Non Magnum Hunting Handguns - Velocity or Accuracy?

[insanelupus]

With hunting season coming up I've been thinking about hunting handguns.

The .44 Special thread got me to thinking. Especially with fixed sight handguns, the odds of finding a relatively high velocity (yet safe) load which shot extremely well and to the point of aim aren't always a given. However, I've found several times with fixed sighted handguns, by backing the velocity down some, I often find it's easier to find a good accurate load that will shoot to the sights, especially if I'm not hell bent on finding the fastest load available.

For instance, where I hunt the possiblity is there in the fall to hunt deer, black bear, and elk all in the same day. Usually I carry a rifle and a side arm is simply there as a back up and/or in the event I find myself in a situation where I might be able to use it to fill a tag. In which case, I simply treat it like a noisy bow, meaning I'd want to get close, (35 yards is usually my max with non magnum cartridges) and I'd prefer broadside shots. Otherwise I have a rifle if I want to take a shot.

So if I had a load with the 429421 Keith bullet out of wheel weight lead and I found one load shot to the sights at 25-30 yards and I could shoot it very well but the velocity was only about 750-800 fps I wouldn't be too upset to use that load. Sure I'd try to find a load of comparable accuracy with a speed of 850-900 fps, but if I did't find one I'd still pack the handgun to hunt with. Now I'd be real choosy about shots at black bears and elk, but deer at that yardage most likely wouldn't be a problem.

Of course, waiting 30-45 minutes before trying to locat the animal goes back to treating the handgun like a noisy bow.

But, my handgun hunting is very limited and in the past has been with magnum rounds. I just haven't had a chance to fill a tag with a non magnum caliber before. I'd sure be interested in thoughts and ideas and especially in hearing some real world experience from y'all.

[Trifocals]

The .45 Colt or the .44 Special are very good candidates, if the right bullets are used. The velocity range you mention should do the job on Whitetails. It sure wouldn't hurt to bump the velocity up to the 900-950 range. If you have access to back issues of "HANDLOADER" magazine, Brian Pearce has written some very good articles that coincide with what you mention. LOL

[HeavyMetal]

First I have always felt boolit placement is the first and foremost responsiblity of a good hunter my Grandfather told me if your gonna kill it kill it clean.

Good advise that I have always heeded to the point that I have passed up shots rather than risk loosing wounded game.

So I think finding a load that shoots to point of aim is best. Then finding a load capable of doing the job is next.

Please remember that book velocities and what actually comes out of the gun are often very different. This is one time a chony is vital to load development.

The difference between 800FPS and 900 FPS is not great but I wold reject any load, no matter how accurate, if it did not break that 800 FPS barrier consistantly and in cold weather.

You did not mention the firearm your planning to carry. Be aware that barrel length also plays a big part in poi/poa.

The 429421 is a great boolit but others out there might provide you with "tools" to change POI. A prime example of this is Lyman 429303.

Lighter it can be driven faster which means a lower POI.

Depending on how much effort you want to put into the research this could be a heck of a learning experience.

[sixshot]

The Skeeter Skelton load of 7.5 grs of Unique with the 250 Keith will usually run somewhere between 925 & 975 fps depending on barrel length, etc. I used it last year in my Lipsey's 4 5/8" 44 special to take a Montana whitetail, worked great.
Also the old 45 with Keith or LBT slugs is a proven game taker & you don't need wrist wreckers to get the job done. Most of of the modern 45's will handle 9 grs of Unique with the 250-260 gr slugs, this load usually runs around 1000 fps in most barrels.

Dick

[Char-Gar]

Any cast bullet with a large flat nose, 40 caliber or greater, travelings 900 fps or greater, will cleanly kill a deer with a well placed shot! A poorly placed shot with any firearm will result in wounded and suffring game. A thing to be avoided at call costs.

[Changeling]

Any cast bullet with a large flat nose, 40 caliber or greater, travelings 900 fps or greater, will cleanly kill a deer with a well placed shot! A poorly placed shot with any firearm will result in wounded and suffring game. A thing to be avoided at call costs.

Well said! All game should be approached with the same consideration of a clean kill!

Except groundhogs!:twisted:

[TDC]

Any cast bullet with a large flat nose, 40 caliber or greater, travelings 900 fps or greater, will cleanly kill a deer with a well placed shot! A poorly placed shot with any firearm will result in wounded and suffring game. A thing to be avoided at call costs.


Well said! All game should be approached with the same consideration of a clean kill!

Except groundhogs!:twisted:

What these two have said.....

I've hunted big game almost exclusively with handguns for over 35 years. My caliber choices have been .41 and .44 mag. I've taken many deer, several bear and several large bull elk with those calibers..

First, we all owe it to the animal to insure a clean kill if we choose to use a range limiting/lower velocity weapon like a handgun.

Some animals, like deer and Pronghorns, are easier to kill. Some like bear and mature bull elk can be tough critters and very difficult to put down, even with well placed rifle shots...

I say this because I believe, from experience, you may want to reconsider using the caliber choices you have mentioned if you hunt bear and elk. I've heard the arguments (Grizzlies killed with a .22 for instance) and believe those stories to be the exception.

If you hunt with a handgun I'd suggest a couple of things.

1. Chose "over kill" rather the "adequate" for a caliber choice.

2. Practice continually under stress. Something like a timed police combat course can create that stress and hone your ability for quick shot placement. It will provide a "rushed" shooting ability you'll never gain from a relaxed bench.

3. Accuracy is always the key, but after that choose the heaviest boolit you and your pistol can handle well. When the adrenalin is pumping many times you can kiss bench rest accuracy goodbye. Good penetration and delivered energy are important every time you chose to pull the trigger.

4. As with a bow, be extremely proud of your hunting successes with a handgun. It is much more difficult than using a rifle. It can require a whole different approach to hunting requiring greater stealth and ability to get within range of the game.

Good luck and post pictures of your successes!!

JMHO.....

[ole 5 hole group]

I think you’re going to have an enjoy hunt. The 44 Special is an excellent caliber and as long as you can shoot it well at the distance you intend to take the animal at, that’s basically all you need to do.

If by chance your sights are slightly blocked when the 44 Special speaks (and you’ll know if they are), just pound another round or two into the animal as it departs at warp speed. No one sets out to make a bad shot but it does happen on occasion for one reason or another and you just have to follow up as quickly & accurately as possible in an attempt to “make it right”. I’ll put my money on you making a good shot the 1st time.

[EOD3]

Just my opinion but, the .45 Colt loaded with a flat point (think soda can) bullet between 250 and 325 grains is pretty hard to beat. :Fire:

[Thumbcocker]

You might want to check your local laws. In Illinois the .45 Colt is legal for whitetails but the .44 Special might not be (500 foot pounds of energy) . Oddly enough the .30 carbine is legal. Go figure.
I have never recovered a 429421 from a deer. My longest hit was at 65 yards. Hit both lungs and they will drop. Others advocate heavy boolits but I have no experience with them so I can't comment. I have not noticed a whole lot of difference between solid and hp's, although the hp's may have a slight edge at 1200 fps or so.

I hunt from a tree stand and like to get at least a partial rest when possible. I firmly believe in dry fire practice with Rugers as it smooths the action and lets you practice your follow through ( which I feel is very important). Treat a handgun like a slightly longer range bow and you will be fine with white tails. I can't speak to other critters since all I have shot are deer a hog and a coyote. I like to hunt the thick stuff where 50 yards is a fairly long shot.

[EOD3]

You might want to check your local laws. In Illinois the .45 Colt is legal for whitetails but the .44 Special might not be (500 foot pounds of energy) . Oddly enough the .30 carbine is legal. Go figure.

It's a plot! The non-believers insist on using Velocity squared in their energy calculations. I've long held that FPE is a two dimensional answer to a three dimensional question. That's my story and I'm sticking to it. :coffee:

[zac0419]

I also hunt in IL, so you got me curious. I checked, just for s&g. Their are a few factory 44(sp) offerings that fall into the +500 fpe. Grizzly Cartridge for one.

I have a few 45's but I keep eyeing that 44 thinking its going to be next on the list.

I tried getting used to the 45 Colt +P's but couldn't get my groups (6 shot strings) consistent past 40yds. I hunt tight woods so that might not really be a problem but it bothered me. I just ordered some 45 colt ammo 255SWC that is just above the 500 fpe and running at about 950 fps, I'm hoping that I extend my range or at least get to know the gun better before stepping back up to the +P's. If not, I've done a lot of shooting at 40 yds and know my limits.

[NickSS]

I will start this off by saying except for small game I am not a handgun hunter. I often carry a side arm when hunting and it could be anything from a 22 RF pistol to a 44 mag hand gun. Mostly I carry either a 38 spl or a 357 magnum usually a 4 inch or 6 inch revolver. However, the only two times I have shot big game with a hand gun I was armed with a 38 spl chief special Model 36 S&W for the first and a 45 ACP 1911 colt for the second. The first was at my hinting camp range about 20 feet animal was a large whitetail doe. I had put my rifle away and was building a fire to cook dinner when I saw the doe at the edge of the woods. I pulled my revolver and fired three quick shots. The doe was standing for the first shot and running for the second two. I hit her through the lungs with the first two rounds and the third hit her in the butt. She ran about 50 yards and died. A post mortum recovered all three bullets non of which expanded but as they were 150 gr SWC they made good size holes pucturing both lungs but not exiting. The second was fork horn black tail deer, range was about 25 feet. The gun was my CCW weapon at the time and I was walking from my well house to my house when I spotted the deer. A quick draw and four rounds fired and the deer went a total of 25 yards. I put three in the lungs and one under the back bone further back, None of the bullets exited and none of them expanded. The guns was loaded with 200 gr Speer Hollow cavity bullets at about 900 f[s and the hollow points got plugged with deer hide an hair. So low powered hadguns can kill deer but unless it was absolutely necessary I would never hunt them with them except at really close range.

[missionary5155]

Good morning
I have a 44-40 Colt New Service down here with me. Having reamed the cylinders to .430+ and using a 220 Saeco 443 with 50-50 mix and propelled by 9 grains Unique I would not hessitate to pop a white tail (none here) or other criitter under 200 # out to 50 yards through the ribs standing broadside mostly. Under 25 yards would open other possible angles and penetration possibilities.
I did modify my front sight and opened the rear slot to get it to shoot right.
Collectors... save your rants... this is a no finish, slightly peppered well carried revolver.... and it´s mine here in Peru.

[Bret4207]

As Nick points out, HP are real iffy on game at handgun velocity. Better to depend on penetration and a FN/SWC shape for damage. Accuracy makes boolit placement easier. I would prefer to have a boolit of at least 150 gr and 38 cal at at least 850 fps, but sometimes you do what you gotta do. A 44 SWC at 850-900 will work if the placement is right.