Breech loaded patched Round Ball

[Shooter]

I have a Lyman 12Ga. RB mould. I am thinking of loading some brass shells with a patch around the ball AKA muzzle loaders. I want to reverse the patch orintation from the muzzle loader.
Anyone tried this?

[GabbyM]

You need , or I should say have to, adjust the patched ball diameter to fit the choke of your barrel. Which is why you'll never see solid round ball for sale over the counter. A solid ball will open up your choke if it's to large. You should be able to push the patched ball through by hand. Weather you use the petals on a shot cup or a patch. Depending upon the fit of ball to choke you may shoot a bare ball or ball in shot cup then perhaps a cloth or paper patch in addition. Whatever fills the choke. Straight rifled bores of course will yield bast accuracy. Frankly I can't imagine why you'd want to use brass shells. Why load the patch backwards? Is there any evidence to show they blow off in the bore? That would surprise me if they did.

[Shooter]

I have a NEI slug gun that is cylinder bore so choke is of no concern. Iwill use brass shells because I have brass shells.
You are probaly right about the patch reversing. It would make the round look neater if the patch were reversed.

[GabbyM]

I'm not a paper patcher so don't know much about it. but for feasibility I suppose you could wrap a wet paper patch around the ball then twist a tail on it. Dry, size, lube or whatever. Insert tail first. Sounds like a lot of work to a lazy guy like me. Only thinkg I can think of to get aclot patch on backwards woudl be to glue the tail on the ball first. Yes the brass shells do have a cool factor.

missionary has writen up some good 12 gage ball loads here if you can find them.

[longbow]

I would be surprised if the patch would stay on the ball during the jump through the forcing cone.

It wouldn't hurt to try though.

What diameter is your 12 ga. ball? There are several diameters often referred to as 12 ga. ~ 0.690", 0.715" and 0.735".

I have loaded and shot quite a few 0.735" balls in my smoothbore and also through a rifled Remington 870. They are a little oversize but there is so little meat at the equator it swages easily.

The best choice would be to slug or mike your bore and order a ball at or maybe a couple thou over bore size. Those would load easily, shoot well and look very nice in brass cartridges. Jeff Tanner in the UK will make a mould of any size for reasonable prices:

http://www.jt-bullet-moulds.co.uk/moulds.htm

Longbow

[Shooter]

The forcing cone jump is one reason I thought the patch might fair better reversed.
My mold is .735. I haven't slugged the NEI its a sighted slug gun with a Cyl. bore barrel.

[longbow]

Why do you want to patch a 0.735" ball?

It is over groove diameter already. Am I missing something?

As mentioned, I have shot quite a few 0.735" balls through my smoothbore and a few through a borrowed rifled Remintgton 870.

Loads through smoothbore worked best for me when the ball was loaded over a hard card wad column. I used the same loads in the rifled gun.

Smoothbore gives about 4" groups at 50 yards and the rifled gun produced a few 2" +/- groups at 50 yards with very limited shooting. These were ACWW.

These were loaded in plastic hulls but I suspect that the 0.735" would work just as well in the thinner brass cartridge naked. That is unless you have checked and they actually drop into the brass cartridge. If so my suggestion is to build a hard card wad column that brings the center of the ball up to just below the case mouth then crimp.

If not then just load them up and shoot!

Longbow

[Nobade]

I think I would try the patch//ball combo in the muzzle to see if it can be loaded. .735" sounds too big, I use a .715" ball and ticking patch in my smoothbore 870 to good effect. Win AA hulls, AA wads with the petals cut off, Blue Dot powder, and the ball in a lubed patch. I crimp the hull over the ball and they feed through the action correctly. Accuracy is surprising considering I don't have anything but the bead front sight. Recoil is also eye opening! Using data in the Lyman handbook for powder charge.

[GabbyM]

O.P. stated he had a Cylinder bore. Don't know how big that would be but my Imp. Cyl. is .725" at the muzzle. My full choke trap gun is .690". So from those numbers it looks like a.735” would not run in an Imp. Cyl. Choke. At least the one I have since dimensions vary. If it were me I take the ramrod from my muzzle loader and if I couldn't push the patch ball combo up and out the bore by had I'd call that to big. I've read of guys running plus .002" for a press fit but I'd have to have a reason for doing so. Even in a rifled barrel I'd want to use cloth patch or plastic shot cup to catch the rifling and keep the ball under bore diameter. Others do it different and that's just fine. A cotton T shirt patch is .030” while a note book paper is .007”. that's two layers measured which is what the patch is. With the .735” ball it wouldn't look like any room for a cloth patch is left. .690 balls will often shoot from shot cups. All I personally shoot is the Lee keyed slug.

[longbow]

Nominal 12 ga. bore is 0.729" so 0.735" is definitely over bore diameter unless it is one sloppy bore.

I believe the "standard" or at least common groove diameter for rifled barrels is 0.727".

While they are oversize, I have had no problems shooting 0.735" balls in my smoothbore with 0.730" bore or in the borrowed Remington rifled gun with 0.727" groove. There is not a lot of lead to swage down at the equator but a better fit would be at or no more than 0.002" over bore diameter for smoothbore or groove diameter for rifled.

There is no choke on these guns and I would not shoot a ball that large through ANY choke constriction.

Proper fitting balls in shotcups can do well out of a smoothbore and loaded in a plastic hull. Shooter's goal is to load into brass cartridges so I do not think the plastic shotcup would be suitable if any sort of crimp were used.

A naked 0.735" ball either tumble lubed or with a lubed wad under it should do just fine. I have had no leaded using either method.