Our eternal battle against bore fouling

[4296]

While I have found adequate means to deal with lead and copper fouling (currently copper strands wrapped around a bore brush and sometimes the Outers Foul Out system for lead and Sweets for copper) my efforts against POWDER fouling continues to frustrate me. Those grey streaks are impossible to remove completely. Currently I use a 50/50 mix of Hoppes and Kroil with moderate sucess. I am interested to hear others experiences in the fighting of this battle.

[BABore]

A mixture of Kroil and J-B non-enbedding bore paste cleaner from Brownells. A tight fitting jag and patch well coated with J-B and a few drops of Kroil. One pass, back and forth, for each shot fired or til clean. Follow with a few patches of solvent. Only way I can get to white-patch clean if I really want/need to go that far.

You might also want to try some GM TEC (top engine cleaner) for a powder solvent. Same thing as Butch's Bore Shine at 1/4 the cost. Nowhere near as pleasant smelling as Hoppes I'm afraid.

[Doc_Stihl]

A can of wipe-out is AWESOME for removing powder fouling. It comes in foaming and liquid form.

http://www.midwayusa.com/viewproduct/?productnumber=784639

[dromia]

Good boolit fit, appropriate lube and alloy (hardness and ductility) for the velocity and you shouldn't get leading, or at least any that effects accuracyand is worth bothering about.

For me a perfectly clean bore is not desirable, as most barrels seem to need a bit "seasoning in" to get them to settle down.

Kroil works well for me at getting slivers of lead out and as has been said Wipe Out is excellent at getting back to bore metal.

[44man]

While I have found adequate means to deal with lead and copper fouling (currently copper strands wrapped around a bore brush and sometimes the Outers Foul Out system for lead and Sweets for copper) my efforts against POWDER fouling continues to frustrate me. Those grey streaks are impossible to remove completely. Currently I use a 50/50 mix of Hoppes and Kroil with moderate sucess. I am interested to hear others experiences in the fighting of this battle.
I get no leading and can shoot my revolvers for several years without cleaning. Carbon is just something I don't worry about.
A gun with no metal fouling just does not have to be cleaned to bare steel unless you shoot BP.
However, if you just need to see metal, try M-Pro 7 and a bore brush. The outside can be scrubbed with a suede brush and the cleaner. It is a water based cleaner developed for the military and you can wipe it out or flush the bore with hot water.
I start with Hoppe's, dry it and go to M-Pro 7. Hoppe's still works for the worst.
I don't think carbon responds to oil base cleaners, you can't dissolve it but you can wash it away.
I got gigged all the time in basic training for a dirty bore, just like everyone else. I scrubbed the bore with Lava soap from then on and the Sarge always said he never seen such a clean bore! :drinks: By the way, I won the company trophy on the 500 yard KD range with that M1 with the highest score ever shot.
My daughter shot the highest score in the Marines too, out shooting all the men.

[skeet1]

I mixed up a batch of "Ed's Red" and find that it removes powder fouling very well and better than most other solvents I've used. You might consider making some yourself and see what you think.

Skeet1

[kirill]

I've got some black residue in the grooves. It's clearly visible near the muzzle with a 2x magnifying glass. Hard and slick. Seems like it flaked off in a spot and looks to be a couple of thousands thick. Maybe .005.

This is a .308. Been shooting Ranch Dog 311-165's at around 2000fps with 45/45/10 and jacketed.

Could it be carbon? It's soaking in Ed's Red now...

Thanks for any input.

Kirill

[lwknight]

It might be carbon on top of lead or copper fouling.

[waksupi]

I think a lot of people clean their bores too often. If you have a load that isn't leading, do not clean the bore, unless you see accuracy falling off. When you clean it, you remove the conditioning, and have to start from square one again, to get it back to it's potential.

[kirill]

Yes,

Accuracy has fallen off. Last time at the range jacketed started shooting worst and worst.

It's definitly a layer of something. Black, hard and smooth. When the barrel was new, with a magnifying glass i could see the button marks on the lands and grooves. Now they are only visible on the lands.

Kirill

[jsizemore]

Montana Extreme takes care of the regular cleaning. When a patch is tight in the throat and loosens when it goes down the remainder of the barrel, a little J-B bore paste short stroked the length of the barrel makes the trace of carbon on the patch go away.

[lwknight]

Driving a semi-hard slug through the barrel from the muzzle end will knock out a lot of the lead fouling.
I slugged a barrel on a Taurus revolver and got a handful of lead flakes being pushed out by the slug. It was a hard drive the first time then I re-slugged the same and the slug was easy to drive.
Slugging a fouled bore can give false readings anyway.

[zomby woof]

A mixture of Kroil and J-B non-enbedding bore paste cleaner from Brownells. A tight fitting jag and patch well coated with J-B and a few drops of Kroil. One pass, back and forth, for each shot fired or til clean. Follow with a few patches of solvent. Only way I can get to white-patch clean if I really want/need to go that far.



This is the quickest way. It will save you lots of solvent and patches.

[geargnasher]

I don't experience bore fouling as an eternal battle. I used to shoot mostly jacketed and my theory was clean every 20 shots back to bare metal, and work up loads and adjust optics for a clean-barrel first shot.

Now, I use cast exclusively and found that the bare-metal after each session cleaning is a waste of time, in fact is non-productive as has been mentioned. After shooting, I wipe the bore with a clean patch and then wipe again with a lightly-oiled patch just to prevent rust. The current lube recipe I'm using has left me with orange on the pre-shooting patch after sitting a month on two different guns, so I take the precaution now.

If everything is right, you should theoretically never have to clean your barrel if you only shoot cast boolits through it. I've also found that some lead in the barrel of some guns doesn't make much difference, and in fact have at least one pistol that shoots BETTER after the first ten or so rounds on a spotless barrel because of the slight lead filling in the rough spots. If I just clean and dry the barrel and leave the lead alone it shoots the same first ten rounds like the next two hundred, and the leading never gets any worse beyond a certain point.

Gear

[Bret4207]

Gear, Waksupi and Dromia said it all. Why worry about unless it presents a problem?

[arkypete]

Here's an alternative.. A buddy bought a case of those small 3-4 ounce, OD, govnt surplus, WWII bore solvent. The stuff looks awful and smells worse, but it cleans out carbon and powder fouling right now.

Jim

[onesonek]

Yes,

Accuracy has fallen off. Last time at the range jacketed started shooting worst and worst.

It's definitly a layer of something. Black, hard and smooth. When the barrel was new, with a magnifying glass i could see the button marks on the lands and grooves. Now they are only visible on the lands.

Kirill


Just curious, as I can't add to what others have said,,,What powder you using?

[44man]

I've got some black residue in the grooves. It's clearly visible near the muzzle with a 2x magnifying glass. Hard and slick. Seems like it flaked off in a spot and looks to be a couple of thousands thick. Maybe .005.

This is a .308. Been shooting Ranch Dog 311-165's at around 2000fps with 45/45/10 and jacketed.

Could it be carbon? It's soaking in Ed's Red now...

Thanks for any input.

Kirill
Sounds like a poor lube. If it is carbon, it might be burnt lube instead of powder residue. I will forever feel that Alox burns and smokes no matter what you mix it with.
Try something without Alox.

[runfiverun]

i'd look at the powder too.
are you mixing jaxketed and cast back and forth?