Good beginner coach gun for CAS and fun

[wellfedirishman]

I know this is a casting section, but it seems to be the most appropriate place.

Can anyone recommend a good, inexpensive coach gun for CAS and just general fun? I was told that the cheap Norinco coach guns were too soft (improperly hardened steel) and had reliability problems.

I cast and load Lee 12 ga slugs with good success, I would probably cast and load roundball loads or buckshot too for the coach gun. It would be fun to use black powder loads with it too.

Thanks!

Edit: I found much of the info I was looking for here: (Great site)
http://www.cascity.com/getstarted6.htm

[Firebricker]

I bought a Stoeger for CAS and have been real happy with it. Mine is hammerless with double trigger's but they make all kinds of model's. My friend Cajun Shooter can tell you a lot more about CAS shotguns. He shoot's a lot of match's and has a real good idea on how they hold up. BTW I'm not sure on the current price's but I think I paid $325 for mine a couple year's ago in used very good condition. FB

[home in oz]

I bought a Stoeger also.

[wellfedirishman]

Thanks Guys. For CAS do you use Cylinder choke (i.e., will a cut down un-choked barrel work) or do you need tighter chokes? Do you mostly shoot buckshot or birdshot?

Thanks for the info.

[dualsport]

I have the Norinco. It has only malfunctioned once, I fired both barrels at the same time just for fun and the forend popped off and the thing opened itself. Might not have happened if I'd a had a better hold of it, but I'm not going to try that again anyway. They make a decent copy of a 1897 Winchester too, but I can't say how the quality is on those. I know you said coach gun, but you might think about a good old '97, they're out there. I got one a long time ago, a takedown model with two barrels, long and short. They don't have a trigger disconnector so will really go to town.

[Firebricker]

I've never checked what the chokes are on mine but you don't need tight choke's for CAS. The target's are fairly close but the shotgun targets usaully have to be knocked down. I've shot buckshot testing patterns but shoot mainly birdshot. FB

[Muddy Creek Sam]

I don't have a choke in any of my CAS/SASS shotguns all straight barrels. I have an 1887, 1897 and a TTN copy of the Colt hammered Coach Gun. SASS only allows Bird Shot.

Sam :D

[dualsport]

What's a TTN? IIRC the Norinco coach gun is based on an old Remington design, but with 10 new safeties, which I'd remove if I knew how. I regret selling my 80's era CVA dbl 12 ga. muzzleloader. That thing was fun, and light as a feather, splinter forend.

[Muddy Creek Sam]

What's a TTN? IIRC the Norinco coach gun is based on an old Remington design, but with 10 new safeties, which I'd remove if I knew how. I regret selling my 80's era CVA dbl 12 ga. muzzleloader. That thing was fun, and light as a feather, splinter forend.


See here http://arms2armor.com/store/product616.html

Sam :D

[dualsport]

That's a nice looking gun, way nicer than my Model 99. I guess mine is a copy of a Colt too, not a Remington like I thought. The upside is I won't have to worry about scratching it. It does seem to be plenty stout, just don't like the extra safeties.

[Four Fingers of Death]

I have an IAC which is a cheap copy of the Colt hammer gun I'm told. Nice gun, but I had it 'prepped' for competition and the guy who is the main cowboy gunsmith here and comes highly recommended must have been off his oats when he worked on my guns. The left Bbl doesn't fire reliably. After he finished I had the gun 'un-smithed' as I call it. New springs, sears re-cut and re-timed. Still not 100% I think I will have to file down the hammer stop to allow it to fall a bit more solidly.

I bought my wife a Stoeger hammerless coach gun. It has adjustable chokes! Amazing gun! Hit where I pointed it and shucked every shell clean! I am wrapped in it. We might be sharing this one.

I'd say you'd be hard pressed to go past the Stoeger. I was on the loading bench and looked at the shotguns. All five were Stoegers! I asked the 3guys and the one gal how their shotguns were. They all replied that they were bog stock and had never, ever missed a beat!

If you don't already own a hunting shotgun, you can get the set with two barrels, one coach gun length and one longer for hunting for not much more money.

They have a very good recoil pad as well which was soft, but never caught on my shirt as some are prone to. I love this little gun!

[wellfedirishman]

Thanks guys for all the info.

I found a used 12 ga coach (originally a longer barreled Stevens 311 model) locally that has been cut down to 19" with cylinder choke and bead sight. It is inexpensive and will do the trick as a starter CAS gun.

She's not pretty right now, but will clean up with some linseed oil on the stock.

http://i295.photobucket.com/albums/mm138/wellfedirishman/SpringfieldStevens511Coachgun.jpg

[Four Fingers of Death]

That will get you going! Good luck with it!

[cajun shooter]

Order a leather cover for the butt stock. This will hold the stock in position and not let it slip when mounted on your shoulder. The cylinder choke will work for most guns. What you must remember is that SXS don't have enough steel for adding screw in chokes and they don't work anyway in a SXS. When using a SXS you have to remember that they are built on the idea of convergence. This means that both bbls will come to point of aim at 40 yds and dispense most all of it's shot into a 30inch circle at that range.That is the theory but it never works that way. Most all shotgun targets are 10 yds or a clay bird at 20 yds. At very close range KD's if you aim at the target you will miss it left or right. These targets should be in line with the bbl you chose to shoot. If target is 5-7 yds point at it with the left bbl and pull the back trigger. You must pattern your shotgun with the ammo you choose and count the number of shot it has before shooting. Although you have no choke let me throw this in. Just because a choke says it is modified does not mean it will fire those groups with your gun or ammo. If anyone tells you you need such and such a choke to shoot this distance they are wrong. A modified choke could produce full choke, modified, or improved cyl performance. Only a pattern test will tell. The shotgun you have should work for you. If you become very active in SASS you will need more than one. I shoot the IAC 1887 lever and the 1878 Colt SXS that was TTN but is now EMF. I had some bbl problems and they fixed it right away. It is one of the best as it comes with the easy open, light cocking with hammers close, and large front bead.

[firefly1957]

I made a mistake buying one of those chinese hammer guns from Dunhams a few years ago I looked at three and bought the only one that the barrels pointed in the same place. 200 rounds later it has loosened up and the safety has always reset from recoil of all but the lightest loads. I should of waited until I found a used Stevens 311 which is what it replaced (was stolen) .
If you ever see a sTevens 311 with 18 1/2 browned barrels , a nickeled receiver and shortened stock with slip on recoil pad check for driver lic# under pad S-415......

[JIMinPHX]

I've messed with one of the Bikals. I wasn't too impressed. The two barrels shot to different points of aim. The finish came off the wood in the rain & stained my hunting overalls pretty bad. The action latch lever was so stiff that you just about need a crow bar to get it open. Based on that one bad experience, I stay away from the Russian shotguns.

[Boartooth]

hey folks,newbie on board.
I'm trying to get back into CAS,recently bought a couple'a Remmy 1858 replicas,planning to use APP,or something similar.
Has anyone reloaded shotgun shells with BP substitutes on a machine?I have a MEC sizemasterand am trying to figure out which bar and bushing to use,Cap'n Baylor recomends a load using 50 grains of APP,and 1 1/8 oz.shot.I'm very inexperienced at this and would appreciate any help

[eljefe]

Hi Boartooth,

I load on a Mec Grabber. I deprime, resize, then prime the hull. Then, I pull the shell out and load with a lee dipper. Then wad and shot, etc. This requires
having no powder bottle, just shot on top of the charge bar.

I do the above because most of my loading is done with black powder, though
I have also done it with triple 7. I have used APP for cartridge handgun. It is the consistency of cat litter, and may not meter well through a Mec charge bar.
It is worth a try, though.

[Springfield]

Boartooth: buy the adjustable charging bar and set things where you want, so much easier. I only use real BP but load on my MEC 600's all the time, work fine. Wellfedirishman, you coming to shoot with us one of these days? There is a nice new club in Morgan Hill, not to far from you, at the Coyote Valley Sporting Clays club. Second saturday of the month.

[Limey]

http://i46.photobucket.com/albums/f101/lambris/P1030133.jpg

....Baikal S x S with interchangable chokes....working exposed hammers....

Our local clubs CAS style events have half inch thick steel chickens set up at 20 metres...about 22 yards....and they restrict us to number 7 shot only.....

...if you use cylinder choke the knock down power is marginal....half chole or more gives you solid knock down power every time....

...the wood is walnut.....


...I love it...

Straight shootin'

Limey

[Boartooth]

Boartooth: buy the adjustable charging bar and set things where you want, so much easier. I only use real BP but load on my MEC 600's all the time, work fine. Wellfedirishman, you coming to shoot with us one of these days? There is a nice new club in Morgan Hill, not to far from you, at the Coyote Valley Sporting Clays club. Second saturday of the month.

Thanks for the advice guys,I have an adjustable bar that I got with the loader and think I've worked up a useable load,now got to test it,BTW,I grew up in Morgan Hill,that Sporting clays place was built in an area I used to hike in a lot.I'm in Southern Oregon now,but you brought back some fond memories,thanks.

[cajun shooter]

The TTN shotguns were made in China under the watch of Walt Johnson. Walt had them built to be SASS ready out the box. They opened all the way with a push on the lever and had a large brass front sight. The forceing cones were made longer and the chambers were polished for easy extraction. If you use STS, AA, Nitro 27 type hulls it worked well. The hammers are also built close together so that they maybe cocked with one thumb. The trigger and hammer springs are also built for SASS. Walt had some production problems through no falut of his. He went to EMF and the gun is now made under that banner with Walt working right there. You may call and ask him any questions you have. I shot a Baikal but had problems with it and after having it repaired I sold it and bought one of Coyote Caps 1887 lever action 12 ga guns. It is with out a doubt one of the most fun guns to shoot in SASS. It does have a learning curve that many fail to learn. I switch between my 1887 and my 1878 EMF which is a copy of the Colt model. Watch and see how many times T-Bone has won championships shooting the SXS 1878. The Stogers are good starters but like all guns will break with heavy use as the Savage will fall in here to. If you have the big bucks and want to run with the top dogs then the single trigger SKB or Browning are the top guns. I feel that the true West did not have these guns but they are legal for the Gamer's to win with. $450- $550 will buy you a gun thaT WILL HOLD UP AND WORK. I did not say anything about the 97 as I don't think they have a place in Western history.

[Montana Slim]

I made a mistake buying one of those chinese hammer guns from Dunhams a few years ago I looked at three and bought the only one that the barrels pointed in the same place. 200 rounds later it has loosened up and the safety has always reset from recoil of all but the lightest loads. I should of waited until I found a used Stevens 311 which is what it replaced (was stolen) .
If you ever see a sTevens 311 with 18 1/2 browned barrels , a nickeled receiver and shortened stock with slip on recoil pad check for driver lic# under pad S-415......

I've been using one of those for 8-10 years now. Fortunately, I've rebuilt a number of old, worn & broken double hammer guns.....so I know how to tighten tune, and adjust them. Mine is real sweet (now), paid about $190 new, including tax. I'm quite happy with it...but, I did put a fair amount of time to make it "right".
Also have a Norinco 1897 & 1887. Both of them needed some work, but not nearly the same level.