Need cast bullet for Snubnose .38

[Jim,In]

Just pickup a new S&W 637 snubnose, all my cast bullet are to hard. How can I make the lead softer so they will mushroom out of my snubnose. All my bullet are Lyman #2 or WW. Jim

[.357]

cut your wheel weights either with 1 part pure to 1 part ww or 2 parts pure to 1 part ww. What are you trying to shoot?

[x101airborne]

Off subject, but..... .357, if i heard your signature in public, I would stand with my hand over my heart, head hung in reverence, and personally wave the American Flag behind you. Lord God, let that be my son's first and last prayer to you. Amen. "I may not survive the fight, but it's gonna be pretty embarrassing for them to know one man did this." Major Carslile, Commander US Army 101 Airborne

By the way, make the bullets softer.

[Jim,In]

Using it for my CCW gun and in the house. Now I need to find pure lead.
Thank's Jim

[fredj338]

If it's a solid LSWC, even soft lead won't expand much, maybe deform a little. You'll need to get a HP inot the nose & then go soft alloy to get expansion much under 850fps.

[Matt_G]

Just pickup a new S&W 637 snubnose, all my cast bullet are to hard. How can I make the lead softer so they will mushroom out of my snubnose. All my bullet are Lyman #2 or WW. Jim

I think the most important thing is to slug the barrel and chambers, then make sure the boolit fits the gun.
After you have a good fitting boolit and see how it shoots, then start worrying about the alloy composition/hardness.
Perhaps you have already done this...

[NSP64]

I buy honady HBWC then load them backwards.

[Eagles6]

You might try The Boolit Exchange under Swappin' and Sellin' to see if someone would pour you some soft HPs to see how they work.

[stubert]

I carry a Charter ams bulldog in 44 spec. It is loaded with Lyman devastators, The devastator is also available for 38/357. With the devastator, expansion will NOT be an issue.

[bhn22]

In an Airweight Chiefs Special I think I'd concentrate more on bullet design and not worry about expansion. A moderate full wadcutter load would probably serve you better than a soft cast hollowpoint in such a short barrel. How hot are you planning on loading it anyway? Recoil will be a factor, believe me.

[.357]

Off subject, but..... .357, if i heard your signature in public, I would stand with my hand over my heart, head hung in reverence, and personally wave the American Flag behind you. Lord God, let that be my son's first and last prayer to you. Amen. "I may not survive the fight, but it's gonna be pretty embarrassing for them to know one man did this." Major Carslile, Commander US Army 101 Airborne

By the way, make the bullets softer.

Thank you sir! I cannot take credit for writing the prayer but i do love it!

[HeavyMetal]

should have gotten in on Mihec's38 HBWC mold!

Casts nice and being a hollow based wadcutter it can be loaded upside down on a light charge of Bullseye and still expand

[MT Gianni]

Remember that an in the house gun should not penetrate enough to impact through your neighbors walls. It should also not be used toward any bedroom someone is in.

[DIRT Farmer]

In my mdl 10 2in. bbl, I carry wadcutters, I have used it several times to put down deer, and have never needed it for anything more serious. It worked well, wad cutters leave a good wound channel and I don't think you can expect much expansion at achievable volicitys. The most important fact is to put them where they will do the most good and use several.

[Larry Gibson]

Concur on the WCs. Pure lead WCs, even at their sedate velocity, kill out of proportion to what we expect.

Larry Gibson

[Bret4207]

I often carry a 38 Bodyguard. I wouldn't worry about expansion, it's a iffy thing. The HBWC loaded backwards is about as sure as you'll get.

[Jim,In]

Thank's guys I will look into the HBWC. How do you load than backwards, don't think my loading die are setup for that big hollow point. Jim

[acl864]

+1 on the WC. I load 148 gr. DEWC's at a moderate velocity for carry in my M642. I can hit what I'm aiming at and that's the major consideration for me. I believe accuracy and penetration are more important than expansion at 38 Special velocities.

[Gohon]

For actual carry and home defense I load up with Remington 158-gr. LSWCHP +P 800 fps, which is commonly called the FBI load. For practice and near duplication of this load I load with 158 grain Hornady LSWCHP ahead of 3.5 grains of Bullseye at 814 fps. Just a plain cast 158 grain SWC will work for practice but it doesn't give me the same feel and POI of the Hornady load.

[mdi]

Not to throw stuff on anyone's ideas, but, I used to reload HBWC backwards for my 2" .38. In the early 80s I read an article in one of the gun rags with several pics if wound channels in gel shot from short bbl revolvers. The HBWC would, about 90% of the time, just collapse and not expand, and mebbe tumble, and when shot through a couple layers of clothing the cavity just clogged and acted like a solid. Mine were really inaccurate at over 15 ft., mebbe 8" group, and with this info I changed my tactics and went with a 158 gr. SWC over some Bullseye at about 800 fps. If I was loading it for SD today I might go with one of the 125 gr HP at around 900+ fps (but now my "security" is a 1911 w/230 truncated cone8-)).

[HeavyMetal]

mdi is correct I also saw that article back in the 80's.

I also did some testing of my own and found that the HBWC's that were available commercially really had huge QC issues for diameter and they were extremly soft to boot.

At the time I had 3 J frame snubbies and a Police Positive to work with.

Strangely the PP ate everything I put in it accurately, I figure the tight colt barrel has something to do with this, but the J frame guns were very finicky!

The very early model 36 would shoot most any wadcutter load to point of aim and group decently and didn't care which way they were loaded.

The model 37 was partial to face forward WC's and actually shot better with my RCBS 150 grain SWC's sadly point of aim with this gun was 18 to 20 inch's right an 4 low. Even with factory ammo.

The model 60 pretty much hated everything and didn't care what it was! I've had shotguns group better! Since I could never get this thing to stay on the paper I have no idea about POI / POA.

The owner of the 60 couldn't get it to do any better and admitted to me he bought it and stuck in in his semi for SD without ever shooting it!

A week later the guy showed up on my door step with a Model 10 HB that had a Bo-Mar rib on it. Claimed he made a straight across deal at a gun show for the model 60!

Nice shooting gun and it still sits in the guys semi!

Moral of the story: test each gun with whatever load you plan to use, reload or factory, and never think that they all work or even shoot to POA!

AS for expansion? Worry about that after you know if the load will work!

[Kraschenbirn]

Dunno how well it might work in a 2" but my 3" SP101 (really!) likes a Lyman 358156 over 7.6 grains of (Hercules) Blue Dot. Cast from ACWWs, load chronos at 825 fps from my gun and I can easily keep 5-shot DA strings inside the 10-ring of a PPC silhouette at 10 yds.

Yeah, I know some folks have issues with Alliant Blue Dot but what I'm using is early-90s vintage Hercules and I dunno what I'm gonna do when my supply runs out.

Bill

[excess650]

From a 2" barrel expansion will be "iffy" regardless of what you're shooting. I've used Federal Nyclad 125gr +P or 158gr HP +Ps in my CCW .38. They WILL penetrate a windshield, and even at a 45* angle.

I have a couple of boxes of those PMC "cookie cutters" Ultra Mag? IIRC, they chrono'd ridiculously fast from a S&W 642.

If I were loading my own "home protection" ammo for a 2" 38Spl it might be swaged SWCHPs or a pair of 75gr or 100gr WCs. Instead, I have a 20" 12ga beside the bed with 00 buck.

[Bret4207]

There are lots of horror stories about people blowing the base through a HBWC, etc. The guy is looking for a house load. I'd prefer a 358477 and 5.0 gr Unique myself, but the HBWC loaded forward or backwards is a stopper too.

[Echo]

+1 for a simple wadcutter, H&G #50, Lyman 358495, or whatever, with an appropriate amount of powder. has always been my recommendation for SD from a snubbie.

[StrawHat]

If you are csating your own, consider one of the many double ended wadcutter (DEWC) molds available. Easy to load and a full caliber meplat, no real need for expansion. Like others, I tried the HBWC reversed and found it lacking from my 48s, a 2" and a 3". I switched to DEWC when I stopped buying and started casting.

[XWrench3]

personally, with small, low power guns, like the 38 special, 9mm, and 380, i worry more about penetration than expansion. if the bullet expands, terrific, but getting into and possibly through the vitals is more important to me. you are better off getting the bullet most of the way through a "target" that if the bullet gets in, expands, and stops 2" inside of the "target".

[Shiloh]

Soft lead.

You need something that will mushroom at the reduced velocities from a snubby.
Meister bullets used to have a swaged soft lead HBWC, but they are no longer listed. Some folks have loaded those backwards to use as a massive hollow point.

Shiloh

[gasboffer]

With a 2" bbl in .38 special you are not going to get any appreciable expansion with a swc or hp bullet. Use a round-nose or tc hard bullet. More penetration and more tissue damage.
Pull the trigger five times!

[GabbyM]

If it were me?
I'd load two loads. One full wad cutter load with the classic light charge of fast powder. For 90% of shooting. To have a load that's pleasant to shoot. Then I'd load one of my 150 grain SWC or TCFP bullets with a standard max charge. Not a +P charge of something like HP-38. Then we'd have to see if both loads hit in the same spot. Having the full wad cutters loaded light would allow me to easily identify the light loads. I'd probably have to play around with my #358429 (177 actual weight) and my Lyman 195 grain RN too. I sure would not worry about hollow points or expansion in any 38 Special unless it was cor shooting small game. That big 195 grain RN is said to yaw after impact. But it seams to me that may be simply to much bullet for a snubby. Even if the recoil was managable the sights would probably be off.

[shootingbuff]

Reading the comments here are the reasons I use the the 158LSWCHP+P

If I get expansion- good, if not hopefully some deformation, if not I will get penetration and with the 158 it should have enough wt to penetrate if it does expand; and it will for sure if it doesn't expand. If I were to cast this which I don't I would use 16 or 20:1. Might have to get a Devastator mould or two uhmmmmm. ;-) Other moulds I need first - dang. But it might be moved up to number 4.


sb

[rintinglen]

I recommend that you get a 158 grain mold and have it hollowpointed by Buckshot or one of the other fellows who specialize in such things.
I managed to get in on the 359-640HP from MP Molds in one of the group buys. Should one of these come available, I would snap it up. Loaded hot, say 5 grains Unique, you will have a very close approximation to the old "FBI" (or "Chicago," or "Saint Louis," or "Dade Metro") Load, which was reported as being the best thing going in 38 snubbies.
I have tried the reversed HBWC in years gone by, but I had problems with it tumbling. The original Hydra-Shocks closely resembled the reversed HBWC though, with a central post added to expedite expansion.
I forgo handloads for defense and stick with factory loads. Supposedly, hand loads are the sign of Satan should you get into a shaky shooting. I have never actually heard of a case werein the outcome was swayed by the manufacturer of the bullet being the one who used it, but why take a chance?

[Jim,In]

Again thank's for all your help. I am shooting a Saeco #382 mold 158gr. SWC and I use 5gr. of Unique now. Guess I will just stay with it. Jim

[ghh3rd]

I thought of using home cast handloaded .38's for my carry snub that I also keep by my bedside. However, since being reminded that this is a very litigious society, and that I may be accused of making "man killer" boolits by a prosecuter or in civil court, I decided to load up with factory ammo, as close to what local law enforcement uses as possible. Just food for thought...

Randy

[357shooter]

I use the NOE 168 Keith group buy mould, hollowpoint. It produces 158 HP's. They still have some left: http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?t=91999

I also just bought the same mould as a standard 5 cavity. I liked it so much I wanted to cast more volume, and already this weekend have shot 200. The mould just got here Friday.

Just sayin', it's pretty awesome, and very effective as an FBI load. It's what I carry in my snubnose.

[Good Cheer]

Test results with the old Lyman Hollow base.
Cutting the inside of the hollow with a phillips point made it tear open. The velocity tested was so low that the tear acted like a torn 'chute and jetted the front of the slug side ways. Better partitioning of the lips and a little more speed would probably make four good petals.

http://i791.photobucket.com/albums/yy192/SNARGLEFLERK/snubby1.jpg

http://i791.photobucket.com/albums/yy192/SNARGLEFLERK/snubby2.jpg

[x101airborne]

If I were loading my own "home protection" ammo for a 2" 38Spl it might be swaged SWCHPs or a pair of 75gr or 100gr WCs. Instead, I have a 20" 12ga beside the bed with 00 buck.

Absolutely. handguns are great, no doubt. But my SWAT team did some training and testing using heavy dove #6 shot. After seeing that a standard non insulated wall would reduce that load to annoying shrapnel, it still maintained it's lethality out to 20 feet and was devistatingly incapacitating at 30 feet. (And how big is the largest room in your house? Anyone in the next room?) We had a lot of pistol rounds penetrate SEVERAL layered walls, and an MP5 SMG went clean through 2 brick exterior walls into a neighbors house. (See "woops" accompanied by several small brown piles) Our entry team carries 2 heavy dove followed by 5 00 Buck. We leave the SMG's to the perimiter team.

[DIRT Farmer]

+ 1 on a shotgun for interior use. One of my BILs was on a inter city unit that used AA #9 skeet loads for tenenment use. Davastating at close range and will not hit the baby sleeping in the next room. I have worked sucides where small shot was used and the damage is davastating.