So much different lead....what to do?

[Surge223]

I started casting about a month ago, and have had good luck with different ingots and some sheet lead. I have just mixed things in my 4-20, fluxed with a paint stick, and have had good results in several different molds.

I have gotten carried away with buying lead. I have bought several lots from flebay, bought some from the local scrapper, etc. Now I have ingots, pipes, sheets, chunks and I have no idea what is hard, soft, or anything in between.

What should I do with it? Melt it all in one pot and cast ingots?

[lwknight]

A man after my own heart you are.
I smelt all my junk into large bricks. They are easier to manage than a lot of junk.
Also I keep different kinds separated. You can write in the ingots with a Marks-O-Lot.

You are not a madman , just a mad investor. muahhaha!

[Jeffrey]

lwknight is right about keeping different stuff separate.
"Pure" lead will scratch with a fingernail. This is good for muzzleloader projectiles, soft point noses, and alloy mixing. The sheets and pipes will likely fall into this catagory. Apply the scratch test. PLEASE note: the pipe may have"wipe joints". These are oval splices joining two or more pipes. Think couplings. These wipe joints are high tin hard alloy and are worth keeping separate for rifle boolits.
Be especially carefull smelting the pipe. These will contain a lot of stuff that will end up as dross. Water WILL hide under the scale inside the pipe. Even if you know the inside is dry NEVER EVER lay pipe down in a pot of molten lead. A molten lead shotgun will result as the air inside the pipe expands blowing molten lead out both ends of the pipe. Think tinsel fairy times 100.
Muffin tins make good ingot moulds. Get the tins that are dark, NOT silver. Silver colored tins are tin plated and molten lead will solder tight to them. Cast iron is not necessary unless you get it cheap / free.
Remember good ventilation, stay safe, enjoy.
Jeffrey

[lwknight]

I should have mentioned about the lead pipe myself. The pipe can and often does have water trapped in it. I have a scar on my arm on that account.
Small pipe can be cut easily with loppers. The anvil type are better than the by-pass type.
So do not put pieces of pipe in molten lead.

[cbrick]

By all means keep the different types of lead separated into ingots and marked. Blend what you need when you need it, very simple to do this and extremely difficult to undo it later. I guarantee you that as time goes on your casting, loading, shooting will change and thus your alloy needs will change. If you blend it all together now you have one alloy regardless of what your needs may be later.

Rick

[sqlbullet]

I tend to manage my lead based on general attributes and quantities. I keep pure/near pure separate. I keep type metals separate.

If I get unknown stuff I evaluate it's hardness, and look at quantity. If it is more than 100 lbs, then it gets it's own ingots, boxes and labels. If it is less than 100 lbs, then it goes in a heap until the heap of mystery stuff is 100 lbs. Then this gets ingoted, tested and labeled for hardness and stored.

I am not really interested in managing a bunch of different lead types. Currently, I have linotype, 95/2.5/2.5, 96/3/1 and pure. I also have certain isotope containers I like better. These get a generic hardness label and a note that they are "blue vial" or "core plug", etc.

[runfiverun]

you need to be careful also with some of what appears to be soft.
water pipe can and does contain antimony, so what appears to be dead soft might just have 5% antimony in it.
hornady swaged wadcutters that were super soft had 5% antimony in them and once cast with a bit of tin in them surprised more than one scrounger.

[sqlbullet]

runfiverun makes a good point. Always hardness test a uniform finished product. I test 175 gr Lee SWC tl on the nose. You never know what process the lead you get when through to get to it's current form. Since lead work softens, and most alloys quench and age harden, you need to control the process from melt to test.

Also, cast 10-20 samples, and average your test results. Always cast samples at the same temp (700° is my standard) and test them after the same amount of time (24 hours for me). It is also useful to cast 10-20 samples air-cooled for testing, and another 10-20 water dropped for testing. This reveals the presence of a grain refiner, usually antimony. testing them again after 2 weeks can inform about an age hardener like arsenic.

--Edit: Or, do what I did for the first year. If it makes nice bullets, and they shoot OK, spend your time casting and shooting, not testing. The test results are interesting theoretical data, but not needed if you have something that works.

[cbrick]

testing them again after 2 weeks can inform about an age hardener like arsenic.

Good post except the thing about "an age hardener like arsenic".

Pb/Sb will age harden, (As) is not needed for this. Pb/Sb/As will quench/HT considerably more but the Pb/Sb will age harden quenched or not.

Rick

[lwknight]

There are still a lot of people that believe arsenic is a hardener and that it is required for heat treating boolits. I think I may have found the roots of this misnomer. I always wondered why arsenic was used in magnum shot. Arsenic speeds up the age hardening of antimonial alloys.
I wondered why the shot makers would care about the rate of hardening. What difference is 1 week vs 6 weeks to harden? Sagacious mentioned arsenic as a surfarface tensioner and that it would make edges rounder. Ah-ha , so arsenic is used in shot to make shot rounder and the expedited hardening is just nice a side affect.

Definately , arsenic is not required for heat treating / quenching lead alloys.

[cbrick]

Definately , arsenic is not required for heat treating / quenching lead alloys.

Correct about arsenic used to make shot "round".

The above qoute from your post should read . . .

Heat treating/quenching lead/antimony alloys.

It is the antimony (Sb) that enables your alloy to harden by quenching or oven HT. Arsenic multiply's the effect of the Sb.

Rick

[lwknight]

One thing for sure , the way I was taught grammer and the way I think just don't jibe.
I know what I meant. It just does not translate through the keyboard very well.

[cbrick]

Hhmmm . . . Not a slam. Just a clarification.

Rick

[lwknight]

No offense taken. I was just acknowledging that I have a problem with my thinking
not coming through the keyboard in tact.

[sqlbullet]

Definately , arsenic is not required for heat treating / quenching lead alloys.

I knew it wasn't needed to heat treat, but thought it was required to age harden.

Thank you for the clarification. I appreciate being corrected:). First thing I did was went to the LASC site because I thought that was where I had gained that information. In hindsight, I imagine I read one of the incorrect threads here, and from that point on read other information with a pre-formed opinion that caused me to ignore or mis-read the correct information.

My dad always said you had to hit me with a 2X4 before I would listen.

[onondaga]

The way I manage my lead is pretty sensible but it takes a little time. I have a Lee hardness tester. Ingots can be put right in the press and tested. After I smelt ingots from whatever I have, I put them aside for one week then test them and scrape the BH number right on the ingot. Yes--each one!

[WILCO]

What should I do with it? Melt it all in one pot and cast ingots?

Keep it stored in lots and melt/blend as needed. I keep mine as WW, gun range, x-ray, misc./unknown, lino type. Processed ingots go on shelves marked accordingly and ready to use. It's been mentioned before, lead/ shooting needs change in time. Stay flexible.

[WILCO]

I was just acknowledging that I have a problem.....

Sounds like the beginning of a twelve step program. :kidding:

[HighRoad]

Ok so I have ingots from clip-on WWs and stick-on WWs.
I understand that for my bullet applications (less than 900fps) I can simply cast from the clip-on WWs.
How do I alloy the stick-on WW ingots to use for the same application?

[evan price]

Ok so I have ingots from clip-on WWs and stick-on WWs.
I understand that for my bullet applications (less than 900fps) I can simply cast from the clip-on WWs.
How do I alloy the stick-on WW ingots to use for the same application?

Depends on what you are shooting them in. If you are talking general pistol bullets, mix it 1:1 soft lead and WW alloy, then water drop them. Should be just fine.

[onondaga]

I'm not just trying to be funny, But I take it you don't have an electron microscope to test what is your ingots. So. all you can do is estimate the melting temps. To alloy metals you should melt the higher melting temp metal and add the lower melting temp metal to it. So melt the softer more pure stick on lead, flux, then add the clip on lead that melts at a lower temp because of the tin in it. Stir well till all is fluid and flux. Half each makes a common pistol alloy.