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jeff223
05-16-2005, 12:23 PM
i bought some cast boolits from Cabelas to hold me over until i get my new Lee mold from the group buy im heading.i never shot any cast boolits before just jacketed boolits.these boolits are LBT style boolits from Cast Performance Bullet Company and are a gas checked boolit with a gas check.these are the same boolit that im getting the mold for,a nice 180gr gas checked checked boolit with a big flat nose.

i loaded up some for my 357max 12 inch Contender hand rifle and i started out with 21gr of W296.i seated and crimped the boolit in the crimping grove.when i got to the range i blasted one round into the bank to clear the bore of any oil in the barrel.then i shot a 3 shot group at 50yds.after my first 3 shots i checked the target and i saw a 3 shot group that would measure about 1.75 inchs.on my next 3 shot group i really buckeled down and squezzed the shots off nice and purty.i checked the target and i found a group that was under 1 inch.it was about .75 inch center to center.

i am very happy with the results of the LBT boolits.these boolits are sized at the factory at .358,thats what the box says and are lubed with somekind of blue lube??i dont know what lube they used?

this is what i am thinking so far.when i get my mold all i have to do is make a boolit thats the same as the LBT boolit i got from Cabelas and they should shoot the same.this Lee mold drops a boolit that looks the same and should shoot the same.

what do you think?
i havnt had my barrel slugged yet but it seems to like .358 cast boolits.
would it be save for me to say i need a .358 boolit sizer for my Lee mold boolits?

please and thankyou for reading and helping with my cast boolit adventure
jeff

Willbird
05-16-2005, 12:36 PM
On the Boolit dia. modern theory says to make the boolit fit the throat. If the throat in your TC bbl is like either of the 2 I have owned the "throat" is a long shallow taper.

Veral Smith explains exactly how to best measure the throat of a rifle type chamber. basically you use a soft lead slug hand seated into a case filled with lead, and tap it from the muzzle until it expands to fit the throat.

I would try the boolits unsized first, then try sizing them to throat dia.

Bill

felix
05-16-2005, 01:36 PM
True, Bill, but for a TYPICAL lever gun that boolit will be the very largest that will fit the gun. Best to play around with wadcutters, starting with the very largest size, made from copper solid wire, at various diameters going smaller by half thousands. Objective would be to find the largest (and longest) that will fit all the way from the magazine and into the chamber. ... felix

jeff223
05-16-2005, 01:55 PM
this TC barrel i have is a rechambered 357mag barrel and the throat is not long at all.i got this chamber reamer from leftoverdj and did my own rechamber job.i have heard the standard TC throats are long sometimes very hard to reach the lands in certain calibers.this is not the case with my barrel.my chamber is the way they are suppost be.maybe i got an outstanding barrel as i havnt found a boolit it wont shoot good.of all the jacketed boolits ive shot out of it the Sierra 170gr JHC and the Speer 180 flat nose boolits are the best.the Cast Peformance boolit shoots right in there with the jacketed boolits.thats what im after.i will try some full size boolits first like you said above,it cant hurt anything.

what i am asking?if the .358 Cast Performance boolit shoots good the same boolit cast from a Lee mold should do the same?right?if i size them the same and use the same lube or someting very close to what they used?

Bass Ackward
05-16-2005, 02:21 PM
what i am asking?if the .358 Cast Performance boolit shoots good the same boolit cast from a Lee mold should do the same?right?if i size them the same and use the same lube or someting very close to what they used?

Jeff,

I would bet that if the bullets are similar "in fit" not appearance, so will be the results. If you are satisfied at that level. Is this an absolute? No. There are none in shooting world. Still a lot of guys get Contenders to just eat out a hole at 100 yards. So that would be really small at 50. I think a bigger diameter bullet would get you there with the same load. But that is just a guess unless you try.

Personally, I am not a "choker" either. But I do like .001 to .002 over bore for everything I have shot so far. If it were me and you did not want the trouble of slugging, I would coax my buddy John H into sending some of his bullets sized .359 for a slight fee and repeat that load. You already know how .358 works, right? Then decide.

Rule number one for cast performance: Proof of the taste is in the pudding.

JohnH
05-16-2005, 06:04 PM
I'm gonna do all I can this week to get some bullets in the mail to ya, just been tight lately. Want to send you some of the Lee 180 mold bullet, as well as some of Lee's 158-RF.It is a plain bevel base, that I shoot a bunch of. I've no question that the bullet wil shoot better than me or my rifle.

I was going to suggest that while you are waiting for the 180 mold, as you are gathering up casting stuff to g ahead and get a copy of this mold. Midway has it everyday, as does Midsouth Shooters Supply, and probably Cabelas too. The two cavity Lee ain't the mold I hear their 6 banger is, but I've cast at least 5000 bullets with this mold and it casts as good now as when new. This mold will give you a chance to do some honing on your casting skills so you can begin casting and learning a rythem, and how to judge your results and such.

I've driven the bullet as fast as 1400 fps but it shoots better (at least for me) at about 900 fps. Currently I'm using 4.7 grains of AA#2. Makes a nice plinker to poke holes and play and not wear ya out.

Glad to hear your first results are satisfactory. I would hazard a guess that the lube is LBT Blue or TC Blue Angel, or something very like those, but that's a guess. The mass casters all pretty much use hard lubes like these, they want to stuff to stay where they put it during shipping, and they don't want a big mess if a package is left in a warehouse over the summer. From what I have read, the hard lubes work good at pistol velocities (800-1000 fps) and good at rifle velocities (1400-2000+ fps) but it is mid range loads that will produce leading, from what I have read.

Welcome to the world of cast, be careful you may never go back to them funny full length gas check models.

jeff223
05-16-2005, 11:52 PM
thanks for the responces everyone.

John im very happy with this LBT boolit.i sure hope the Lee boolit from the group buy will shoot as good as the LBT.if it does i wont shoot another jacketed boolit out of my Contender.from the looks of the picture of the Lee boolit i think they are the same.im going to get some gas checks and some mold handles on order.also some Lee alox lube and maybe some other kind too.im trying to learn all that i can about this casting so i am ready when the molds get here.

i would like to keep this kind casting kind of simple.i hope i can just get wheel weights melt them and cast boolits from that lead only.i dont want to add a bunch of other alloys to the lead for my boolits.maybe im not thinking right here but this is what im planning.

im open for any ideas from everyone about this casting.with the help from John and the rest of you i will become a full fledged caster

carpetman
05-16-2005, 11:59 PM
Jeff223---If casting were as simple as you want it to be,everyone would cast their own. You gotta make it difficult and scientific---rocket science and beyond. Here's a secret formula. Mix exact equal parts of free wheel weights with same amount of those you didnt have to pay for and cast away. Now if that's too simple,knock yourself out with more highly specialized blends.

Willbird
05-17-2005, 06:52 AM
I just realised to my chagrin that I have mixed free wheelweights with the ones I paid 10 cents an lb for, and even a bucket I traded a pizza for, what do I do NOW ??

Bill

Bass Ackward
05-17-2005, 07:16 AM
im open for any ideas from everyone about this casting.with the help from John and the rest of you i will become a full fledged caster

Jeff,

Just realize that experience is the best teacher. We can pump your head full of information and the first attempt to pour, I can guarentee you won't remember half of it. You need to actually over come the excitement / fear of that first casting bash. It is there that you want to develop safe casting habits, flux the melt and then start to break in the mold. A great deal of time can be spent on just preparing the mold to perform so it doesn't gall and scratch. Just read the post on Lee menting. If you try to hurry, remember too much, you will lose out.

Actually, I like JohnH's idea about getting a two cavity mold first. Wish I had an old Lee, I'd give it too ya. that's how important I think it is. There is as much to learn about not ruining an aluminum mold by learning how to use it properly than there is learning how to cast. I have some aluminum molds that are going on 30 years old. Some guys can tear them up in just a few pours. It would be a shame to .... possibly ruin a custom mold of a lifetime that can not be replaced.

John

Willbird
05-17-2005, 09:10 AM
I have been slinging a 4 cavity saeco, and a couple 6cyl lees for the last couple months, I went to run a few from a 2 cavity LEE and it felt like a toy hehe. for a moment I considered getting out my zircon encrusted tweezers to work that little itty bitty sprueplate.

Bill

454PB
05-17-2005, 04:57 PM
Let me get this straight......you plan to keep casting simple?

Good luck with that!

Junior1942
05-17-2005, 05:57 PM
Jeff, I use two Lee 10 lb pots. One contains ww alloy for my 357 mag and 30-30 rifles, and the other one contains pure lead for 45-70 BPCR and muzzleloader casting. That way, there's never a problem swapping alloys.

Slowpoke
05-18-2005, 02:10 AM
[QUOTE=jeff223]i bought some cast boolits from Cabelas to hold me over until i get my new Lee mold from the group buy im heading.)


Jeff

Where to begin?

I have a 10 in. TC that has been rechambered with the same reamer as yours, by the owner of said reamer. That has to be one of the most well traveled and used reamer's around. Amazing to me!!

Long story short, I have not found a medium heavy GC bullet of .359 dia.(.360 is to big,won't chamber) that doesn't shoot excellent with 16 gr. of WC 820, this includes the RCBS 180 and 200 gr., Lyman 315, LBT 180, Lars Lee group buy 180. 16 gr. is my self imposed limit of wrist abuse.

I water drop just about everything, even plain lead, I like things simple. Think soft landing, no frills, no mess to clean up !

If my memory is rite those C-P bullets are around 18-21 BHN, and that is what I average with WW alloy when water dropping.

You don't need any expansion with that LBT style bullet, it kills very well as is, that is its sole reason for being.

Why would you have someone else slug your barrel? It is really easy, more so with a TC.

A couple good reads are LBT's little blue book, RCBS cast bullet book (out of print) , Lee's second edition modern reloading, and I guess the Lyman # 3. I would rank them as listed.

Did you measure those C-P bullets, maybe they were actually .3585 or .3576, you will never know unless you measure them. :) How about Lars drawing against the C-P bullets. :)

Good luck

jeff223
05-18-2005, 09:30 AM
i havnt measured the Cast Performance bullits yet.i dont have any means of doing that.my shooting pal is also a very good machinest and gun smith.i will have him do the measureing for me.all i know is that boolit shoots very good out of my TC CONTENDER.

the drawing of the Lee boolit sure looks the same to me