Black powder or smokeless

[BSkerj]

As I have posted on previous threads in this forum I am in the middle of ordering a Big Timber Shiloh. I am torn on which direction to go as far as using BP or Smokeless powder in it. After talking to the folks in Big Timber I am leaning just using BP since the 45/70 was made for BP....but I load smokeless in my 1895 Marlin and quite happy with it. Is there alot of learning curve in loading black powder? My only experiance that comes close is using a inline with Pyrex. What do the majority of you use and why? Thanks in advance !:)

[TonyT]

I have always used smokeless powder in my old single shots. The idea of scrubbing the bore in the bathtub after shooting black powder never appealed to me.

[missionary5155]

Greetings
Black powder has it needs but it not all that hard.
If you have a boolit fat enough for the bore and just filled a csae with 2f enougfh so you got about 1/8 compression you would have a load that would be plenty adequet for hunting deer.
But if you want to compete you will have to do some load developement which will involve some details that will be easily learned.
Plenty of comp shooters here will happily share info.

[67bear]

I only use black powder in my 1874 Shiloh 45-70. I have been very happy with the results. Probably won't ever try smokeless. There is a bit of a learning curve involved, but that's a big part of the fun. I certainly don't know everything, but I'd be happy to share what has worked for me with you if you'd like.

[Don McDowell]

As I have posted on previous threads in this forum I am in the middle of ordering a Big Timber Shiloh. I am torn on which direction to go as far as using BP or Smokeless powder in it. After talking to the folks in Big Timber I am leaning just using BP since the 45/70 was made for BP....but I load smokeless in my 1895 Marlin and quite happy with it. Is there alot of learning curve in loading black powder? My only experiance that comes close is using a inline with Pyrex. What do the majority of you use and why? Thanks in advance !:)

There's a little bit of a learning curve but it's not bad. The 45-70 is as simple as 70 grs of 2f powder a .030 fiber wad and seat a blackpowder lubed bullet to the desired depth, and you'll be ready to roll.
Clean up is a simple as a couple of dry patches on a jag down the bore followed by a three or four wet ones and dry , then oil/grease the bore.
Punch the primers out of the cases sloshem around in a jug full of water and detergent. rinse and dry. Run them thru the case tumbler if you want(they'll look prettier) or just load again.

[Quigley284]

I use to think like Tony. I had been told and heard about the same. I didn't want to have a bath tub involved with cleaning of any rifle, much less a very expensive one. I have always been able to appreciate a Shiloh for what they are. Go with black and don't look back. Don gave you a good starting point. Just about the most fun you can with your clothes on. Mike

[Gunlaker]

About 2 years ago I had a Pedersoli and only shot smokeless. Then I tried bought some Goex and have never looked back. Most of my smokeless rifles are gone and replaced with 1874's and 1885's. As a relatively recent convert to the dark side I completely agree with Don.

Chris.

[August]

That's a lot of money to spend on a rifle only to use inferior loads to shoot it with.

Black powder is so much more consistent than smokeless and, therefore, more accurate.

Once the gun is seasoned, two patches will clean it.

The only people who say black powder is difficult to clean up after are people who've never used it or people who only used it once and didn't know how to do the job properly.

It is an absolute truth that cleaning black powder guns is much easier than cleaning smokeless guns. But, you'd have to have experience with both to know that.

[Jbar4Ranch]

Shiloh warranties their rifles in .30-40K, .38-55, and .45-70 for factory smokeless rounds, but they do NOT recommend it, and even go out of their way to state they DO NOT recommend that smokeless powder handloads be used in the large volume blackpowder cartridges of the 1870s.
Shoot black; it's more consistent and will give better accuracy than any smokeless powder available.

[mroliver77]

August,
Two patches?? Please explain this please. Only black experience I have is with ML and I take off barrel, fill sink with hot soapy water and pump patch through till clean. Dry on woodstove or over kitchen range then oil. I re patch and oil a couple times after during the next week. This is my experience with black.
I have Marlin 93 that begs to be shot with black but I have been afraid of all the work and possibly rusting the gun. Thanks for any pointers.
Jay

[Gunlaker]

For my single shots, I use about 3 or 4 patches with a mixture of Ballistol and water. Then I dry the chamber and bore with another patch or two. Then a patch with Ballistol and it's ready to put away. ( On my 1874's I also remove the breech block and give that and the action a quick clean too. ). Most of my shooting involves wiping between shots so the bore never really gets all that dirty anyway.

I find that cleaning a BP single shot takes far less time than a modern rifle with jacketed bullets. That copper takes forever to come out!

The only slightly tedious cleanup is the cartridge cases. I soak them in soapy water and clean them with a "test tube" brush. Then I let them air dry, and toss them into my tumbler for 2 hours.

Chris.

[NickSS]

I have been firing both Muzzle loaders and breach loaders with black powder for 45 years. I have also shot many thousands of rounds shooting high power rifle matches and pistol matches using smokeless powder. So I thing I have some basis for my opinion. When you are talking about a rifle like a Shiloh Sharps shoot black powder and you will find out three things really fast. They are that accuracy will be supurb, clean up will take almost no time at all, and you will have a lot of fun. You will also find that with smokeless powder accuracy will take more work to get, clean up will take longer and you will have somewhat less fun (I really like the boom and cloud of smoke more than a bang and no smoke). I will give an example. Two weeks ago I went to a silhouette match and fired the entire match without cleaning or wiping my bore (I use a blow tube between shots). I came in third in my class (AAA) and at the end of shooting I ran two patches through my bore moistened with my saliva. The first was black and the second was gray. When I got home I ran two patches with balistol and water followed by a dry patch then one patch with balistol on it and I was done cleaning. A week ago I took the same rifle out and fired 40 rounds of smokeless loads loaded with the same 400 gr bullet and 27 gr of AA 5744. I had to use about 10 patches and a brush to get the gun clean. So the only disadvantage I can see to shooting black powder is the extra time it takes to pour powder down a drop tube before seating the bullet.

[Wayne Smith]

One thing that hasn't been covered well is care of the PB case. I just shot a bunch of 44-40 yesterday loaded with Goex. I put the cases in my vibratory 'tumbler' and added citric acid mix to cover the ceramic media. They ran overnight. This morning I dumped them out, cleaned the meddia under running water, and put them in the walnut media for an hour or so to dry out. Came out the cleanest, shiniest brass I've ever seen. I've been using the ceramic media for years with soapy water but this beats soapy water hands down. The ceramic media I use is 3mm round balls, but other shapes work just as well I understand.

[Springfield]

With my lever guns that I shoot BP with, I just take a pitcher of water with 10% Murphy's Oil soap, and pour it down the bore. Then I pull a bore snake through it to remove all the fouling. Then I run a oiled patch through the bore. I wipe down the parts of the gun that got wet with Kroil and the parts that didn't with Break-Free. Never took a gun in the bath with me yet.

[cajun shooter]

Tony T, Some where in your life you have been fed some very big lies about Black Powder. Maybe you misunderstood when the BP shooter said he had to go home and take a bath so that he could take out SWMBO. I do have a close friend that shoots frontiersman class in SASS and his wife can't stand the smell of moosemilk. She has him shower in the outside pool bath before coming in the house.

[wills]

Cleaning a single shot BPCR is not as difficult as people pretend. Use a blow tube between shots. A shot of clear Windex down the muzzle, a shot of Windex on each of three patches put through the breach, followed by an oily patch, clean the exterior and sights with an oily patch, and its done.

[August]

I've been asked to explain two patches.

The "trick" to cleaning black powder gunz is to let the barrel soak for a while before running anything through it.

When I clean my black powder shotgun, after a cowboy match, I spray the inside of the barrels with ballistol and water and let them soak for 30 minutes (any lesser amount of time doesn't work in my experience). After that time, I run one patch (a paper towel in this case) down the barrel. ALL of the plastic and all of the fouling come out in one swoop. Then, an oiled patch is run through to protect the gun.

Really, two patches -- but you have to have everything softened up before the first one goes through.

Time, in this case, is your friend.