What happened to my Brass?

[dtalley]

I don't know what happened, after deprimming I decided to tumbled about 100 .223 Lake City brass before I started working on the crimp, I also had a hand full of various other calibers in there with them. I ran them for about 9 hours (over night) and most of them came out great except around 12 came out with the crude on them. I retumbled them last night and it did not help. The crude will scrape off with my fingernail but what the heck happened. I use a Frankfort Arsenal vibratory tumbler and Lyman tuff nut media that is about a year old. Most of the time I only tumble about 2 yours and you can eat off of the brass.

The Crude was coated on a couple and spotty on others. Not just the .223 brass was effected but it was the worst.

Has anyone had this happen or know what happened to cause it????

[StarMetal]

Yup,

If you leave oily type sizing lubes on the cases this will happen sometimes. I alway wipe my cases off with alcohol before putting them in the tumbler. The tumblers won't clean these crud off. I think because it's too resilent. If you use any kind of clean in the media I fine that the crud is a combination of the cleaner and the case lube. In my case the clean is red like rouge and that's what I find caked on the case.

Might be time to change out your media too.

Joe

[dtalley]

There you go. I didn't even think about the case lube causing it.. I didn't wipe them off before putting in the tumbler either..

thanks that makes since.

[garandsrus]

dtalley,

I tumble Dillon case lube off all the time... It is lanolin mixed with alcohol. You can make your own very easily, just use liquid lanolin and 99% ibupropyl rubbing alcohol.

John

[dtalley]

Where do you get liquid lanolin??? and how much of each in say a quart container??

[StarMetal]

Forget that sticky messy lanolin case lube, use the dry lubes like Hornady and Lee's, or use imperial wax. Although that lanolin mixture works it's sticky and messy. I got away from those types of lubes years ago and it's the best thing I've every done. Also the dry lubes don't contaminate your powder if they get inside the case and you don't tumble them.

Oh I forgot, alot of the guys here use that lube for pulling electrical wire through conduit, that's water based and also better then lanolin as far as not as messy.

Joe

[Marshal Kane]

Yup,
If you leave oily type sizing lubes on the cases this will happen sometimes. Joe
Doesn't have to be sizing lube either. Old gun oil that has dried on the case will attract dust from the tumbler media and leave redish brown stains that have to be scraped off. If a solvent takes the stains off, it may be gun oil.

[rmb721]

I agree with StarMetal about the case lube. If you get the Hornady, get it in the pump spray, NOT the airisol can. I had more than one plug up. Last week, I tried some Imperial sizing wax for the first time. It worked great. It was like sizing cases that had already been sized.

[StarMetal]

Don't get the Hornady in the pump bottle. I bought that ONCE and lost alot of brass sticking in the sizing die and ripping the heads off. After a call to the Hornady tech he said it wasn't the same stuff that is in the aersol can. He said the stuff is no good and that they were suppose to change it. He sent me two cans of aersol free. I asked him being there's alot of water in that pump bottle version, would it rust out dies. He said they never thought of that and good question. So far I haven't had any cans plug up. If you use it regularly and often I don't think it will. Shake up it up good first too, it does have an agitation ball in it. Anymore I use it just for lubing inside the case neck and use imperial wax for the outsides.

Joe

[garandsrus]

dtalley,

Here is a link to a site that has a lot of homemade concoctions that are firearm related... Frogspad (http://www.frfrogspad.com/homemade.htm)

The link to the case lube is here (http://www.frfrogspad.com/homemade.htm#Sizing). The site menions where to find Lanolin also.

The case lube works great and is a lot cheaper than what Dillon sells it for...

I haven't tried the dry case lube that StarMetal mentioned.

John

[Cherokee]

Use Hornady One Shot in the can - best overall I found.

[Char-Gar]

Hummm...I aways thought the purpose of cleaning the brass was to get it ready to size so as to avoid any possible damage to those dies. Sooo..what is the purpose to clean it after sizing..make is shiney?

I remember the days before there were tumblers etc. Brass had an antique patina to it. You wiped the soot etc, off the necks with Hoppe's or something similiar and went to work.

[StarMetal]

Charger,

True what you say. Sometimes I tumble mine twice, once before sizing and then again after. The reason some of us are probably doing it this way is that we like to tumble our brass with the primer knocked out so the primer hole gets some cleaning action, well at least that's why I do. I also have found that any work you do on the case such as trimming, or removing military crimped primer pockets, get smoothed up some in the tumbling process.

Joe

[Char-Gar]

Joe... I am way to "retro". I still deprime my rifle brass by hand with a Wilson punch and base. Then it goes into the tumbler.

I have all the decaping rods and expander buttons removed from my dies. After I size (either neck or FL) I expand the necks with an appropriate M style die. I avoid some of the neck stretching and out of roundness that sometimes comes with the expander button on the rod.

If I need to trim, I use a file trim die. I use the Redding as they are cut to chamber spec and not sizing die specs. Use and RCBS file trim die and you will get a FL sizied case whether you want it or not.

I have both a Wilson and Forester lathe type trimmers and use them from time to time also. When I start with a new bath of cases, I will trim them all to a uniform length with the Wilson or Forester and if they grow, use the file trim dies to keep them square and in spec.

Like I say,I am way to "retro" and introduce some steps that many exclude. I am not a high volumn game shooter, so the time doesn't matter to me.

I load my rifle ammo on a RCBS A2 press and a Hollywood powder measure, both from the 50s. Yea..."Retro" is the word.

"Chiney brass....We don't need no steeenkin chiney brass"

[toecutter]

I do a lot of reloading ... A LOT of reloading.

For bulk range found brass, I wash it in a mix of 1-cup vinegar, 1 gallon water, 2 tbsp salt, 1 cup powdered laundry detergent, and 1 cup borax. I put the solution in a 5 gallon bucket with a lid, add the brass and then shake it for a few minutes. The solution can be reused until it gets too laden with junk.

After washing, hose it all off with warm clean water and set to dry. Drying can be sped up by using a large cracker tin with holes punched near the bottom and a hole cut in top so a hairdryer can be stuffed in the top. Stick the brass in, and run the dryer until all the water is gone.

This cleans the brass, and will take most of the fouling off. It also removes the oil, and in some cases, it will clean out powder fouling from the insides of the cases.

This solution also works great for removing water and oil based case lubes.

Size normally, then tumble.

[dtalley]

I only had about a dozen that got the crud on them and i was able to get them clean....I learned my lesson and know now to wipe off lube before I tumble if I continue to use the RCBS Lube.

Thanks for all your replies.. I have read many people really like the Imperial stuff and I will be trying it next.

[BruceB]

For my part, I tumble brass before doing ANYTHING else to it. This gives me sparkly-clean cases to work with, and the flash-holes are positively cleared by the decapping pin once I get to loading the cases. I do not clean primer pockets, and case inspection is done during the loading process.

Case lubrication is done with the spray-bottle stuff from Midway, which works much better (for me, anyway) than the Hornady One-Shot stuff...and I tried the Hornady lube extensively. The spray bottle has about twice as much lube as the aerosol can for roughly the same price. I just wipe each round clean with a rag during the final inspection and gauging stage. Sometimes I use a solvent on the rag, and sometimes I don't.

This routine works very well for my purposes.

[dtalley]

I usually tumble before I do anything to my brass also... But this was military Crimped primers and so I had to lube them to punch the primers, then I needed the lube off. So not realizing what would happen I dropped them back into the tumbler to get the lube off. It worked on 95% of them but just a few collected all the dust. I put them back in the Tumbler to clean so I can hold on to them better because I was planning on taking out the crimp by hand.

I have learned my lesson and will not put brass with lube on it into the tumbler again. It is amazing how much we learn from our mistakes but often need others to tell us what we did wrong.

[Firebird]

I use one of Lyman's "Universal" de-priming dies to punch the primers out before tumbling the brass. No lube needed because the case isn't being sized, and my Co-Ax press seems to keep the case aligned correctly for the depriming pin to go through the flash hole even without a tight case to the die fit.

[felix]

Well, I discovered a good soap for brass cleaning. I remembered somebody said that the swimming pool places carry a filter cleaning solvent/soap. Sure enough, I found a product for this purpose, the SUN brand, and noticed that it carried an acid, said so on the label. I used about an ounce per half gallon of water and stirred 250 '06 sized cases for 5 minutes plus or minus. Cases were cleaned very good, and I used ordinary water to wash them afterwards, changing often. That soap, if you can call it that, is non-sudsy and leaves a spotless case ready to load in about one day. The best washing media I have found to date because it leaves no calcium/magnesium streaks, and does not make the cases squeaky clean, just clean. Water/trash in the primer pocket is completely gone in 24 hours. ... felix

[dagamore]

felix,

after washing my casses, to rinse them off, i would just put them in a nylon sack and run them throught the dishwasher (the old one in the garage, not the new one(atlest not the new one again)) with out any soap in it. Gives it a real good rinse. and they dry out for the most part.

[Netherwolf]

I have learned my lesson and will not put brass with lube on it into the tumbler again. It is amazing how much we learn from our mistakes but often need others to tell us what we did wrong.

You should be able to get the lube off by tumbling the brass in some corn cob media treated with a bit of mineral spirits.

I picked up that little trick while pulling a handle for a guy that reloads & markets .50 BMG ammo. The old brass is cleaned in cement mixer tumbler with Rooster Brite polish. It's then spray-lubed & full length sized. Then it goes into a second cement mixer tumbler with media that's been treated with mineral spirits. 45 minutes later the brass comes out with no trace of any remaining lube & ready for final assembly.

Netherwolf

[Hunter]

I will agree with BruceB, I tumble first befor anything else. I use both Hornady and RCBS case lube but I like the Hornady much better (cleaner). Tumbling after depriming/resizing will let media in the flash hole. I usually only tumble a few hours with straight corn cob and that seems to work very well. A little discoloring that was not removed of some cases I have been using a while dosen't bother me. I don't send them to the recycle bin till the case mouth splits.