What press to use?

[zuke]

I have a LEE Classic Cast and an RCBS RCBS Rockchucker Supreme.
What press would be the better to swage 40 cal case's into 45 bullet's?

[Daywalker]

Both will work. I would personally go with the RockChucker. The 45's requires a conciderable amount of force to swell that 40 case to the diameter of the 45. I use the Rock Chucker myself for swaging 44's and 45's.

The only reason I went with the RockChucker is because they were built with swaging in mind as well as reloading. RCBS started out as swaging and adapted their press's for reloading as well over time.

[richbug]

Given what you have I'd use the rockchucker, not because it is superior, but it does have a better warranty. If you swage enough, you will break something.

[MakeMineA10mm]

I'll disagree with Rich mildly, and say that, FOR SWAGING, the Rock Chucker is superior by design. Here's why:

I learned in my first day of swaging that the Classic Cast's handle angle-adjustment bearing can be a weak point in the design. Still haven't taken it apart to check for damage, but it gave way when the bolt loosened from the vibration of me hammering out the bullets from the one-step die...

Now, I traded my old Rockchucker to someone who was starting off reloading, so I don't have it handy anymore, but another thing I liked about the Rockchucker is the linkage set-up gives you maximum force with minimum effort just as the ram goes to the top of it's movement. This is ideal for swaging.

Now, I'm not knocking the Classic Cast. As a single-stage RELOADING press, I think it is superior to the RC, because I like several features, including (especially?) the through-the-ram spent primer catcher. Also, the adjustability of that handle is a neat feature for varying height benches (or lengths of reloaders' arms...).

But for swaging, I think I'll get another Rockchucker to use. IIRC, they also have returned to making them in the USA. (Not saying Lee doesn't. What I'm saying is that for awhile, RCBS had an image problem because their castings were made in China and then finish-machined here. That just gives one pause when pulling the handle to swage a bullet at 30,000psi, that it's a chinese casting... But they're back to a US product, so that worry is gone.)

[zuke]

richbug -should I be concerned about their infeior product?

MakeMineA10mm-I never thought of the adjustable angle socket that way, good point! I'm a LEE guy but your point make's sense.

Thank's for the input guy's.

[richbug]

I'll disagree with Rich mildly, and say that, FOR SWAGING, the Rock Chucker is superior by design. Here's why:

I learned in my first day of swaging that the Classic Cast's handle angle-adjustment bearing can be a weak point in the design. Still haven't taken it apart to check for damage, but it gave way when the bolt loosened from the vibration of me hammering out the bullets from the one-step die...



Not saying the Lee is superior for swaging, just RCBS's warranty is better. I broke the adjustment cylinders on my Lee from not having the handle bolt tight enough. Not their fault at all. One stepping is way more than either press was designed for.

Either will do fine. Use what you have. My dad just picked up a Herters Super 3 for me at the flea market. I may start using it for some purposes as the C frame is easier on my hands.

[MakeMineA10mm]

Sure, I understand Rich. I guess I just left it hanging out there that I implied an agreement with you about the warranty as well, but I didn't say it. I was just adding onto your point. My idea of the mild disagreement is just that I think the linkages and leverage on the RC is a superior design to the Lee for swaging, but as a reloading tool, I like the Lee better. But, so far, all the bullets I've ever swaged have been on the Lee... Not really a disagreement at all, I guess. :drinks:

[elk hunter]

Zuke,

In my experience, most reloading presses don't like to swage bullets much larger than 30 caliber for very long. They aren't made with that kind of pressure in mind. The pressure goes up quickly as the diameter increases. I damaged a Rockchucker, thirty some years ago making less than fifty .458 diameter bullets using copper tubing for jackets. I went to dedicated bullet presses after that.

Just my two cents worth.

[Ickisrulz]

I'm not sure about the entire history of RCBS. I know the founder began by offering a kit to make .224 bullets from .22 cases. I'll bet this was long before the Rock Chucker was offered.

Did RCBS ever offer equipment to make larger bullets than .224? Was the Rock Chucker press ever really intended for swaging? I know the first RCBS presses were much stronger than the smaller Rock Chucker introduced in 1967.

Also, RCBS does presently offer a press on their website which is a Rock Chucker modified for swaging (@$300). This might imply that the Rock Chucker in its standard form is not up to the task.

I know there are quite a few people using Rock Chuckers for swaging with the CH4d dies on this site. But, I wonder how long these presses will last making large diameter bullets out of wheel weights.

Personally I went with the CH4d Champion press since it is claimed to be designed for swaging by the company. It is about twice the cost of the Rock Chucker, but probably worth it.

[Daywalker]

Yes, from some stories I have read while researching, RCBS was originally swaging only. The founder or something to that affect, modified the press for a friend of his to reload on and decided to to sell reloading presses. The Rockchucker is up to the task and RCBS sells the solid rams that they recomend for swaging as you can colapse the shell holder portion on the rockchucker ram for reloading. I will be picking my lathe up tomorrow as it is at the freight office and the first thing I plan to do is turn myself a solid ram for my rockchucker for swaging. I already colapsed my original Ram. I need to call them so I can get a replacement to put up for when I decide to use if for reloading.

I will try to find the article if your interested in how RCBS was formed...

[Ickisrulz]

Yes, from some stories I have read while researching, RCBS was originally swaging only. The founder or something to that affect, modified the press for a friend of his to reload on and decided to to sell reloading presses. The Rockchucker is up to the task and RCBS sells the solid rams that they recomend for swaging as you can colapse the shell holder portion on the rockchucker ram for reloading. I will be picking my lathe up tomorrow as it is at the freight office and the first thing I plan to do is turn myself a solid ram for my rockchucker for swaging. I already colapsed my original Ram. I need to call them so I can get a replacement to put up for when I decide to use if for reloading.

I will try to find the article if your interested in how RCBS was formed...

I'm really not trying to pick a fight here, but you seem to be saying the RC has to be modified to swage successfully and long term.

The Champion press in its current form does not have a cut out for the primer arm in the ram and therefore is much stronger. I've also been told the ram is very hard compared to other presses. If a guy has to buy a RC press and then either fabricate or buy a solid ram, he may be money and time ahead just buying the CH4d press. I know this wasn't the OP question though. But when I found myself in this situation 6 months ago I went with the Champion (I didn't have a RC at that time, but considered it).

[Daywalker]

Who is talking about starting a fight? You have me totally lost here. I was answering the history portion of RCBS. RCBS did start out swaging as you said. They swaged .22's and was shooting Rock Chucks and that is how the press becamed rock chucker. They used the solid rams for swaging and now have the rams with the slot for the shell holder and primer. The solid ram is more for swaging even tho you can use the reloading ram if you like. I swage 45's which takes some pressure. A solid ram does not cost that much if you wanted to purchase one. 70 Bucks I do believe. Turning one on the lathe does not cost that much either.

I am curious tho how you came about this as picking a fight? I did not say anything or written anything that "picking a fight" was warrented in a post....

[Ickisrulz]

Who is talking about starting a fight? You have me totally lost here. I was answering the history portion of RCBS. RCBS did start out swaging as you said. They swaged .22's and was shooting Rock Chucks and that is how the press becamed rock chucker. They used the solid rams for swaging and now have the rams with the slot for the shell holder and primer. The solid ram is more for swaging even tho you can use the reloading ram if you like. I swage 45's which takes some pressure. A solid ram does not cost that much if you wanted to purchase one. 70 Bucks I do believe. Turning one on the lathe does not cost that much either.

I am curious tho how you came about this as picking a fight? I did not say anything or written anything that "picking a fight" was warrented in a post....

No I didn't think you were picking a fight. I just was pointing out that you said the RC was up to the task, but then said you needed a solid ram to do it. I'm not trying to argue and sorry that I came across that way.

[Daywalker]

My appologies as well. These forums are hard to read sometimes. Very easy to be taken out of ummm context (I hope thats right)...

[zuke]

Well I guess it'll be the RCBS.
Like I said I'm a LEE guy and trust their product's impecibly, I'll settle for the RCBS because of it's mechanical advantage.

Thank's guy's for the help! :-P

[a.squibload]

The handle on the Classic Cast is longer than the Rockchucker's, and feels easier to swage with.

Also the Lee linkage can be easily modified by drilling a couple holes to increase leverage.
Haven't drilled mine yet but some here have done it.

[zuke]

The handle on the Classic Cast is longer than the Rockchucker's, and feels easier to swage with.

Also the Lee linkage can be easily modified by drilling a couple holes to increase leverage.
Haven't drilled mine yet but some here have done it.

Can you give me more detail's or a pic even a pic of a drawing?
Sound's good to me.

[gjb]

Well I guess it'll be the RCBS.
Like I said I'm a LEE guy and trust their product's impecibly, I'll settle for the RCBS because of it's mechanical advantage.

Thank's guy's for the help! :-P

I have crushed rams on hand for both lee and the rockchucker I have bent the handle on the lee replaced it with a 26 in peice of A2. The rockchucker ( 1971) has had its share of issues also. Lee is easier to get replacement parts for
For the tough stuff I use an old air over hydraulic

[a.squibload]

Can you give me more detail's or a pic even a pic of a drawing?
Sound's good to me.

Nope, I asked the same thing a while back, don't think I've seen any pics.
I might search in a minute, will post here if I find BT's suggestions.

Basically you remove the link plate bushings with a long skinny punch,
have to go through the hole in one bushing to push out the other.
This requires removing the shell holder part that screws into the top of the ram,
to lower the ram for clearance.
If the new holes are used the ram won't lower as much, so reassembling could be a problem.
Watch how far you move the holes, shouldn't take much to increase the leverage.
I was thinking of drilling both bushings and tapping for bolts, to make removal/replacement easier.
Also be sure to align the holes in the plates, I might just clamp them together for drilling.
And you can be fairly sure the warranty will be compromised!

[a.squibload]

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?t=86328

BT and Aneat have modified theirs.

[Trifocals]

Give a very hard look at Reddings ULTRAMAG press. With it's unique linkage it develops tremendous power. Because the upper end of the links are connected to the die platform, this increases power plus it is virtually impossible to spring or encounter deflection with this press because as the ram exerts upward pressure, the linkage exerts downward pressure. The contra forces nullify springing or deflection. Another great press to consider (if you can find one) is a Hollywood Senior that had provision for a tie rod between the base and the die platform, plus there were holes in the linkage so force could be increased. This press was designed for swaging as well as case forming and reloading.

[Jailer]

If you go with the Lee don't use the handle that comes with it. You WILL bend it.

Replaced mine today with an 18 inch section of 5/8 rod and it made a big difference in leverage. Takes much less effort to swage now than it did with the 14 inch handle that comes with the press.

[zuke]

I'll do some looking in on that.