Problems with 358-158-RF and Dan Wesson

[cricco]

I've been loading the Lee 358-158-RF boolit, sized to .3585 for my Dan Wesson model 15. I have loaded both .38 special and .357 Mag with this boolit, and I keep having the same problem. When I load the rounds into the cylinders, I have to force them in the last 1/8 inch. What the hell am I doing wrong?

[docone31]

I have the same Dan Wesson, and the same mold.
Might you be loading it out a tad?
I do not go by the crimp groove, I do not use a crimp. I use case tension on the casting.
My castings also swell out after sizeing .0001. You might be a little long for the cylinder.

[Dale53]

cricco;
It may be a simple matter of the cylinder throats being too small for a .3585 bullet. Slug your cylinder throats.

That particular bullet is a favorite of mine. However, it has a full size area in front of the case mouth that could be just too large to easily enter the cylinder throats of your revolver.

Dale53

[fourarmed]

If it gets tight at the same point on the case whether it is .38 or .357, it just about has to be that the brass is too big at the web. Are you FL resizing? Does it do it with new brass?

[fryboy]

ummm question ? loaded 38 and 357 cases ...problems with both or just one or the other ? and are u loading them to the same length ? if ur loading 357's now but have fired a bunch with 38 cases then it's also possible that a slight ring of carbon has built up around the chamber/throat , i love this boolit ! in fact it's one of my fav's to test hi-velocity lubes with ( i start with 38 cases and work my way up to 357 herret cases )

[cricco]

I have the same Dan Wesson, and the same mold.
Might you be loading it out a tad?
I do not go by the crimp groove, I do not use a crimp. I use case tension on the casting.
My castings also swell out after sizeing .0001. You might be a little long for the cylinder.


But it shouldn't be doing this with .38's also. Should it?

[cricco]

If it gets tight at the same point on the case whether it is .38 or .357, it just about has to be that the brass is too big at the web. Are you FL resizing? Does it do it with new brass?

This seems like the problem to me also. I am full ength resizing. I have tried a Lyman die and a Lee die. Both are causing the same problem. Factory ammo doesn not give me this problem.

[cricco]

ummm question ? loaded 38 and 357 cases ...problems with both or just one or the other ? and are u loading them to the same length ? if ur loading 357's now but have fired a bunch with 38 cases then it's also possible that a slight ring of carbon has built up around the chamber/throat , i love this boolit ! in fact it's one of my fav's to test hi-velocity lubes with ( i start with 38 cases and work my way up to 357 herret cases )


Yes. Problem is with BOTH. So, I'm thinking it's the case web area? I must be doing something wrong. I just don't know what. My die touches the shell plate when I resize, and the Rock Chucker press just cams over with each case.

[RayinNH]

a slight ring of carbon has built up around the chamber/throat ,

That was my thought as well...Ray

[fryboy]

hmmmmm .... a slight over crimp could bulge the case and it's also possible that the neck with the boolit installed is a wee fat ? i would suspect the sizing die and shoulder/web only if it wont go in without a boolit being seated .....



edit for add .... it's also possible that if u arent crimping then perhaps ur not quite getting all the belling/flare out ?

[x101airborne]

i had the same thing with j-boolits. I was crimping way too heavy causing a slight bend in the case. Roll some of your loaded rounds on the table. If the booits wobble, you are bending your brass when crimping.

[mdi]

Did you measure the finished round? Is the diameter smaller than the chamber? Measure several times along the length of the case. The chamber is a hole, and the cartridge is a peg. The peg must be smaller than the hole...

[lwknight]

First things first:
Make sure the chamber is clean. Then we go from there.
Quite possibly the ring is tight on the .3585 boolits because its a 2r ogive.

[Mallard57]

If I remember right the crimp groove is pretty narrow on that bullet, maybe your crimp is a little swollen like someone has mentioned before.
Jeff

[MT Gianni]

Check your shell-holder. It may be loose enough that it is leaving a ring when the die is bottomed.

[cricco]

Check your shell-holder. It may be loose enough that it is leaving a ring when the die is bottomed.

Ahhhhh! I'm going to check this! Thank you.

[lwknight]

What kind of shell holder can get loose and cause a ring?
I just can't see it going down.

[evan price]

Resize a case, do not flare, no boolit, see if it goes in the cylinder as is. If it does, it's not a sizing problem. Mic a finished case at the crimp, should be .378" (Boolit diameter + 2x brass wall thickness, usually .010") Since you said it does it with 38 and 357 brass I bet your crimp is the problem.

[cricco]

Resize a case, do not flare, no boolit, see if it goes in the cylinder as is. If it does, it's not a sizing problem. Mic a finished case at the crimp, should be .378" (Boolit diameter + 2x brass wall thickness, usually .010") Since you said it does it with 38 and 357 brass I bet your crimp is the problem.
O.K. It appears that a resized case fits the chamber just fine, so it is only the loaded ammo that is giving me problems. Therefore, it must be the crimp. Now, is it possible that I am using too much crimp? Hmmm.....

[Dale53]

It can be either the crimp OR the bullet is too large in front of the case (tight throats).

Dale53

[jmsj]

O.K. It appears that a resized case fits the chamber just fine, so it is only the loaded ammo that is giving me problems. Therefore, it must be the crimp. Now, is it possible that I am using too much crimp? Hmmm.....

Is the case mouth of the brass rolling completely into the crimp groove?
You could measure the diameter of an unloaded sized case and do the same w/ a loaded case, that should tell you what you need to know. jmsj

[cricco]

Is the case mouth of the brass rolling completely into the crimp groove?


BINGO! This was the problem. I have resolved the issue, by seating the crimp better into the crimp groove. I was using the OAL that was listed in the book, but apparently my boolits like a different OAL if I'm going to crimp them in the groove. Is this common?

[rintinglen]

BINGO! This was the problem. I have resolved the issue, by seating the crimp better into the crimp groove. I was using the OAL that was listed in the book, but apparently my boolits like a different OAL if I'm going to crimp them in the groove. Is this common?
Sadly, very much so. :shock: I have run into it with Jacketed bullets before, though off hand I can't think of it happening with a cast bullet. I sometimes wonder how the manual writer's can be so precise and then be so wrong
I mean, they give seating depths and OALs to the thousandth of an inch, and then are off by ten times that and more.

[Dale53]

The problem is simple once you analyze it. Case length has a direct bearing on overall length. Cases simply vary in length. When you trim them to all being the same length (advisable so as to get consistently good crimps) you remove metal while doing so. When I trim a batch of cases, I tend to trim them to the length of the shortest case - in doing so, I also reduce the overall length.

Just something to be aware of and guide yourself accordingly. The writers give an overall length that worked for them. It is necessary to be aware of this, so they give the dimensions. Just because their dimensions are not exactly the same as yours, don't mean they were wrong, just means that is what they did.

Dale53