

I have a '92 Winchester with over 10,000 rounds down the bore and have been cleaning this way the whole time. It has been disassembled twice and I was amazed at the lack of foul in the innards

[cajun shooter]

When I was shooting 45Colt in SASS in my 92's I had no problem with clean up. If you anneal the cases that will help a lot. Spray the receiver down with a large amount of Moose Milk and use a dental pick followed by a few passes with the snake. A few extra steps to have fun with the real powder "PRICELESS"