.308 on Dillon 650 finally

[10mmShooter]

Hey Guys,

FEDex man brought me the my 308 caliber conversion kit for my 650. So finally after practicing on my single stage for about a month, I can now turn out some good rounds on the Dillon. I'm still gonna de-primer and size on my single, but prime, charge and seat on the Dillon(no crimp needed for my M1A)

In the picture you will notice I put one my cherised original Dillon powder measures into in service for my 308 loading its got somewhere near 25,000 rounds on it but(I had retired it since it was a classic), as we Dillon people know the original measures with the springs are superior to the newer updated ones with the stupid cam thingy. I measured 15 charges and I was at 40.1 avg grains of IMR 4895 with an SD of .18 and a extreme spread of .7g which in my book is good for an extruded powder like IMR 4895, the swing is +/- .3g good loading on a progressive, I never shoot beyond 200 yds, so I'll never see the difference.

Total loaded cartridge weight is 388.6 grains average measured with 50 rounds... weight spread was only 385.9 to 390.6, SD of only .9 grains, so I'm very very happy with the consistenctly...but it took a lot of brass prep.

Ah a thing of beauty
Bullet is 168gSMK, LC Brass, CCI#34, and 40.1 g of IMR 4895.


http://www.keithrussell.net/308.jpg

[Triggerhappy]

Very nice. I just set my 650 up for .243 and didn't stop until I'd emptied a box of primers. That's 1K of .243.

[Doc Highwall]

Yoy can use a second tool head for just the sizing die at station 1 and a Lyman M-die at station 2 for cast bullet shooting and then when you go to load them you could put a universal decapping die at station 1 with the powder charge at station 2.

[Lloyd Smale]

most of my 308s loaded progressively are for the ars so i use a small base sizer. I also have a couple bolt guns but to save time i sb size them too so im not switching dies all the time and try to work up loads that will shoot well in all of them so i can kind of standardize on my loading. What i do is keep a tool head with a small base die and a dillon trimmer set on it. I first lube and size and deprime, then reprime and then trim. They then go in a tumbler. While there tumbling i swap in the other tool head that has a powder measure and bullet seating die on it. throw the clean cases back in the case feeder and go to town. I do 308s on a lnl but a 650 would be the same. I use the same routine for .223s. Most all my other bottleneck cases are loaded on a single stage press as i dont shoot more then a couple hundred a year and it seems like im constantly doing load developement for them anyway.,

[dragonrider]

Posted by Lloyd Smale
"then reprime and then trim. They then go in a tumbler"

No problems with media getting stuck in the flash holes???? If not, what media do you use????

[mike in co]

while i normally agree with lloyd..not this time. maybe he has chambers that vary a lot..i don't know.
i only use small base dies on brass that was not fired in one of my ar's.only the first time. after that std dies do the job.....sizie then to fit the smallest chamber and go to town.

if it was my 650...deprime, size, (dillon trimmer if i had one) m die.....then into the tumbler.

when ready to load..a lee universal deprimer in station one if worried about media in the flash hole. prime, powder seat....crimp if desired( i often do a very light "take the m die flare" back out crimp..)

mike in co

[Larry Gibson]

Gotta agree with Mike on SB dies not needed for milsurp spec chambers. SB dies were made for comercial semi-auto and pump guns that didn't have very good primary extraction way back when. Some that recomendation has made its way to use with milsurp semi-autos. I use regualr RCBS X-dies, not the SB ones, and also don't have to trim for '06, .308W(7.62 NATO) and 5.56 NATO gas guns. I've loaded for a lot of each and have never had a problem with regular dies.

I also clean the cases then size and deprime on a single stage Pacific press. I could do it on the 550 but the Pacific press is there. I then tumble the cases in saw dust for 15 minutes to delube then clean the flasholes and inspect the case. I then use a NS die and station 1 which ensures even neck tension and also has the deprime punch to ensure the fash hole is clear. If loading cast on the 550 I use the M-die at station 1 if a crimp is necessary (station 4). If not then the M-die is at station 3 and I set the bullet in the case before rotating the shell plate. Isn't that much different with the 650 except there's more holes for dies so most everything can be done in sequence.

Nice set up and procedure 10mmShooter:-)

larry Gibson

Larry

[10mmShooter]

Agreed...in my case no need for SB dies, I bought a Redding SB die..never needed it.

I lube well with Imperial lube and run through the Redding S-type die with a .336 neck bushing. It handles sizing just fine even with 1x fired LC M-240/M60 brass,

I expect my next sizing wll be much easier since the brass fired from my m1a will not be nearly as swelled up as the brass was coming out of the MGs.

[Lloyd Smale]

Guys my sb die theroy is this. I use mixed brass to load 308 for the ar some comercial some military and God only knows what it is shot in and i have had failures to feed when not using small base dies and have never had a problem using them. I dont know if my ar10 has a tighter then normal chamber or if some brass is just been shot in larger chambers. I guess my thoughts run that an ar is a gun that a guy may depend on to protect his family and reliablility is the most important aspect of loading for one. I just dont see a downside to using a small base die when doing it. I do the same for my .223 ammo that is used in an ar. I again use mixed brass of questionable origins and at least one of my ars has a tight chamber and i dont want ammo laying around that work work in ALL of my ars. I want all of them to work a 100 percent of the time with any ammo i grab not 99pecent of the time. I dont have an ar that doesnt shoot moa or less with sb sized ammo so agian wheres the downside to using a sb die?

as to flashholes being pluged i use walnut media for rifles and have never had a misfire so i doubt the primer flasholes are being pluged and again if they were id expect at least some degrading in accuracy and it isnt showing. My guess would be that with a primer seated flush in the primer pocket its alot less likely that media would ever get stuck in it and if it even did it wouldnt be large enough or stuck in good enough to effect anything.

Im not trying to say i have all the answers just that it works for me and my experince is based on shooting many thousands of rounds of ar ammo a year not a couple hundred. It took alot of fooling around to arrive at a point where i can grab any ammo in the house and completely feel confident it wont let me down and two things ive learned is to get there i needed sb dies and needed to trim cases every time i load. Another thing to keep in mind is what works in your nice clean ar doesnt nessisarily work the same after 500 rounds without cleaning.

[mike in co]

sb die is ok for what you are doing...mixed brass shot you don't know where...
the problem with mixed brass is it does not size all the same with a single die setting..which you have found out.

i dont shoot mixed in anything except the 223(55 fmjbt blasting ammo).....the 308's get select brass....as does the 223 69/75's.


mike in co

[10mmShooter]

good point Lloyd, with mixed brass you have do the SB thing.

since I only have one .308, I super picky about the brass, I even sort my LC by year, and as Mike mentioned the brand and even the production run batchs of brass vary. I individually run each piece of my .308 brass through either my RCBS precison mic or the my Hornady Headspace comparitor after sizing. I try to manage my shoulder set back to + or - .001(its very tricky since even a good single stage like my BigBossII has a bit of slop in the linkage which adds variation to the sizing). On the RCBS PM my target is .000 (1x fired mics at + .003 so I go for .003 under=.000). With the Hornady since it is setup on the a caliper the target is 1.625 inch. Remember both the RCBS and Hornady are headspace comparitors, they compared 1x fired(or brand new) to resized brass and show the difference...some people incorrectly think the readings are actually "real". They are simply before and after measurements, extermely useful in trying to get 100% reliable feeding and good brass life. Always a compremise...absolute realiability means giving up a bit of brass life...for me I can run tolerances a bit tight since I"m not using the weapon for personal protection. I'm hoping to get a solid 5x-6x reloadings before I have to scrap my brass.

[Doc Highwall]

Some of the variation in the sized case head-space measurement is due to the different thickness of the brass and the hardness variation within the lot itself never mind mixed lots.

[derek45]

I Love My XL650

It makes big piles of 308 goodness in a small amount of time. :drinks:

[mike in co]

when you size on your single stage are you "camming over" or atleast topping out the shell holder on the bottom of the die ?

it was once pointed out to get consistant bullet seating, to do the same...so maybe it applies to uniform sizing also.

mike in co

[10mmShooter]

Mike,

Yes the "camming" over is necessary to get proper shoulder push back for my setup. I think most people have to use this technique to get proper sizing.