TC carb. 38-55 huntin Question

[gee-gaw]

Hey Guys,
I've got a TC Contender Carbine in 38-55 that I want to deer hunt with. I would like to get some input from all you kind folks who have taken deer with your 38-55s. What load / boolit and velocity. And did your deer go DRT or did he run for a ways? What angle and how much penetration? If you recovered the boolit, did it expand? What was your alloy?
I got this carbine with the intentions of it being a dedicated cast boolit gun for hunting. I've tried two loads in it so far, and it seems to like my Lee 250 GR flatnose boolit pretty fair. Groups are going around 1.5 to 2.0 at 100 yards. But velocity is modest, one load averaged 900 FPS and the other just over 1300 FPS. I really like the mild loads for shooting at the range, and these will help boost my confidence for when I go hit the woods, But do you think I need to bump it up a bit? I shouldn't have any problems getting 1800 FPS with a little harder alloy. I live in east Tenn. and most of my shots at game have been fairly close ( 60 - 90 YDS )
So give me your thoughts and opinions, heck I won't be offended if you tell me that I'm nuts. I know that there is a wealth of information on this site, and I'm wanting to draw from it a little, since I've never taken deer with a cast boolit, and you guys have.
Thanks In Advance,
Wayne

[NickSS]

You are not nuts and the 38-55 with the 250 gr lee bullet will work fine. The old BP loads went about 1200 to 1300 fps and were noted for being a fine deer getter. However, do not expect a DRT event. Slow mooving cartridges tend to punch a hole through and the animal even if hard hit does go some distance but then I have seen white tail go 25-50 yards when shot through the lungs with a 7mm Magnum. My experience is good with that caliber at around 13 to 14 hundred FPS. The contender is capable of loadings up to nearly 2000 fps but you will need a GC bullet for that velocity and at the ranges you hunt you do not need the flatter trajectory.

[excess650]

My experience is with a Savage 1899 and 22" barrel. The twist is 1-12" (rebore) so much quicker than the original 1-18" twist.

My favorite loads, and while I wouldn't recommend them for a BP action, are moderate. 26gr Reloader 7, 28-30gr AA2015, or 30-32gr AA2200 under the 280gr w/GC Lyman 375449. I've been told that they chrono right at 1700fps.

Your load sounds really slow to me.

[gee-gaw]

Thanks guys,
NickSS, That's fine info on what to expect after the shot, and I've settled on 1300 to 1500 FPS as my target velocity. I'll let the rifle tell me what it likes best.

excess650, Thank you for the load data, I've herd that Reloader 7 is the powder for moderate 38-55 loads. I have some AA 2015 and plan on getting some Reloader 7, so I might try some of your loads in my rifle ( reduced, of coarse )
Thanks Guys and keep it coming,
Wayne

[excess650]

If you have AA2015, I wouldn't bother buying Reloader 7. While I was using the 280gr bullet I found that Rx7 peaked pressure wise rather abruptly. AA2015 was far more linear. My chamber is on the generous side near the base, so I chose to keep pressures moderate in effort to increase case life.

[C A Plater]

I currently use 30.0 grains IMR3031 under a 245 grain plain base in my H&R rifle. I worked up to this load with more a mind to accuracy but I would not hesitate to fling one of these at a deer. I don't have chronograph data for this load but if I had to guess it would come in around the 1500-1600fps range. Clocking the load is on my todo list but I need a round tuit. ;) I would suspect H322 would also work well based on my experience using it in cast .30-30 loads.

[gee-gaw]

excess650,
I'll take your advice and hold off on the Re7 and focus on 2015 for now. Although my brass is new, I kinda wish L. E. Wilson made dies for 38-55, that way my brass would last a lot longer since they only size the neck ( I'm an old benchrest shooter )

C A Plater,
I have some 3031 and have not used any in many years. I'll have to try some. Does 30 Gr. fill the case more than half full? That would make since, utilizing most of the powder capacity would certainly help with accuracy. If that load isn't too punishing, I thing it would be good for my needs.
Guys,
You have given me plenty to ponder, and to try, and I sincerely thank you for taking your precious time to respond to my rantings.
Wayne

[excess650]

If you're concerned about neck sizing, consider that the 38-55 is a tapered case. Back your FL sizer die off the shellholder 4-6 turns, and you're effectively neck sizing. You'll have to make the adjustment to suit yourself as its a balancing act with neck tension. My preference is to not crimp, and particularly with a singleshot. You also have more choices as to bullet style, profile, OAL, etc compared to a guy with a lever action.

AA's data for the 38-55 with 240gr GC at 2.51" OAL is:

28.4-31.5gr AA2015 1710-1943fps @28K cup
34.2-38.0 AA2495BR 1778-2020fps @25.2K cup

I think both of these powders' starting loads too high for plainbase bullets.

Lyman 45th lists the 249gr 375248 from a 26" Win 94:

16-18gr 2400 1292-1420fps
19-21gr IMR 4227 1335-1543fps

More AA data, but for a 255gr cast:

20.2-22.5 AA5744 1404-1596fps @ 27.9K cup

[gee-gaw]

Good info!!!
My first two loads were with IMR Trailboss ( 900 FPS ) and AA 5744 ( 1300 FPS ) I had been looking for another mould on the swap & shop but no luck, think I'll order a new one tonight from midway. I'm leaning toward a heavy mould ( twist is 1 in 14" ) but am open to suggestions.
Wayne

[excess650]

There are a couple of Saeco designs at a nominal 300gr. While they look alike, one is straight and the other tapered, and both plainbase. Lyman makes a nominal 335gr rounded nose plainbase for use in singleshots. I think NEI lists bullets up to 380gr, but their reputation isn't good as of late. Of course you could have Mountain Molds cut whatever you wanted...

I use the 375449 as my standard bullet in my Savage 1899. With GC and lube they weigh 280gr.

[C A Plater]

excess650,
C A Plater,
I have some 3031 and have not used any in many years. I'll have to try some. Does 30 Gr. fill the case more than half full? That would make since, utilizing most of the powder capacity would certainly help with accuracy. If that load isn't too punishing, I thing it would be good for my needs.


To the best of my recollection it filled cases more than half. Although my H&R is heavier than a T/C carbine it has a metal butt plate and I wanted a modest recoil load so I could shoot a lot more and still have decent accuracy.

Courtney

[gee-gaw]

excess650,
I'll go with a 300 -310 Gr. plain base, that has a relatively long ogive. Will be a Lyman I think, then later, a 325-350Gr. paper patched boolit. This will be a full custom with maybe a slightly hollow base and a near spitzer nose.

Courtney,
What twist is the H&R, and what length is the barrel? Could you get down near an inch at 100 yards with your set-up? This accuracy stuff is interesting. To date, I've been unable to average less than an inch with any cast boolit load. Sure, Every-once-in-a-while I'll get a group that goes sub-moa, but they are exceptions, not the rule.
Thank-you Guys for all your input, It has been very thought provoking.
Wayne

[C A Plater]

The barrel is a long 28" and believe it has a 1-18 twist. I shoot this with iron sights and my eyes are not up to 100 yard targets so I shoot this one at shorter ranges. I don't know if this will shoot that well but I have gotten 1" cast groups with my T/C Contender carbine in .30-30 with a 4x scope so it can be done.

[Boz330]

I've taken 2 deer with the Lee 250gr boolit out of a 75 C-Sharps 26" 1-15 twist. The first one was 85yd quartering Rt front and the boolit went clean through and got the lung and liver. The deer went probably 100+yd with a big blood trail. Second one was 65yd frontal shot facing up hill. The boolit went into the lower chest hit several bones traveled along the spine and stopped in the right rear ham under the hide. The boolit diameter was about .50. The deer was DRT. I only hunt with BP loads for the challenge. As Nick pointed out they will typically travel a ways with the slower load but if you get penetration the blood trail is pretty easy to follow.

Bob

[gee-gaw]

Hey Courtney,
Shootin irons, now thats pretty die-hard old school stuff, I'm not that brave!!! I've got a Remington 700 in 30-06 that shoot cast boolits pretty well, but not consistently below an inch.

Hey Bob,
Now thats what I'm talkin about!!! Killin stuff with your very own cast boolits! That is a challenge, and in this cut and dried world the feeling of accomplishment gets harder and harder to come-by. Good info on some good game-shots. So if you were using black powder, your velocities were in the 1200-1400 FPS range. Sounds like your alloy was pretty soft to expand at those velocities. COOL!!!
I slugged my barrel and found that it measures .3765 till you get to the last 4.5 inches then it goes to .3760, my sizer die is sizing those Lee boolits to right at .3792 and they weigh 253.5 to 254.5 and you can scratch them with a thumb nail easily. I've not had any problems with chamber dimensions at that diameter and have fired those soft boolits to 1500 FPS with only a few light streaks of lead after 20+ rounds. Do you folks think I might be OK for hunting with this set-up? I made an acquaintance who has graciously offered to let me hunt wild hogs on his farm, seems they have become a nuisance there. Will this load do the job on an old tusker?
This is exciting stuff, and I really appreciate you fine folks takin time out from your busy day to entertain my crazy questions.
Thanks Again,
Wayne

[C A Plater]

Oh yeah! It will "Giter Done". Poking a .379 hole through either bambi or porky will most definitely put them down whether it expands or not. I've not perforated one myself with a .38-55 cast but have done so with a .35 Remington in a 14" Contender. After that experience I nickname the barrel the Deer Hammer. Good luck chasing those hogs. Carpe Sus. (seize the hog)

Courtney

[Boz330]

Hey Bob,
Now thats what I'm talkin about!!! Killin stuff with your very own cast boolits! That is a challenge, and in this cut and dried world the feeling of accomplishment gets harder and harder to come-by. Good info on some good game-shots. So if you were using black powder, your velocities were in the 1200-1400 FPS range. Sounds like your alloy was pretty soft to expand at those velocities. COOL!!!
I slugged my barrel and found that it measures .3765 till you get to the last 4.5 inches then it goes to .3760, my sizer die is sizing those Lee boolits to right at .3792 and they weigh 253.5 to 254.5 and you can scratch them with a thumb nail easily. I've not had any problems with chamber dimensions at that diameter and have fired those soft boolits to 1500 FPS with only a few light streaks of lead after 20+ rounds. Do you folks think I might be OK for hunting with this set-up? I made an acquaintance who has graciously offered to let me hunt wild hogs on his farm, seems they have become a nuisance there. Will this load do the job on an old tusker?
This is exciting stuff, and I really appreciate you fine folks takin time out from your busy day to entertain my crazy questions.
Thanks Again,
Wayne

Wayne,
It has been a long time since I cast those Lee's and I think they were something like 20 or 30 to 1 lead/tin. I never ran those loads over a chrono but from other stuff I've done they were probably between 1300 and 1400FPS. My standard load for target with that gun is a 335gr boolit. That is overkill for a deer but it is what the gun prefers.

Bob

[gee-gaw]

Hey Bob,
Man, I've really been struggling to get those almost pure lead boolits to fill-out. Seems one side will look good then the other side will have rounded driving bands. I'm getting less than 50% good boolits. Maybe I need to start fresh with some new alloy. I've got pure lead that is from sheet goods that I scrounged after a project we did at work. But I don't know how to get the tin that I need to raise the cast-ability of my alloy. If it were Linotype, I think I could get my keepers percentage to go up considerable. But alas, yet another learning curve that I must ascend. Thanks Bob for taking time to respond. And thanks to everyone else that has posted so positively on this subject.
Wayne

[excess650]

You can cast beautiful bullets with pure lead and tin. I would try for 20-1 to to 30-1 if you're not going to have antimony in there. 50/50 solder or 60/40 solder will work if you don't have access to pure tin. Plumbing supply houses or stained glass suppliers should have it. Of course you could just order from RotoMetals.

If you're trying to cast with pure lead, you might not have enough heat. Both the mold and metal will need to be hot, and you may have to resort to pressure casting. You could add a little lino to get your tin and a little antimony. Keep the percentages of antimony and tin low, and you'll still have pretty soft bullets, particualry if air cooled.

[Boz330]

As Excess said even a little tin does wonders and you should be able to find the solder at any hardware store.

Bob

[gee-gaw]

Thanks Guys,
I'm gonna have to go to the hardware store and get some tin!!! And maybe turn my Lee pot up all the way.
Wayne

[gee-gaw]

Thanks Guys,
Guess I'm gonna have to hit the hardware store and get some tin!!!! And then turn my Lee pot all the way up.
Wayne