some old molds need input (winchester,bond,ideal)

[leas327]

So the other day I get my shooting clubs newsletter and see that one of the members posts some reloading stuff for sale. There was some powder at a decent price that i want and i saw another thing that piqued my interest. One little line in it says casting equipment molds,lead, furnace, cast boolits $300.

So I call the number and a older sounding lady answers and tells me that she still has the powder and casting stuff. I get directions and head over. When i get there she says the lead is in the garage I see three of the big 100 round linked ammo cans in the garage. i pop open the tops and these are full of lyman/saeco ignots that she says are already mixed with antimoney and tin and are ready to make pistol boolits. I had to hand load them into the truck and a few were marked lino.

She says the rest of the stuff is in the basement I go down and she says to take all of the already cast stuff too. I hauled up 12 large coffee cans of pre made boolits and six small ones.

The she points out the RCBS pro melt furnace that is also part of the deal. And she says the molds are mine too. So I load them in the truck and drive my squating 2500hd home.

In the mold boxes there are 24 molds in all shapes and sizes. A lot of stuff is pretty common and some are all out rusty junk. But there are a few i am curious about. Please help me out I tried to take some pics but i don't have a nice camera. I have tried to research some stuff and everything leads me back to the authority (this site). I have done some searching here and at castpics but some of this stuff drew a blank. Here is a short list of some of the stuff.

Lachmiller 3 cav. 358 160rn cavities in good shape surface rust outside

Modern-Bond 2 cav this mold is interesting because it is a two cav. that is two different boolits. one is a wad cutter and one is round nose
B-358-742 and D-358-582 it is in good shape looks like it was greased for a long storage

Modern-Bond 2cav. A224-525 in good shape also greased

Ideal single cav. that the mold and handles are all one in good shape #258202-120
Ideal single cav. that the mold and handles are all one also in good shape #28-121 S.S.P.

Winchester mold single cav. mold and handles are all one. marked 45 gov. on handle. this mold still had lead in the cavitie when i got it I cracked it open and it is in good shape.

Winchester mold single cav. mold and handles are all one. marked 25-20 on handle it is in good shape too.

I tried to take some pics but they didn't turn out to well.

[BCall]

That Bond A224-525 is a 22 mold 50 gr. If you wanted to sell it, let me know as I would be very interested!

[HORNET]

You got an extremely good deal. The Winchester molds are highly sought after by those darned collectors and bring outrageous prices. There is an antique reloading tool collectors website that could offer lots of information on current values but I think that you have to be a member to actually navigate the site. You could send a P.M. (private message) to Floodgate for info on the site and maybe on the molds. For Reference: if you click on the Castpics link at the bottom of the page, there is a mold reference section that has many of the old catalogs that will allow you to find more info on some of these (like the Modern-Bond listed under Bond)

[crazy mark]

The last 3 digits are the length of the boolit on Bond Moulds if I remember right. I lent Floodgate my Bond Catalogs for his research. Bond made very good moulds as I have many of them. I sent the bond mould pages for cast pics. Mark

[leas327]

I have looked at the bond stuff on castpics. How common do you think it was for them to put two styles in one mold? I still havenn't been able to find much on the winchester and ideal molds yet. I sent Floodgate a pm and am waiting to hear back from him.

[Bent Ramrod]

Your Ideal numbers don't match any reference I have. Could the second one be 285202? That is a standard 7mm roundnose of 120 grains with two lube grooves and a dirt scraper behind the round nose. It was later renumbered to 287202. The "28-121 SSP" might be another 7mm cut specially short or otherwise modified; many of the integral handled Ideal moulds came out before the system of numbering was set up.

The Winchester moulds were for the .45-70 405 gr roundnose (by the picture) and the .25-20 Winchester repeater cartridge. In my experience, Winchester made good moulds, with integrally forged handles and blocks, and cavities cut very close to the actual nominal size of the Winchester barrels. I find them a little fatiguing to use, as the handles are kind of far apart for the size of my hands.

I think all Modern-Bond moulds were two-cavity propositions. Lachmiller Engineering had a fairly extensive line of loading tools and casting equipment. The company was bought out by RCBS, who still offers a modified Lachmiller sizer luber under their own name, but I think they closed out the Lachmiller moulds when they bought out Ohaus, using their designs instead. I used to have a 3 cavity Lachmiller with a copy of the Ideal 311359 cavity which cast very well.

So--what's the story on the "rusty junk?" No telling what could be in there.:mrgreen:

[.357]

hell of a deal! I am jealous!

[crazy mark]

I have looked at the bond stuff on castpics. How common do you think it was for them to put two styles in one mold? I still havenn't been able to find much on the winchester and ideal molds yet. I sent Floodgate a pm and am waiting to hear back from him.

It was a custom order with Bond. I have seen 3 or 4 done this way. I still have a 45 cal 192 & 255 RN mould. I sold the other combos I had. I can't help you with the Winchester moulds however.

[leas327]

Your Ideal numbers don't match any reference I have. Could the second one be 285202? That is a standard 7mm roundnose of 120 grains with two lube grooves and a dirt scraper behind the round nose. ...

So--what's the story on the "rusty junk?" No telling what could be in there.:mrgreen:

You are correct about the mold being 285202 i went out and rechecked. Must of had a moment of dyslexia writing down the info.

The other Ideal has a lot pointier nose than the 285202 and five lube grooves that are about half the thickness of the 285202's lube grooves.

As to the rusty junk. A lot of these molds look great on the inside and are very usable they just have some surface rust on the outside. Some have the cavities well oiled and some are stored with lead still in them. There are a few that look like they were used and left outside in the rain. I will eventually sort through these and sell most of them. I would like to get a better camera and take some pics. My wife has been bugging me for a new one anyways.

If you all want say the word and I will post the entire list. I wrote them all down so I had a list to check against the mold identification stuff on the site. I just want to find out a little more about the molds I new were older so I posted here. Sometime I will start putting them up for sale in the swappin and sellin section.

[old turtle]

If and when you might consider selling any of this molds I would be interested in any Lyman or Ideal molds starting with319. You got a great buy. I am always a day late or a dollar short or both.

[floodgate]

Leas:

Lachmillers I don't know about. They ended up with RCBS, I believe.

You've got the info on the Modern-Bonds, so I won't repeat it, but "mixed" cavities are not unusual with these. They are excellent moulds.

The Ideals were both made in or after 1903, as they have the lock-screw in the LH side to keep the sprue-plate pivot screw from turning; these fixed-block moulds were made through the end of Marlin / Ideal production in 1915, and a few may have been sold by Lyman after they acquired Ideal in 1925, before coming out a year or so later with their interchangeable-block moulds. The #258202-120 is the heavier (the other was 84 grs.) of two RN PB bullets for the 7mm Mauser. The #28-121 S.S.P. is an odd - but not unusual - marking for #285222, a sharp-point, PB for the .28-30 Stevens, available in 7 weights from 91 to 181 grs. Yours, with 4 grease grooves and a "scraper groove" up front, is the 121-gr. version, as marked (there was a flat-nose version, #285221, also in seven weights, all 1 grain lighter). I don't know for sure what the "S.S.P." stands for; possibly "Stevens Sharp Point". This marking is odd, but not uncommon with such "specialty" bullet moulds.

There is no "Blue Book" for pricing these, but they should fall in the $40 - $75 range - a bit more for the Stevens, as .28-30 owners are a bit fanatical.

The Winchesters are the standard type made thru the turn of the century, with capped wood handles in the regular Winchester calibers. They are good moulds; I have had one in .45 Gov't (yours looks like the 405-gr,. RN), and still have one around somewhere for the .25-20.

A good source - in addition to the CASTPICS writeups and charts by me and others- for the Ideal line, would be the 1904 Ideal Handbook No. 16, which represents the "high point" of Ideal moulds, as several were dropped thereafter. The last Marlin issue, No. 26 (1915) adds a few later designs. Both are available in reprint form from <www.cornellpubs.com>.

I'd like to see your full list, and may be able to help on some of these. As "HORNET" says, our old ARTCA (Antique Reloading Tool Collectors Association) website was open to the "public", but the present one <www.antiquereloadingtools.com> - for reasons best known to "management" - is restricted to members only. Membership is a moderate $20 per year, with a $15 "initiation fee", which also gets you our Newsletter, twice or three times a year. Check the web address for signup information.

floodgate

[Maven]

"Lachmillers I don't know about. They ended up with RCBS, I believe."

Doug, You're correct about Lachmiller molds and RCBS. Ohaus molds were absorbed by them as well. Btw, nice to see your name again on this site. Hope all is well!

Paul

[Suo Gan]

Sometimes a guy can get hasty about melting others bullets down and making their own. If they were cast right, and they fit your guns, I say shoot them!

$.50 is a normal figure for alloy for sale locally. The double cav molds with handles figure $50 plus, the Bond will bring more, the Winchester will probably fetch close to $100, the single cav with handles fig under $40. If you have rare and desirable molds (311440, 358009, etc.) they will bring exponentially more cash. The furnace used would go about $125-150, but new they are going around $300. They are good furnaces and RCBS repairs them when they break.

Sounds like you did pretty good. Are you sure you did not miss anything? Call her back in a week and ask.

[leas327]

Sou Gan,
Believe me all the .38 and .45 stuff is down at my reloading bench already. I love casting but hate lubesizing so all the stuff that is done will be used. There are enough .44 bullets that it might actually justify me getting a .44.

I plan on making a setup to use my lee 4-20 as a feeder pot for the pro melt. I have been wanting to get another furnace to melt alloy so I don't have to wait for the melt to get back up to temperature. Seems like it always happens right when I hit my stride.

Thanks to Floodgate and everyone who has helped so far. This site and the people have been a great resource for me. This forum is pretty much my casting mentor. I hope some day I can be the one answering questions and not asking, but you have to start somewhere.

I will post the rest of the list with what I think is an accurate desciption of the mold conditions shortly.

But right now I have to go check off something off the honey-do list.

[leas327]

here is the rest of the molds

Lee 2cav. .457 round ball looks nib

Lyman single cav. maxi-ball 45 cal 220gr. lead still in mold in good shape w/box

lyman 4 cav. 429244hw has rusty cavities

Ideal 4 cav. 452460 vgc

Saeco 4cav. No. 442 good shape some surface rust on the outside

Saeco 4cav. no. 130 good cavities surface rust on outside

Saeco 4 cav. no. 443 mold have some light surface rust

lyman 4 cav. 311359 good shape lead still in it

lyman 4cav. 451 round ball kinda rusty

Ideal 4 cav. 323470 1 mold block has surface rust all over

lyman 4 cav. 358-495 some light surface rust all over

lyman single cav. 457191 in exc. condition

ideal single cav. 431-244 decent shape has some pitting

Ideal 2 cav. 58-311 good condition

Ideal single cav. 311-241 poor shape

Ideal single cav. .375 round ball poor shape

There was also 8 sets of handles I am not quite sure what they fit. I know 4 fit the lyman 4 cav. molds

[MtGun44]

452460 is an EXCELLENT target boolit in .45 ACP. Try 3.5 TG or BE and you will likely have
excellent groups in a 1911 or 25-2.

BIll

[Suo Gan]

I guess that $300 was a near steal for all that. You could recoup some or all of your money by selling those 4 cavity molds (the ones you don't want).

Research Lee Menting. If that takes care of the rust fine. If it is very heavy rust, try boiling the mold in white vinegar...outdoors of course. If it is worse than that, try Naval Jelly (applied sparingly, try not to slop it around because it will take the finish off the mold). The use of those acids will remove the rust, and might expose some nasty pits. Lapping the cavities will probably need to be done. In the multi cavity molds, if one rusted cavity is lapped, I would lap the rest of the cavities so they will be as similar as possible.

The rust on the outside is pretty much aesthetics. Although you don't want active rust working on the outside of a mold. Kill it by working it over (LIGHTLY) with some 000 steel wool and some Marvel Mystery oil or some regular motor oil. You do not want to be doing any heavy scrubbing on the inside of the mold blocks (I am sure you know that, but it is worth pointing out) A carbide tipped pen can clean out those clogged vent lines.

Remember that it is easier to take off metal than put it back on, so go slowly and check your progress often.

[leas327]

So I went to the range yesterday afternoon and one of the guys in my skeet league asks me if I bought the casting stuff from the woman in the ad. I say yes and then he tells me that he bought the primers she had for sale and that when she was looking for them she found two more boxes of molds. And that they were mine if i wanted them and that i needed to call her. So I did and went and picked them up. She referred to these as the good molds that her husband used all the time. They all have handles and all are stored with lead in the cavities. I haven't cracked them open to look at the condition of the cavities but all of these are in great shape on the outside.

Modern-Bond 2 cav. D-454-713 255gr. swc for 45 colt

Lachmiller 3 cav. 429-250swc

lee 6 cav. 358-1501R

lyman 4 cav. 429244bm

saeco 4 cav. no. 382

lyman 4 cav. 358-156

two of these lyman 4 cav. 358495

lee c429-240-swc 6 cav.

Hensly and Gibbs Murphy OR. #130BB 6cav.

Hensly and Gibbs Murphy OR. #50 10cav.

[Bret4207]

Doug! Really nice to "see you" again! You are sorely missed here.

[mtnman31]

Sweet deal you got, I had a simialr occurence when I bought a Dillon 550 I spied on Craigslist a few years ago. My jaw hit the floor when I walked into his place - there was a giant stack of things he no longer needed on the floor. I got the like-new 550, 3 tool heads and die sets, a tumbler and media separator, etc. along with enough brass, primers, and bullets to make around 10,000 .45 and 9mm rounds. The gentlemen even called me up a few days later and asked me to come back and get some other items he found. All for a meager 500 bucks...

[jameslovesjammie]

Hensly and Gibbs Murphy OR. #130BB 6cav.

Hensly and Gibbs Murphy OR. #50 10cav.

Those two moulds if in good condition will probably recoup almost 100% of your investment.

[matrics631]

Thanks for all the information about these tools. It has helped me to know a little more about the ones that I have.