Whattaya Think ???

[GP100man]

I put the GC on this 311314 in a .314 sizre die but I could pop it off rather easily so & installed my .310 sizer die but for some reason I put the chore off & had a flat top punch , well when I pulled the handle down I put a flat point on the 311413 & I thought WOW I bet that`ll work in the marlin !!!!

So whattaya think ????

http://i746.photobucket.com/albums/xx110/GP100man/102_0410.jpg

[lwknight]

Can you consistantly repeat it?
I would think that would be important.

[sqlbullet]

If you can do it pull after pull, as LW suggests, then that would be very nice.

[GP100man]

I believe I could fashion a stop , I did `bout 10 & they were within .015 just by feel .

The tip feels soft then titens up qwik !!!

Wonder if the tip will blow off due to work hardening ?????

[runfiverun]

lead work softens.

[Bret4207]

That's more or less what we used to call "bumping". We did it to get a fatter boolit. It can be done pretty uniformly with a stop. Measure the boolits and see how much girth your nose gained and where. Usually they shoot better than un-bumped if they are uniform. You fatten the nose and move the CG rearward. Theory is it'll also collapse any voids, but I think that's an iffy thing.

[JonB_in_Glencoe]

I'm a noobie, which makes this statement just a guess.
I'd be worried about the concentricness of each boolit nose being different from others that were "bumped", making a batch of boolits with non-uniform noses, and such, making fliers.
It probably wouldn't be noticable at typical pistol shooting distances.
Jon

[Calamity Jake]

I put the GC on this 311314 in a .314 sizre die but I could pop it off rather easily so & installed my .310 sizer die but for some reason I put the chore off & had a flat top punch , well when I pulled the handle down I put a flat point on the 311413 & I thought WOW I bet that`ll work in the marlin !!!!

So whattaya think ????

http://i746.photobucket.com/albums/xx110/GP100man/102_0410.jpg


Is that a ring of lead just in front of the GC? Shouldn't be there and is not a good thing

[GP100man]

CJ

I did these `bout a month ago & the CR shank just a tad or the lube oozed up the boolit on the up stroke , It`s amazin what macro settin will show on a pic !!!!

The nose grew .0015 & rollin em on glass they look coencentric .

[fryboy]

i have the same mold , never tried this tho .... but i do wonder if perhaps they will help this boolit at faster velocities ? mine are exceptionally accurate at rather low velocities but seems that when i drive it faster than about 13-1500 fps it went to hades in a handbasket and rather quickly , it ends up looking alot like the 311413 castings lolz

[Bret4207]

I'm a noobie, which makes this statement just a guess.
I'd be worried about the concentricness of each boolit nose being different from others that were "bumped", making a batch of boolits with non-uniform noses, and such, making fliers.
It probably wouldn't be noticable at typical pistol shooting distances.
Jon

Then start worrying about the concentricity of all your boolits. The chances of your sizer producing perfectly concentric and truly round boolits is slim to none. But the variation is small and since we're subjecting our boolits to pressures which mangle then to an extent no matter how "soft" the launch, we rely on the barrel to do the final sizing. With that in mind consider that the boolit is within the sizer die and the nose supported to an extent by the TP. Uniform (at least as close as we can come) pressure will give us fairly uniform expansion within the die, By using a stop we can limit the expansion, that's about as good as we can do with home reloading equipment. If you can find old Fouling Shot and Precision Shooting mags from the early 80's I believe you'll find reference to bumping to achieve record setting groups.

Take a look at the old "pound dies" they used back in the late 1800's. You put a lead slug in a die, put the TP in place and whaled away with a sledge hammer till the TP hit the die body. Same principal as any die press. They shot leetle teeny groups at 1000 and 1200 yards with those things.

[reloader28]

I did the same thing with a few of my different boolits to make a flat nose on some and more of a flat nose on others. Aint done much testing with them as I've been working on other boolits, but what I did play with didnt seem to shoot worse but maybe even better.

The one I was really wondering about was my Lyman 257 with the spitzer nose. I forget the number. I aint shot any done this way yet tho. But after drilling off part of the nose with a hollow pointer, they seemed to shoot better.

I cut off and milled down a flat nose universal top punch from an unused top punch and use that on flat nose boolits. It works really good in the lube sizer if you size, lube,check and finish your boolits first, then adjust the sizer die down to the depth you need for your flat nose, then the top punch will bottom out on top of the die and make them a consistant flat nose.:redneck:

I keep a boolit of every configuration I make on a shelf for display, and when I want flat nose boolits, I use the display boolit to set my depth. So far, I aint had any to long that this didnt work.

I hope that makes sense. Its the same as making a dummy round for setting up your reloading dies for a certain bullet length and works very good.

BTW, when I lube, check, size and flat nosed all at the same time, I got crooked boolits. To much pressure. Its way better and consistant to finish everything, then adjust the die and flat nose in my opinion.

[Bret4207]

Reloader, probably the 418 or 388. I've done the same thing trying to use them for hunting. That didn't work out but moving the CG rearward helps with accuracy.

[reloader28]

Yup, the 257 418. I'm only interested in accuracy for that one. Its just my varmint gun.
It would shoot an iffy 1 1/2" @ 100yds as is, but with the nose shortened it went closer to 1". But I only shot about 3 or 4 to see.

[crazy mark]

Is that a ring of lead just in front of the GC? Shouldn't be there and is not a good thing

On my 311414 the GC shank is longer than the GC leaving what you see in the picture. I have done this with several different boolits and had varying degrees of success but yes they should work in a lever gun just fine. I have done that also with flattened pointed boolits.

[gnoahhh]

I'm more concerned about the squareness and flatness of the base than the condition of the nose. Reading "The Bullets Flight From Powder to Target" by Dr. Mann and viewing the experiments recounted therein by Mann and Harry Pope set me straight regarding misshapen bullet noses.

Also, be aware that the strain of lots of bumping in an older Lyman 45 or early 450 (don't know about the newer ones) can lead to rapid wear and breakage in the linkage. We had a lot of that happen when bumping became all the rage in the CBA 30 years ago. As I recall guys were resorting to welding stiffeners onto their linkage and/or making new thicker ones. It's actually a mild form of swaging, a function those tools weren't designed for. It does work however.

[GP100man]

GOT IT !!!!

310 die with a 421 top punch , preloobed & sized the boolits then installed the 421 top punch & adjust the depth !!!

The 421 catches the die rim !!!!

[Mk42gunner]

Frank Marshall wrote about doing this to a 311284 for a hunting bullet, IIRC he used a Savage bolt action .30-30. His article is reprinted in the Lyman Cast Bullet Handbook, it is alsoon the CBA website.

I have played around putting flatpoints on the Lee 312-185 for use in a Marlin 336, it seems to work.

GP100man, I really like your idea of using a 421 top punch; it gives the flat point and a positive stop all in one.

Robert

[MtGun44]

Great idea. No matter what any of us THINK will happen -- take some of those
good looking "311413F"s out to the range and have Mr. Target tell the truth about
them. ;-)

Please report back, I have had good results with moderate loads with 311413 and would
like to do this myself. My biggest question is whether they are bumped up in diameter
enough to cause problems chambering. I think it is unlikey, but only testing will tell.

Bill

[shootingbuff]

Very interested to hear of your results as well.

sb