Could this have a use for lube?

[MtJerry]

I found a bottle of this stuff in the local hardware store (ACE) here in town and I instantly thought it might be a source of materials for lube.

It is a blend of beeswax, carnuba and orange oil.

Take a look at it and tell me what you think.

http://howardproducts.com/feednwax.htm

[357maximum]

Both that and the citrus seal look interesting....do not know till you try. I use all three listed ingredients,,so maybe it will work, it might get "INTERESTING" if there is much water content, but it does not sound like there is..try it...if I would have seen it early on,,I would have..

Michael

[MtJerry]

I just sent them an e-mail asking that very question. I let ya know what I hear.

[44man]

I would worry about citric acid on steel and brass.

[StarMetal]

I agree with 44man, I believe orange oil is acidic too.

Joe

[versifier]

Buffer it with sodium hydroxide or even sodium bicarbonate.

[StarMetal]

Why even use it if you have to buffer it. The chemical in orange is Limonene, I'm not sure but I think it has something to do with the peroxide family, and benzine too. Something about the longer it sets and decays the more acidic it becomes.

If someone does come up with a miracle perfect lube, I think they should name it The Edison Lube, after Thomas Edison, and the reason being that Edison, and his staff, literally tried thousands of material for a light bult filament before they stumbled on tungsen. Seems to be the same with alot of members on this forum wanting to throw everything into the lube but the kitchen sink.


44man said he hasn't found Alox anything to lube good. I disagree. I shot strictly Javelina for centuries before trying something different. Buckshot is another big Javelina fan. I'm back to the 50/50 alox lube. I have played with some specialized greases and beeswax and they were pretty good. I just mixed up another batch last night. These are in the family that the NRA experimented with, so it's not like the kitchen sink scenario I described above.


Joe

[357maximum]

When you burn smokeless powders...what do you get Ph wise?

now what happens when it happens over a bed of veeerrrryyyy slight very weak acid????


Check the PH of most bore cleaners lately?


Do you think I would put it in $400.00+ barrels without testing it on bare metals in high humiddity extensively.?...the orange oil,,,more than anything is an oil,, it will not..I repeat NOT harm steel...

Now salt...IE lard and crisco type lubes,,,that I would not do,,unless it was a bp lube,,because then they are there anyway...


as far as alox, yes it does work for the most part if it is stiff enough....I just do not like working with the bottom of a crude oil barrel made into soap...

My dimes worth..
Michael

[MtJerry]

I just got an e-mail from them. They say there is NO WATER in the product, but it only contains -+20% beeswax.

Hmmmmm ... I dunno ... I don't know enough about this area. Any ideas?

[357maximum]

I just got an e-mail from them. They say there is NO WATER in the product, but it only contains -+20% beeswax.

Hmmmmm ... I dunno ... I don't know enough about this area. Any ideas?


+ or _ 20%... Skip, it and buy the pure forms of what you require...this will make your recipes more repeatable also,,as I am sure of the market products do have some variations...lot to lot..

[357maximum]

Jerry

Here is a simple lube for you to try..If the orange oil scares you..

it shouldn't, as the ingredients all cancel themselves out PH wise in Mikes' Magical Mstery Lube, but in case it does.....

Mikes' Domestic Lube

2 Lb. raw yellow beeswax
2 TBLSP Coconut oil (bigger grocery stores)
2 TBLSP Liquid lanolin (hippie health food store)
2 TBLSP Johnsons' Paste Wax (hardware store)
1 - 3/4 oz Yaley candle dye block (optional)
No kitchen sinks...

I have only done minimal testing with it, the few people that have tried it like it..and it has been pushed to over 2200 fps. It is a mid range lube as far as hardness goes..

Michael

[MtJerry]

Mike, at this point I don't know enough about lubes to be scared of anything :mrgreen:

Thanks for the recipe. I'll give it a whirl.

[krag35]

I have never thought of it for boolit lube, but it makes a GREAT stock finish. Start with bare wood and slop it on, set by the stove until it is absorbed then repeat until it won't soak up anymore. It's dang near waterproof and scratch repair is a breeze, just dab some on the scratch and buff it in.
krag35

[StarMetal]

Michael,

Now if you would have put in the kitchen sinnk that lube of yours would have been suitable for even the old tank rounds that were fired out of the old rifled barrels, cast for practice round that is. [smilie=1:

I just recently had made some 50/50 lubes from two kinds of alox from Lubrizol themselves (not that Lee snot stuff). One is the 350 the other that 606 stuff. Well being they are so similar I got confused which was which, BUT I can say this. One come out just like Javelina (slightly different smell) but the other is too soft at the 50/50 ratio. So, I had some of my other kitchen sink, garage lubes, basement oils, exotic greases, earthworm slime lubes setting around in a few different high dollar Campbell soup vessels....and I just blended them all in one big can along with that too soft 50/50. Boy an interesting lube. This stuff even had my famour Bubblegum lube as Bass Ackwards calls it. Yes, yes, yes, I know...yall wondering what's with this nut to accuse us of mixing everything but the kitchen sink when he does the samething. Yup, well......I reckon I'm a "gun nut" like the rest of you. :roll:

Joe

[357maximum]

Michael,

Now if you would have put in the kitchen sinnk that lube of yours would have been suitable for even the old tank rounds that were fired out of the old rifled barrels, cast for practice round that is. [smilie=1:

I just recently had made some 50/50 lubes from two kinds of alox from Lubrizol themselves (not that Lee snot stuff). One is the 350 the other that 606 stuff. Well being they are so similar I got confused which was which, BUT I can say this. One come out just like Javelina (slightly different smell) but the other is too soft at the 50/50 ratio. So, I had some of my other kitchen sink, garage lubes, basement oils, exotic greases, earthworm slime lubes setting around in a few different high dollar Campbell soup vessels....and I just blended them all in one big can along with that too soft 50/50. Boy an interesting lube. This stuff even had my famour Bubblegum lube as Bass Ackwards calls it. Yes, yes, yes, I know...yall wondering what's with this nut to accuse us of mixing everything but the kitchen sink when he does the samething. Yup, well......I reckon I'm a "gun nut" like the rest of you. :roll:

Joe




Joe
I have done the same thing...mine come out BLACK as coal, from all the coloring getting married together.. It actually makes a decent lube, and with a little more wax, would make an even better lube,,When I get it all fixed(mo bwax) I will have enough to last me several lifetimes...

The only problem I have ever had with the 50/50 mixes is that they are just a tad too soft,,I like a 60/40 or 75/25 mix alot better,,and it WILL work in sane loads quite well, but a man just has to play. I have even been making some hand creme for my father in law,,he claims it cured his psoriasis,,it looks like it may have...you do not have to be a NUT to do all this mixing of waxes and oils,,,a good case of the curious will do...

I'll Just use my perfected red mix for everything demanding, and the coal lube for everything less potent...I still have a bunch of my good ol Red Magical Mystery Lube, and it has been superb for anything I have done all the way up to the 35 whelen. Mikes magical mystery lube will work without the orange oil,,if you are afraid of it, by the way...it just is a little basic, and not as well balanced..

Lube is not alchemy,,,a base of GOOD wax, some slickum, and some stickum, and maybe a special ingredient for handling purposes or shooting conditions...WHAMO...lube.

The preceding has been my opinion, and if you must dissagree with me... be forewarned...I really do not care.....



Michael

[StarMetal]

My big mix came out brownish red. Good consistancy too. I just filled the sizer up with some other lube so might be awhile before I test it.

joe

[357maximum]

I do all my testing by panlube..cleaning out a sizer is not a favorable thing to do.

[44man]

Joe, be very careful! I had a pile of different BPCR lubes and melted them into one huge cake. I gave most to my buddy and the stuff turned into the best lube ever. I can't duplicate it at all and have been crying in my beer ever since.
And, I don't know why I never had luck with Alox unless it is the loads I use. I know some guys love it but I hate it. Just one of those things and is the reason I never tell anyone it is no good, just try to explain why I can't use it, which I can't, really. I never figured out the glamour of Alox, it is just a grease that burns in the barrel, stinks and makes smoke. Close to using gasoline to thin your wax! It is not the perfect lube and only works under certain conditions. No thanks, Felix lube does all I want at any velocity with no problems. Lar's carnauba red is a fantastic lube, Why would I step back into the stone age?

[StarMetal]

44man,

Yeah but isn't Lars lube just 50/50 with the carnauba wax added? Me and Buckshot have gotten Javeline, which is 50/50 up to some impressive velocities before it gave up the ghost. I haven't found any of the pistol/revolvers, that I shoot, that could beat 50/50. I've tried Felix lube and in all honesty haven't found anything that it can do that 50/50 can do, except that 50/50 is alot easier to make. I tell ya, I sure as heck wouldn't be shooting 50/50 for over 30 yrs if it didn't work. I'm sure you read the NRA Cast Bullet book. They tested a whole wide range of concoction, some very similar to the stuff we mix up here, and concluded that 50/50 overall was the best. I hear alot of fellows complain about it being too soft. Well I lived a stretch in Oklahoma and I can tell you it doesn't get much hotter then the summers they have there and I had nary a problem with 50/50.

You know what I should do. When I did that test with my 7mm-08 for Dan's 200,000 rpm contest, I used a lube of my own concoction. I couldn't have asked for better bore conditions. I should duplicate the load, except change the lube to 50/50 and see what happens. I'll work on that.

I don't know what is happening with you, but alot of shooters use 50/50. The 50/50 lubes still have a big share of the commercial lube market, it can't be as bad as you say, and on the other hand it can't be as good as I say. So it's somewhere inbetween, which isn't so bad.

Joe

[Ricochet]

Liquid Alox smells great!

[lar45]

Hi all.
The Carnauba Red does not have any Alox in it at all. It is 100% Non-Toxic.

I am mixing a BAC lube now(by request) that is half and half 50-50 lube and Carnauba Red.

Somewhere in all my reading of lube stuff, I found one reference that said the old Alox 2138F had more wax in it than the Alox 350. So mix more beeswax in until the consistency feels right.
I have mixed up to 4:1 beeswax Alox 350 and it shot fine up around 2300fps. I didn't spend much time on it, just to see where things would go.

The stuff in mention at the top of the thread does look pretty interesting. I think you could stiffen it up with lots of beeswax and come up with a pretty good lube.
How much does it cost for what size container?
Maybe start with 1/4 cup of the stuff and add an equal amount of beeswax, then add small amounts mixing and checking until you get a nice stiff, but still pliable lube when cooled.

and that's my 2 cents worth. :)

[montana_charlie]

A few months ago I bought my first luber/sizer, and it was a Lyman #45 which had been unused for (call it) 'a long time'. It was half full of a black-colored substance which resembled asphalt. In areas where it had been slopped on the outside of the tool, it could barely be dug off with a screwdriver. And, (lucky me) there was a brand new stick of the stuff included in the (original) box that the tool came in.

Well, I couldn't use the dies and punches that it came with, so I sold them to a forum member, and happly gave him that new stick of lube(?).

I disassembled the tool and boiled the main body until the top of the pot resembled the La Brea Tar Pits. Then I baked the thing to dry it out, but managed to get another blob of 'hiway patch' in the bottom of my wife's oven. (Don't try this at home...)

I initially bought five sticks of SPG to lube BPCR bullets. I'm into my third stick, and it is just now starting to come out the same color as when it goes into the tool...but there are still enough traces of 'dinosaur oil' to produce some 'browning' at times.

But to my point...

When I bought those first five sticks of SPG I knew I wanted to find a different lube. Twenty bucks for enough 'wax' to fill a coffee cup just didn't seem reasonable.

So...before I even lubed my first bullet, I made up some 'home-made' stuff just to see how it compared...texture-wise...with SPG. It came out very similar, melts at 145 degrees instead of 135, and costs something like seven bucks a pound (maybe).

It is a 50/50 mix of regular grade beeswax and Camp Dry Beeswax Waterproofer, made by Kiwi, and sold by Ace Hardware (and other places). A 7 ounce jar cost about six dollars.
I get BW for $3/pound, so half of that is about right to mix with a full jar of the Camp Dry stuff.
The only listed ingredients are beeswax and lanolin, and the consistency is similar to Crisco.

To get a half & half mixture I melted BW in a glass measuring cup (which was sitting in a pan of water) till I had predetermined amount of liquid. Then spooned in enough Camp Dry to double the level in the cup.

I didn't make very much for my little test, and I haven't used any yet, but it might be worth considering...if you like to start with a commercial product to produce a bullet lube.

http://www.acehardware.com/product/index.jsp?productId=1419436&cp=&origkw=Camp+Dry&kw=camp+dry&parentPage=search&searchId=18682640542
CM