More pulldown burn rate results

[singleshotbuff]

Gentlemen,

As I mentioned in a previous thread (titled "Ok, help me out with burning rate), I've been experimenting with pulldown powder from surplus 7.62X54R ammo. My intial experiments and calculations led me to believe that this particular lot of this particular powder had a burning rate very similar to IMR-4320. At least in the 7.62X54R cartridge. Just to confirm this, I was advised by others (namely Felix) to try this powder in another cartridge. I did this today and now feel completely safe using IMR-4320 starting data with this powder.

I loaded 46.0grs of this powder in my 8X57mm. Using a Wincherster case, a WLR primer and a 198gr FMJ BT bullet. Then I ran this load over the chronograph. It produced:

2421 f.p.s. average
9.8 standard deviation

The same case/primer/bullet with 46.0grs of IMR-4320 produced:

2401 f.p.s. average
26.3 standard deviation

I plan to continue use of this powder with IMR-4320 starting data since I have quite a bit of this ammo on hand and it's corrosive and I like to shoot before work which doesn't always allow me to clean the gun. If I change to another lot of ammo, that would require a rework of the data however.

Hope someone else finds this of use as far as reusing a pulldown powder. Surplus powders may be drying up a bit, but surplus corrosive ammo seems plentiful. This may be an alternate source for cheap powder.

SSB

[sjohnson]

singleshotbuff - the primers of that 7.62x54r make it corrosive. The powder is non-corrosive, as is most any modern smokeless powder.

Which milsurp did you use? (Czech silvertip, albanian, ??)

Congrats on your first pull-down workup! Take normal care if/when you approach max loads, it's still a bit of unknown territory, and more so than normal max load workup. Ideally you want chrono matches for all ranges of "4320" loads.

I just bought 4 jugs of 7383 so won't need to do my own pull-down (not yet anyway).

[Ricochet]

There's no need to pull it down, anyway. Stuff shoots just fine. Clean the rifle just as you would a blackpowder rfile, ASAP after shooting, and it'll be fine.

[Buckshot]

...............singleshotbuff, good report and thanls for the data. I don't think you can get a whole lot closer to 4320 data then that. It probably varies that much between lots!

They had surplus IMR4198 a couple years ago. At least they were CALLING it IMR4198. Since I like 4198 I bought 32 lbs of it. I did my normal routine which is load a minimum book charge and used a light bullet in a strong rifle (my M77 Ruger 30-06). The shot was a dull thud kinda sound and I had to check that the slug cleared the muzzle.

So I loaded normal 4198 type loads and over the chronograph they were SLOW. I loaded some comparison loads with IMR3031 load for load and the 3031 was faster! I had some H4895 on hand and loaded THAT load for load with the so called 4198. The surplus 4198 was just maybe 30 fps faster then the H4895 was!
That's about one grains' velocity difference.

That surplus can be funny. Whay they ever called it 4198 I'll never know.

...............Buckshot

[singleshotbuff]

sjohnson,

The ammo is yellow tip heavy ball, 198gr. I'd have to look at the can to see where it's from.

Ricochet,

The ammo does shoot "ok" out of my M44, the reloads seem to shoot better. Plus, I shoot before work several days a week and am not always able to clean ASAP.

SSB

[jballs918]

well guys you have me interested now i looked and i can use this powder for 223. so that makes me wonder if i could get some cheap powder for plinking

[singleshotbuff]

jballs,

I also have a 223 that is hungry. I'll be trying this powder in it soon. Maybe this weekend.

SSB

[jballs918]

please give me a report, this may be a option for me

[jballs918]

i went out tonight and started looking into what you were talking about and i found that the light czeck ball, 147 gr bullet had just around 50 grains of powder. that comes out to about 5.7 pounds of powder. now with the price of the imr 4320 would be just at 126 with haz fee. if i recall the shipping was 34 for a 800 round crate of the stuff. now that would be right at 105. so you save the 20 bucks plus what ever you can get for the scrap brass and copper. not to mention the lead from the bullets. now that may not be much but i think all in all that its not a bad deal. maybe alot of work but i bet you would save about 30 bucks. now the question is is the czeck light ball the same your close powder

[singleshotbuff]

jballs,

There is no way to know if it's the same powder, each lot of ammo has to be treated differently. Please read my reply to your post "breaking down ammo".
You can also PM me if you'd like a detailed report of how I did the work up from start to finish.

SSB

[trooperdan]

Jballs, since you are near J&G I'd give them a call. Too bad you missed the surplus they sold a couple of months ago for about three cents a round!

If J&G doesn't have surplus Turk 8x57 (I think they are out), I'd look to Century for brass-cased yugo 8x57. Century charges $12.50 shipping as long as the order is over $75. Your best best would be to avoid the steel case ammo and don't think about salvaging the lead from the boolits; sell them or use them as is. At the current rate for scrap yellow brass, each case is worth a couple of cents... IF (that is a big IF) your local scrap yard doesn't turn white when you mention scrap small ams brass! The only two ways to kill the primer is to shoot it or heat it in a popping furnace.

[jballs918]

i have read that wd40 will kill them is this a myth or i guess i will be doing alot of primer shoting

[trooperdan]

WD40 is a myth! And it would severly upset the scrap yard if primers started popping in the brass you told them was clean! :)

Heck, pull them down, reload with the same slug and about a half charge and shoot them up! You can get a cheap 7.62x54R for about $75 and only a bit more than that for a fairly good 8MM mauser. You can gain nearly 25 grains of powder plus the scrap value of the brass!