Blue Dot in the 45 Colt 14,000 psi.

[littlejack]

Anyone using or has ever tried to load the 45 Colt cartridge with Alliant Blue Dot powder? I am interested to know if it burns somewhat clean with the low pressure loads, (14,000) psi or slightly above. I am wanting to stay at 900 fps with the 250 or 255 grain boolits. If it takes 12 to 13 grains of Blue Dot to get there, the case will have a good bit of the volume taken to have better consistancy, and keeping the pressure down to a safe saa load. I am using the Herco now and it works fine, but I would like to try and take up more of the case volume. I am using 9.2 grains and that runs the 250 tp 255 grain boolits out at 900 to 925 fps.
I know it will burn somewhat clean in the high pressure loads. I have used it in my .41 mag in years gone by. I did not have a problem with the few flakes of unburned powder. I was however loading hot loads. I know, the BD is supposed to be REAL dangerous in the .41, but that was before it was ever printed to be bad. I neve had one bit of problem with my reloads with the BD powder. Now I have read thjat a person has called Alliant, and they have said that it is safe. Go figure. All of that being said, I would not hesitate to use it if I were in a tight spot for powder.
Jack

[felix]

Herco and 700X have about the same specific gravity, and are the most fluffiest powders I have ever used. So, to play the game you are requesting, set the measure for the Herco load you like, and replace the powder with BD as your STARTING load. ... felix

[geargnasher]

I have used BD to good effect in SAA loads with 305-grain boolits as well as 255-grain boolits, it does leave a few flecks of powder in the bore and case, but not too bad at all. I've used standard primers and WLPs, I think the standard is plenty good. I was able to get the POI andvelocity I wanted out of my Ruger NV without filing the front sight. BD was and continues to be the answer for the 305-grainers at around 800 FPS. Never had a single safety issue or inconsistency using BD, didn't know it was supposed to be dangerous.

Gear

[littlejack]

geargnasher:
Supposedly in the 357 and .41 mags.

[shotman]

BD is supposed to be a compressed load as shotshell its dirty in a loose pack load but why use it? get the right powder

[Dale53]

It's funny that I am just seeing this thread.

I shot my first .45 Colt cartridges loaded with Blue Dot today. The load was 12.1 grs of BlueDot with a Mihec 45-270-SAA (weighs 285 grs in my alloy - WW's+2% tin). It burned reasonably clean (a few flakes left in barrel-not bad at all). It should be running 900+ fps. I was using a Ruger SS Bisley .45 Colt Convertible. Brian Pearce rates 12.5 BlueDot behind the same bullet at 966 fps and that will be within 14,000 psi.

Dale53

[littlejack]

Dale, thats exactly the kind of information I was looking for.

[littlejack]

Shotman, I believe that any powder that gives the velocity wanted, at the proper pressure is
the right powder. If one gets clean burning, that is a plus. If one gets the proper or close to
the proper load density, that ios even better. Why not use BD? I get unburned flakes with
Unique, as stated earlier with Herco, and even Universal. So I guess dirty is a relative term.
Jack

[Dale53]

littlejack
Happy to help out. By the way, Brian Pearce's article "RCBS 45-270-SAA" is in Handloader Magazine #246 and is available here by download (partial copy of that magazine):

http://www.riflemagazine.com/magazine/PDF/HL%20246partial.pdf

Dale53

[C A Plater]

I've used Blue Dot in .45 Colt loads. Mostly pushing a 270 grain SWC in a Ruger Bisley and S&W Mountain Gun. 13.5 grains produced 1050-1100 fps from the 7.5 inch Bisley barrel. In the Mountain Gun I backed off to 12.5-13.0 grains for shooting comfort in the light revolver. At these power levels I do not notice any unburned powder and fired cases drop from the cylinder.

[zxcvbob]

I have used BD in .45 Colt cast bullet loads, but these were loaded up around 23000 psi for a Ruger Bisley. It works great for that application, but I never tried loading it down.

Is there a reason you want to take up more of the case capacity than with Herco? Herco seems to me like about the perfect powder for what you want.

[littlejack]

zbob:
There is still about .300 to .350 space is the case with the Herco powder. You are correct,
the Herco powder does give good velocity with the 9.2 grains, and space for oxygen to help
the burn. I don't know about the Herco being the perfect powder. How would one tell? I
have considered trying some magnum primers to help clean up the burn some. I haven't
gotten to that yet.
I see no harm in trying to improve my loads to get the velocity I am wanting, while keeping
the pressure at a good safe level and getting the cleanest burn as possible.
With the Blue Dot powder, I will be increasing the load density with a slower powder. This
may increase the consistantcy of the loads. SD, ES, Ave, etc. The load will still have some
space to allow for the burn and not a compressed load. The pressure spike will not be as
sharp or drastic with the BD as with the Herco powder.
Jack

[leftiye]

Blue dot rocks in .45 Colt! Good accuracy and mucho butt kickin'. As was said above, it starts to recoil some in hot loads. I developed some loads in an Arminius SAA copy that I got from J&G Sales about 25 years ago (young and dumb and felt the NEED for speed). 1250 fps with a Lee 250 gr swc plain base. The wrath of HIM come home! I won't say how many grains it took. Roy Casull was asked about running 16.0 grs Blue Dot with a 250 grainer in an S&W .45 Colt and said it sounded good to him. Blue dot has been my favorite .45C powder ever since I found it.

[9.3X62AL]

Not much experience with Blue Dot in the MagRevs/45 Colt, but LOTS of time in grade with Herco. Herco WORKS.

[madsenshooter]

Blue Dot burns very cleanly in my rifle loads, but I'm running around 35,000PSI. A magnum primer will help clean up the burn. I've mentioned before that I ruined a Bisley in 45LC. Quickload estimated I was exceeding 50,000PSI. No hard estraction, no flattened primers, just a barrel swelled ahead of the frame.

[littlejack]

Thank you all for your expierience. It is very much appreciated. Hands on expierience from fellow members is a lot better that reading an article, and then getting a surprise when you pull the trigger.
Jack

[Catshooter]

It's amazing how many powders do well in the .45 Colt.

Good shooting jack.


Cat

[littlejack]

Well, I got my hands on some Blue Dot today. Guess what? The 13 grains Blue Dot powder
doesn't take up any more space than 9.2 grains of Herco. The 9.2 grains is what my Little
Dandy #18 rotor drops. So, the Blue Dot powder is denser, (heavier) than the Herco. So, I
will be sticking with the Herco powder. I will expieriment with the different primers though.
I do not feel that using the Herco powder is a handicap at all. For the low pressure that is
required of the colt saa and their clones, I believe that the Herco is one of the best for case
capacity, (load density), pressure and velocity. The few flakes of unburned powder, I can
live with, and it meters somewhat well in my Little Dandy.
So now we've all learned something. Good shooting to you all.
Jack

[felix]

Yep, I learned about a barrel being destroyed without apparent harm to frame and/or cylinder. Would never have "thunk" possible using a mid-speed powder for the application. So, true to life, anything can and will happen, no matter what Vegas (Jimmy the Greek) says. ... felix

[9.3X62AL]

A thing that just occurred to me......Blue Dot's origins were as magnum shotshell powders for heavy shotweight waterfowl loads using lead shot--then a few years after the powder's appearance, lead shot got disallowed for waterfowl hunting.

In the original poster's question, he posed using Blue Dot at 14K PSI. That is pretty close to its initial design's performance envelope (shotshell pressures of 10K-12K PSI), so 14K PSI seems like a fairly safe ballpark to hit in. Just a thought, from a social science major--so caveat emptor.

Herco has been so tractable in moderate to heavy revolver loads AND field-grade shotshells in 3 gauges that I wouldn't dream of discontinuing its use. It's just too good to do without.

[littlejack]

I agree, that it is one of the better powders available. It would be nice if it was to meter
smoother, but I guess we cannot have everything. I will do some testing with my
Smith & Wesson 57 in .41 mag and see how it performs in that cartridge. I do not believe that I will be dissapointed. If all goes well, I will stick to the Herco for my saa hi end loads, and my. 41 magnum plinkers.
Jack

[smkummer]

Shooting it out of my 7 1/2 barrel Colt SAA, I was getting 900 plus FPS with the Lyman 454190 250 grain Cast FP bullet. Either 13 grains of Blue Dolt or 9.0 grains of Unigue gave me the same results, so for cost reasons I went back to Unique. Unique IS position sensitive and I never did see if Blue Dot was that sensitive. If I were to get 100 FPS more with the Blue Dot, I might have used it but the velocity was the same.

For whats its worth I don't reduce unique because if the pressure get low, the cases really soot up. If I want 750 to 800 FPS with the same bullet, I use red dot or 700X to keep pressure up.

[littlejack]

smkummer, thanks for the information.
I don't want to get above 900 fps by much, as the recoil in the light saa is too uncomfortable.
I can shoot full house .41's in my S&W 57 and it does not sting like the saa.
My 45 Colt clone revolver, (Uberti) will do all I ask of it with the 900 fps load.
Jack

[AlaskaMike]

Littlejack, I'm curious if you've tried Trailboss? It was designed specifically for applications like the .45 colt at SAA pressures.

[littlejack]

No sir, I haven't used the TB powder. I am trying to limit the amount of powdewrs i keep on hand. I'm still in the downsizing mode. Getting closer, but still in the works.
I looks a though the Unique seems to be one the most used powders in the 45 Colts cartridge.
At this time though, I am pretty much staying with the Herco unless a find a definate negative reason not to. I like the volume of space that the powder takes up in the case, it burn clean for me in my saa, and it seems to meter better than the Unique in my Little Dandy measure.
Jack