Two New York State Militia Rolling Blocks

[Ron B.]

Sunday
Oct. 10, 2010

It’s getting colder, here in the Rockies.
West of us, at higher elevations it snowed.
Last night, it dipped down below freezing for the first time this fall.

Yesterday, I met Mike in Colorado Springs; picking up a Springfield Rolling Block he had for sale. I’d just left Angela, holding on to a Springfield Trapdoor, her boyfriend Larry bought from me off CB’s site. My new old rifle is what some refer to as being the New York State Militia Model. My other one, just like it is no longer lonely. It’s surprising how accurate these old guns can be. After warming up both barrels, I did a ten shot group from each one, using the same target. I’m shooting my 50-70 caliber reloads, made up of 14 gns Trail Boss, pushing a 425 gn Saeco Mould bullet, averaging 1070 fps. Shame shame, my target’s only 40 yards away. Blame it on getting to be an old man. I had two tumblers; one out of each rifle. I guess I need to figure out what causes that. Still, considering the age and condition of both rifles, I thought the shoot was a success. Did I mention, I love anything resembling a rolling block?

Thanks for your interest,
Ron

Snow In The Rockies
http://i295.photobucket.com/albums/mm126/GoldenRoyBoy/IMG_2321.jpg


Mike's Rolling Block
http://i295.photobucket.com/albums/mm126/GoldenRoyBoy/MikesRoll.jpg

Two New York State Rolling Blocks
http://i295.photobucket.com/albums/mm126/GoldenRoyBoy/2Rolling.jpg

20 Holes
http://i295.photobucket.com/albums/mm126/GoldenRoyBoy/20Holes.jpg

Three Rolling Blocks
http://i295.photobucket.com/albums/mm126/GoldenRoyBoy/3Rollings.jpg

[StrawHat]

I like the 50-70 but have yet to find a NY RB that I can afford. Yours look good and I envy your good fortune in finding two of them. The pistol is neat also.

Glad to hear Trial Boss has worked for you. I have never tried it staying with black powder for my trapdoor. Not sure why you are getting tumbling bullets, perhaps the fps needs to be upped a bit.

Eventually, I hope to find a rolling block. (Actually I have a RB action and a 50 caliber barrel but neither the time nor the $$ to have them mated.)

[bob208]

i have a few r-b's. a really nice like almost unfired 1901 7mm. a 50-70 army springfeld, and a smokless action with a numrich 45-70 barrel it is a real shooter. i also have 3 actions i want to make into something.

[Ron B.]

Morning Guys!
Yes, the old black powder cartridges are a whoop of fun. Personally, I find reloading the bottlenecks a pain. Plus, I don't like using gas checks, as they can tear up a fine chrony.

That tumbling.
I have found it's a common occurance in these old guns. What works in one, may not necessarily work in another. Not inclined to hunt, or compete, as long as most of my bullets hit target, I'm happy. Regarding these two RBs, I suspect I need a heavier bullet. Or, I need to increase my cast bullet's diameter. Problem is, I have only found a .510 resizing die (Lyman-Lee). I may need to consider having one or two customed made? Lyman's 48th Edition handbook shows their load data using a .511 size.

These old Rolling Blocks can be pricey. However, neither of mine have much collector value; so, I got them both fairly cheap. One appears to have a "pee" bluing finish. The other, someone wire-brushed all the patina off, scratching the metal, and the wood. Over time, with plenty of hand polishing it may heal itself; though doubtful. Now, that pistol's a different story. I got very lucky on that one; it's untouched as far as I can tell. :bigsmyl2:

Keep your powder dry,
Ron

[StrawHat]

A sizing die can be enlarged a bit to achieve what you want. Buckshot and other can chime in to tell more about the process. I have polished one to a larger size, it took a lot of time but my time is cheap.

I have two bullet molds for the 50-70, the Lyman 515141 and the Lee 515-450. Both throw 450ish grain boolits and work in my Trapdoor. I think they might work for you also. Neither is hard to find but not necessarily common. I cast 30-1 and it works for me. Giving some thought to paper patching but if it ain't broke...

Slug the bores and adapt the mold as required. You know the drill!

[Ron B.]

Morning StrawHat!
Yes, I've heard of people modifying their sizing dies. Personally, with my lack of knowledge, and equipment I wouldn't attempt it.

Slugging the bore's always a good idea, and I will most likely do that later today.

About those resizing dies, I'm planning on getting a .511 and .512 custom made for my Saeco-Redding machine. Of course, the barrel slugs may lead me in another direction.

Are you shooting black powder?
I've never tried paper patching; guilty of your line of reasoning as well. :)

Thanks,
Ron

[casterofboolits]

Heck with the rifles! How does the pistol shoot and what do you use to load for it?

I always intended to buy one of the repro pistols way back when, but never got around to it. Did get one of the rollers in 22 Hornet.

[NickSS]

I have several trapdoor 50-70s and have owned two RB in that caliber as well one carbine and one NYM Musket. The carbine was a good shooter but I sold it so I could get another high wall. The NYM musket was accurate but shoot exactly one foot to the right at 100 yards and two Feet to the right at 200 yards so I sold it to a collector who did not care that it shot to the right. I love the 50-70 cartridge and used my 1866 Springfield to shoot a cow buffalo two years ago in Wyoming. I wanted to do it like Buffalo Bill did it and I must say that the old Springfield did the trick loaded with a lyman 450 gr slug over 70 gr of FFG Goex. I need to size my bullets .515 for the old muskets so bought a special sizing die from BACO amd it works great. By the way my bullet cast 30-1 went klean through the buffalo and she only went about 30 feet after I shot her at a range of 125 paces.

[Ron B.]

Good morning from S. Colorado!

Casterof boolits!
Yes, the RB pistol shoots very well. However, these things are known for having very stiff triggers, and mine is no exception. I haven't shot it very much. Ammo is hard to find, and can be very expensive. I actually modified some 425 gn cast bullets I had, after also cutting down some 50-70 brass to specs. Surprisingly, once done the pistol proved very accurate.

NickSS
Sounds like you know how to have fun! I'm no hunter; just a lover of all these things that go boom! Lol! Did you do a slug test to determine you needed a .515 bullet? I wonder if you bore is consistent with that diameter from end to end? How would one determine that?

Thanks,
Ron

[John Boy]

Here's what a mint bore 50-70 RRB Musket will do at 1000 yds with 450gr bullet and 70grs of Fg...

http://i222.photobucket.com/albums/dd220/Meadowmucker/Ridgway%20May%202009/50-70%20Rolling%20Block/IMGP0220.jpg

My Infamous Miss on the 1000 yd target! The spinner was sitting about 3 ft away from the NRA target. Spotter said the spinner was doing about a 100 mph

The 50-70 was a 2 part contract to the MI Militia

[enfield]

I have a U.S.N 50-70 R.B, the barrel had been cut down , I'm at work now but I believe it was made by springfield. do all the 50-70 R.B's have the large 3 groove rifling ? it looks like a Snider barrel. the extractor is missing and I can't tell if it is a bar type or a pivoting type ? any ideas wich style these came with ?

[onondaga]

Tumbling is caused by gas blow by or a nick at the muzzle crown causing an uneven gas blow by at bullet exit. This can be caused by a nick at the bullet base, undersized bullets or too high pressure for the strength of the alloy. You had only 2 tumblers so I would say nicked bullet bases. The velocity you mention suggests you should use the softest lead alloy you can get. 30:1 would be great

[Dan Cash]

Try shooting the bullets as cast. Pan lube is quicker than lubricator/sizer and the bore will make them round.

[45bpcr]

I just put these pics up on "another " site with questions about it being a NY roller.

It is a 50-70 as per chamber cast.
Barrel slugs .518

Besides the markigs you can see the only other ones are a couple of P's stamped on the left side of the barrel and under the barrel near the fore arm block.

I've never seen anything about a NY roller with a buffington sight.

Wonder if it's real?

45bpcr

[bob208]

enfield i just checked my army model has a pivoying extractor. and the 3 grove rifling. the only thing i don't like about it is the safty that lowers the hammer to the half cock when you close the block.

i also have a mint 7mm rolling block. and one with a numrich .45-70 barrel on it it likes 65 gr. 1f with a hard card wad and a greese cookie under a 500 gr bullit. i have 3 other actions to play with.

.50-70 i use the layman 515141 as cast just lubed with 65 gr. 1f that load works in both my army rb any my sharps carbine.

[excess650]

I just put these pics up on "another " site with questions about it being a NY roller.

It is a 50-70 as per chamber cast.
Barrel slugs .518

Besides the markigs you can see the only other ones are a couple of P's stamped on the left side of the barrel and under the barrel near the fore arm block.

I've never seen anything about a NY roller with a buffington sight. The NY State Militia roller predates the Buffington sight by 15(?) years, so the sight was added. The remainder of the rifle looks like others that I've seen. The TALL hammer and both the hammer and block have the shield struck on them. It should drop the hammer to a safety notch when closing the block unless that has been modified.

Wonder if it's real?

45bpcr

I had a NY State roller years ago. The bore was only fair, but it shot very accurately with blackpowder. I tired a light duplex with a small smokeless kicker charge and it cause the boolits to keyhole. I attributed the problem to their slooooooow twist.

[THerbert]

Another thing you may try is a lighter bullet -- if the twist in the barrel is very slow, you may get better performance out of a 325-350 grain bullet. I know the .50-95 Winchester has a 1:60 twist, and will not stabilize a bullet heavier (longer) than about 350 grains.