9mm Cast boolit questions

[R-Tex]

Hi, all -

New guy here. I've searched as best I can, but still have a few questions regarding 9mm cast boolits (for paper-punching). I have a little experience casting .452 boolits in a Lee 2- and 6-cavity mould. Please forgive me if the questions are on the basic side, but I couldn't search successfully enough to find the answers I was after.

I'm interested in casting bullets for a Glock 22 with a 9mm Federal barrel , so lead bullets won't present any great problems. My initial choice for a mould is Lee's six-cavity 124-grain truncated cone, TL boolit. My questions are:

1. Is it correct that TL boolits do not have to be run through a sizer? Should I go ahead and size them just to eliminate a possible variable? (I slugged the barrel at just a smidge under .356)

2. Plans are to dip the bases & grooves in Lee Liquid Alox rather than coating the whole bullet so the "sticky bullet" condition can be avoided. Is this OK?

3. Are there other boolit designs I should consider? Would a round nose bullet feed more reliably in a Glock?

4. I read a post in which the poster was using a 150 grain .357 RN bullet & sizing it at .356 for 9mm (a Glock 34, IIRC) and .358 for use in a .38. Is such a "dual purpose" bullet type feasible?

Any and all comments are most welcome.

Thanks in advance for your help,

Rick

[Lloyd Smale]

that tl lee is a good bullet as a matter of fact its the only TL bullet ive ever got to shoot well. My favorite though is the 115 rcbs RN its a real good shooter. Ive had alot better luck with casting them both hard. As a matter of fact group size about triples with the TL bullet when cast out of alloys softer then #2

[Leftoverdj]

You should be advised that there is some controversy about the advisibility of shooting cast bullets in Glocks. I personally believe that it is a .40 S&W problem rather than a Glock problem, and have not been able to find any kabooms with 9mms. Nevertheless, if you are going to shoot cast in a Glock, keep your pressures and velocities down. You'll get better accuracy that way, anyway.

9mms in general are cursed with a twist rate that is nearly twice what it should be. They are also cursed with groove diameters that are all over the place. Cast bullets should be one to two thous bigger than the bore. Given your bore size, either .357 or .358 should be fine. Forget .355 and 356 lead bullets.

As Lloyd told you, you'll need hard bullets. Softer ones tend to strip while turning with that fast twist. I favor heavy for caliber bullets because they have more bearing surface. Their generally slower velocities do not hurt either.

You certainly can cover both 9mm and .38/357 with a single mould. My plinking bullet for anything vaguely that size is the now discontinued Lee 356-153-2R. Mine actually casts about .358 and has given decent results in everything I have tried it in. It has not been necessarily the best bullet for a given gun, but the ease of casting and loading is generally enough to make up for that for casual purposes. I do run even TL bullets through a sizer as insurance against those rare casts when the mould did not quite close. I'd rather size them all and not need to do so than to have one cartridge that will not chamber.

Lead is a lot softer than steel and the bore will easily squeeze down somewhat fat bullets without even raising pressures noticeably. If a loaded round will drop into the chamber of its own weight, the bullet is safe to shoot.

[versifier]

The only dumb questions are the ones you are too proud to ask. We all are learning about something at any given time, but unless you're plowing new ground, chances are someone around here has the answer you're looking for.

1. If they will chamber without sizing, I don't bother.

2. Dipping works fine if you can hang onto the boolit. It's easier with rifle boolits, and I can hang onto swc's usually, but if you have thick stumpy fingers it will be a pain. I can barely do it with .30cal soupcans and I don't even try with .358 rn's or wc's. Thin your LA down with some paint thinner or mineral spirits - you don't need a really thick coat of it and it will dry faster - I do 1/2 & 1/2 and let it drip twice before setting upright on wax paper. I also scrape up the circles left after I have removed the dried boolits next day with a flattened popsicle stick and add it back into the squirt bottle. I use less than half as much as I did before I started dipping.

3. Try every different boolit you can get your hands on. Ask other forum members for samples of any that interest you, or order some from Bullshop if he has the mould. You'll have to experiment with different profiles anyway, but in general, rn's and tc's tend to feed better than swc's and wc's, though some pistols will eat anything you feed them and yours might be one of them. Only your pistol can tell you what it likes best.

4. Dual purpose boolits are definitely feasible, but if they drop big enough to work well in .38/.357, they will likely need to be sized down to feed into your 9mm. I have an old Lyman tc mould just like the one for sale in our auction site that drops right at .358 and works well unsized in .380ACP's and 9mm's. (And it's a good deal, too, you should check it out.) I have sized down larger and heavier rn's and shot them without problems, but few 9's I've tried them in would feed them reliably unsized.

[R-Tex]

Great info - Thanks, Lloyd Smale and Leftoverdj!

And versifier, too :-D

[mooman76]

You can try rolling the bullets. Put a little Alox on some wax paper and roll the bullets in the smear. It's a little messy to handle but may be easier than dipping.

Lee has a 115 g. SWC that shot well for me. It can be used in 9mm or 38/357 light loads. I shot it in all of the above. Try shooting whatever you select as is and if you have no problems they will be fine. I used to size pistol bullets but I pretty much don't any more and havent had problems!

[MT Gianni]

My experiences were the opposite of Lloyds. I never could get that Lee TL bullet to shoot. I would try a Ly 356402 or 358242 121 gr weight in both auto and revolvers. Gianni.

[sundog]

I like the RCBS 147 grainer for 9mm. sundog

[robertbank]

I cast the Lyman 356402 bullet and find it very accurate out of all my 9MM's (Trojan, CZ, Tanfoglio, & HP). I size them to .357 through an RCBS Lube sizer. The most accurate and consistent loads for me involve 4gr Unique under the bullet. I water quench my bullets straight from the mold. This load makes IPSC and IDPA power factors if you shoot either of those two disciplines. I have had good results with Win 231 and Titegroup as well. All my guns are very accurate and outshoot me. Using WW as an alloy the bullets drop out at around 128 grs.

Send me a PM with your email address and I'll send you a spreadsheet I have of loads I have Chronoed in 9MM.

Take Care

Bob

[Four Fingers of Death]

I've never used that mould, but use one similar, made by Cast Bullet Engineering. I tumble lube everything and shoot them unsized first. If it works, you have saved yourself a passle of trouble. Always worked for me, may work for you. I can'r see what the fuss is about the sticky lube, unless you are going to carry rounds around in your pocket. I throw them in an ice cream bucket, lube, toss em around and after a half hour or so, drop them out onto some brown paper. I use them the next day. I didn't realise I had a problem until you guys told me.

Like my dad used to say, suck it and see.

Bu the way, leftoverdj, he is using an aftermarket Bbl. 9mms seem ok with reloads and cast, hardly any aussies use jacketed at the range and most ranges are not licensed for jacketed ammo. I'd be leery about using reloads in a 40+ cal. I'd use reloads using second hand brass which was fired out of some other brand ppistola, but after its been through the Glock, I'd want gloves and safety glasses with the big cals. I loved my 26 when I had it, but apart from 100 chinee boy factory loads that I got with the gun, it only ever shot lead and it was bog standard.
http://i89.photobucket.com/albums/k228/4fingermick/Handguns/Handguns%20that%20have%20moved%20on/DVC00094.jpg

http://i89.photobucket.com/albums/k228/4fingermick/Handguns/Handguns%20that%20have%20moved%20on/DVC00098.jpg

Mick.

[9.3X62AL]

No disagreement with anything posted herein. I'm not familiar with the Federal aftermarket barrels, but if they are a "tight .356", that's better than most factory 9mm barrels. Both of my SIG-Sauer barrels run fat .356", so boolits get sized at .357".

Life will be a LOT easier for you if the Federal barrel runs a 1-16" to 1-20" twist rate, when it comes to shooting lead. Why gunmakers insist on the 1-10"/4 turns per meter twist rate with these short fat bullets is hard to fathom.

Segregate cases by make--they WILL vary in dimensions. I have gone to Remington as easiest to use of the several makes I've tried.

Good luck, and enjoy the journey!

[CSH]

Lots of good recommendations in this thread. The only thing I might add for 9mm is (IME) harder bullets shoot more accurately than softer ones, at least with the fast twist factory barrels in my 9's. If your aftermarket barrel has a slower twist rate you should be able to get excellent accuracy with softer (as in ACWW) bullets.

[StarMetal]

My Browning HP and my Walther P38 shoot the same whether I'm shooting hard or soft alloy. I attribute this to that fact that they both have deep rifling to get a good grip on the bullet. I've recovered bullets from both these pistols and they show no evidence of stripping. I've even fired pure lead out of a number of my tuned 1911's with the same success. I agree the 1911's have a slower twist. My attitude is it try it before you condemn it. My P38 does shoot alot better when I size the bullets larger, but with the Browning HP it doesn't seem to matter. Moving on to another caliber, the 30 Luger, I have four different makes of pistols in this caliber and we're talking about a round that normally has alot higher velocity then a 9mm. Same case with this caliber, doesn't matter if I shoot hard or soft. In this caliber the P08 German Luger has the larger bore then the others and it shoots better with the bullets sized bigger.

I don't know what to say, I'm not finding the issue with bullet hardness as you fellows are. You can't say "well it may be just your gun" because I can say this of all my handguns being revolvers and bottom feeders. I will say in some of them when pushing them a bit, the softer lead ones will leave a trace of leading sooner.

Joe

[R-Tex]

Many, many thanks to all who have responded! :drinks:

You've given me lots of terrific information and it's much appreciated.

Rick

[Lloyd Smale]

Im with Leftoverdj with the low pressure suggestion too. I shoot my favorite load using the 115 rcbs with 3.7 grains of bullseye. I shot it in a 1911 sti and i need a 9 lb spring to run it. That load goes into an inch at 25 but speed it up or soften the lead and it goes to crap. I shoot cast in my sti my colt gov 1911 and a 952 and my accuarcy finding are the opposite of some here. None of my guns like bullets heavier then 125 grain. But then ive never tried pushing the heavys fast.

[GooseGestapo]

I've used just about every mould that Lee makes for the 9mm.
I haven't gotten real good results with anything but the 120gr TC (not tumble lube mould).

It has to do with the pressures, and rapid pressure curve rise with the 9mm, coupled to a lesser extent with the twist rates. The base driving band and the leading edge driving bands are just not quite large enough for best accuacy with the 9mm.

Except for a Springfield-HD "compact" I won in a match in '05, All my 9mm's are Smith & Wesson Performance center guns which have an 1/18.325" twist. (A 5906 SingleAction 5" w/3 bbls-[9x19,9x21, and .356TSW], 5906PC 4", 5" PPC-9, and a 6" PPC-9)

I've used the Lee 120gr TC with aircooled w/w with approx 2.5oz of 95/5 leadfree solder added. And, lately, I've been using SPG lube.

I get approx 1.5-2.0" accuracy at 50yds. (I use these to shoot NRA PPC competition).
Best loads have been WinSuperField at 4.3gr or Hodgdon Longshot at 5.3gr. After working up the LongShot load, I abandoned the SuperField in this application.

Win231 is the only other powder I can recommend, at 4.2gr. But the LongShot is by far the better of the powders.

You will probably be able to use this bullet "AS CAST" and tumble lubed. I have, but in my match guns, you can tell the difference at 50yds with sizing to .356 and lubing with either the SPG, or 50/50 alox.

Other mould that works "ok" if alloy is hard is 105gr .358-SWC. Seating depth is critical for proper function.

The 124gr TC-TL, the 124 RN-TC, did poorly. The 130gr 2R .356" is "ok", but would be better if lube groove was wider, and about 0.1" further foward of base of bullet.
I haven't gotten good performance from the 147gr .356-2R round Nose in the 9mm. However, cast hard, and driven hard over a healthy dose of BlueDot, it does real well in the .38Super.

[Lloyd Smale]

GooseGestapo just turned you on to another great mold the 105 lee .38 mold that bullet shoots well in every .38 and 9mm ive shot it in. ONly problem is like he said its tough to get it set right to be reliable in a auto. But if you can get it to run i about guarantee it will be a shooter.

[lefty_red]

My daughters G19 loves the LEE TL356 124grs RN with pure WWs. I add enough ZIP or UNIVERSAL to push it to 1100 fps to make power in IDPA. She uses the LONE WOLF DIST barrel of stock length. I really don't see the problem with pushing the 9s to a productive level. Me thinks urban legends die hard.

I "toss" may bullets in a ZIPLOCK bag. I set them up and let them dry. I then "toss" them again with TURTLE CAR WAX and set then up and let them dry. NO MORE STICKY BULLET SYNDROME (SBS)!

I haven't experianced any bad leading after 400 rounds through the G35 or G19. It take about five brushes of the wire brush and a couple of passes with a patch and its a bright shiny barrel.

BTW get some latex gloves to do the bullets.

Jerry

[Char-Gar]

I have had good luck with cast bullets in various 9mm autopistols. I have a NEI mold that throws 120 grains SWC that are close to a truncated nose. I cast them out of wheel weight, size them .358 and fire them at 1 to 1.1K fps with either Unique or AA5 powders. They have functioned in every pistol I have tried and given accuracy on part with good ball ammo.

Now..here is the trick!!! 9mm cases vary greatly in length, even of the same make. Take a micrometer and segregate the cases into uniform lengths ( plus or minus a thou or two) and load ammo in those batches. You groups will be much smaller that way.

Of course a good taper crimp is the way to go.

[StarMetal]

I think the cases variation in thicknesses, thus capacity is more important then weight. With length you have some control, by either sorting or by trimming them. With thicknesses all you can do it sort and reduce or up charges depending on which way it varies.

Joe

[robertbank]

I know there are some great bullseye shooters on this forum but I am not one of them. Outside of bulleye target shooting, trimming and/or weighing cases for the 9MM for practical shooting (IPSC/IDPA/Plinking) in my view is a waste of time. So too, worrying about twist rates in barrels. There just are to many variables in pistol shooting that impact accurate shooting to be worrying about these issues when discussing practical accuracy. Variables such as eyesight, gun handling, stance, grip and athletic skill of the shooter just to mention a few.

Assuming a decent pistol is in your hands if you can hit a six inch circle at 15 yards firing quickly you likely are good to go. I doubt there are many who can outshoot a decently built and sighted handgun but that is just an opinion and others may feel differently.

Take Care

Bob

[StarMetal]

Bob,

I couldn't agree with you more. For my 9mm shooting all I do is sort the cases by brand and load them with my RCBS 124 gr TC nose bullet over about 4.0 to 4.5 grs of Unique. Out of my Browning HP they shoot just under 1 1/2 inch at 25 yards.

Joe

[robertbank]

Hi Joe

In my testing I found 4 gr Unique under 124/125 gr truncated bullet (Lyman 356402) to be the most consistent with regular SD over 10 rds at 5 to 9 in all my guns which is pretty consistent.

4.7 gr is a very accurate load but inconsistent with SD's in the teens. Not sure that means anything though. Mostly I shoot 4 gr cuzz I is cheap and it makes PF for IPSC/IDPA.:mrgreen:

Take Care

Bob

[StarMetal]

Me too Bob, 4.0 grs.

Joe

[Four Fingers of Death]

I saw an interesting article by an american gun writer a few years or so ago. He sorted by case length and then developed loads in each sample size. Whe he arrived at the best lenght, he trimmed the longer ones to that lenght and sold off the shorter ones. This would only work for that particlar gun though. Project no 567.1, don't worry, I'll get to it someday. :-) MIck

[StarMetal]

Mick,

Do you mean sort by length of the same brand? Man if you don't some 9mm cases are WAY thicker then others and that would make a BIG difference in pressures and velocities.

Joe

[BruceB]

Classify me along with the crew that only wants close-range "accuracy", and to me, that's the ability to form a reasonable-size group on the torso or head of a humanoid target out to...maybe 25 yards?? The loads I use currently are capable of reliable hits on a man-silhouette at 100 yards from a 3.25" barrel, incidentally.

My 9mm pistols are all concealed-carry guns, and all I want from my cast-boolit loads is perfect function at near-factory energies and the ability to group as above....3"-4" for ten rounds at 25 yards is adequate for my uses, and most of mine do better than that without a lot of effort expended at the loading bench. A LOT of my practice takes place at zero-to-ten FEET, and ya don't need super accuracy for that sort of work!

HOWEVER...an S&W 952 has been calling to me, and if I should ever become the owner of such a competition-quality gun (or SIG P210 for that matter), then my expectations in 9mm accuracy will tighten up radically.

For now, I'm content with a variety of 9mm cast boolits and several different powders, although 231 seems to get the nod frequently.

[StarMetal]

Bruce,

I've never been partial to S&W autos. That 952 is a right nice lookin piece thought. I forget who it is, either Kimber or Para-Ordanance...they make a match 1911 9mm...that's the one I'd like to have.

Those 9mm 124 gr TC nose with 4.0 grs of Unique are cobbled together, albeit on same headstamp brass, and that's all the tweating. That Browning HP shoots mighty fine.

Joe

[robertbank]

+1 Welcome to Joe's and my life in the real world.

I think the secret for most folks loading 9MM is to realize there is a difference between working practical velocities and the world of Marketing and +P+. More spit has been wasted on the subject of killing power and one shot kills then enough.

My paper targets seldom scream any louder when hit by my 9MM bullets at 1,050 fps vs 1,250 fps. I suspect head/torso hits on a human might result in a similar response. LOL

Take Care

Bob

[BruceB]

Joe and Robert;

Yep, "practical" is an over-used word in shooting these days, almost as bad as "tactical". I find my current approach to the 9mm to be eminently practical, because it works for me without any extra fuss.

All through the history of S&W autoloaders, from the Model 39 to those of the present, I found myself very under-impressed....EXCEPT that we bought a pair of 52-1 .38 target guns in 1970. Not only do these guns LOOK great, they are true treasures for their feel, reliability, and performance on target. The 952 is another target-quality pistol of the same ilk, hence its name, 9"52", and its HIGH price.

The only other S&W auto that speaks to me is the full-size 1006, probably because it also greatly reminds me of the Model 52. A good 1006 costs less than half the tag on a 952, so its chances of adoption at my hacienda are better than those of the 952.

[R-Tex]

Thanks once more to everyone who responded since my last post. Especially GooseGestapo, who went to extra lengths and to robertbank, who sent me all the load info.

I was really starting to like robertbank until he told me how little he had to spend to buy a NIB Norinco 1911 in Canada. :roll:

I'm really glad to have stumbled across such a great site.

Thanks again, everybody,

Rick

[Mountain]

Good thread for me to read because I want to begin casting 9mm soon.

I currently purchase pre-cast, lubed and .356 sized "Shooters Choice" 125gr LRN bullets and load them with 4.5gr Red Dot and have chrono'd them at 1130 fps through my box-stock Glock-17 used for practical shooting competition.

I plan to TL with Alox so let me ask; Is a micro-band bullet preferred or will a standand single lube groove bullet work as well?

Thanks R-Tex for starting this thread!

[Lloyd Smale]

[Ive got 79 series goverment a 952 and a sti trojan in 9mm and the trojan is by far the best of the bunch. The goverment is reliable but not accurate the 952 is accurate but to finiky the sti is the most accurate of the lot and is one of the most reliable semi autos ive ever owned. Im a kimber fan myself but would take a trojan any day of the week over a kimber. Load I shot in it is the 115 rcbs rn and 3.7 grains of bullseye and in mixed untrimmed brass it will shoot into an inch at 25 yards or better if im having a good day. Ill do a little arguing here though. Ive got another load that goes 2 inch in it and shooting a practice round of ppc using both loads allways adds at least 3-5 points using the more accurate load. Just think about it if your shooting at a 3 inch bullseye with a gun that shoots 3 inch groups you have about a 50 percent chance of missing even if your sights are in the bullseye. Your going to have problems consistantly hitting a beer can at 25 yards with a 3 inch gun. Your bullet will be as much as 1.5 inch from the poa. So if your sights drift a little one way or the other when you squeze the trigger your going to miss. Even my ccw guns are worked at until they will shoot under 2 inch. QUOTE=StarMetal;106223]Bruce,

I've never been partial to S&W autos. That 952 is a right nice lookin piece thought. I forget who it is, either Kimber or Para-Ordanance...they make a match 1911 9mm...that's the one I'd like to have.

Those 9mm 124 gr TC nose with 4.0 grs of Unique are cobbled together, albeit on same headstamp brass, and that's all the tweating. That Browning HP shoots mighty fine.

Joe[/QUOTE]

[robertbank]

I use the Lyman 355402 cast bullet, truncated design, and size it to .357. alloy is wheelweights. Most consistent accuracy and velocity comes with 4 gr Unique under the bullet at about 1,050fps in all my nines. I can push it further with no loss in accuracy with 4.7 gr but ...why?

Take Care

bob

[robertbank]

You hit beer cans at 25 yards! Hell easier just to open them and drink them right where they are.:drinks:

For CCW or IDPA Style pistol shooting 25 yard accuracy like you are talking really isn't necessary and in a real shoot out I suspect you will be hoping you just hit center mass.

My Trojan wil,l and is capable of shooting great groups at 25 yards, problem is I can't unless I only shoot one round.
At 15 yards though I know it is a killer gun but then so are several other makes I have. My problem is not the gun but the eyes and a steady hand.

Take Care

Bob

[StarMetal]

I have a 38/45 that I build the barrel for and on my Goldcup frame and slide, using that same RCBS 124 gr TC nose bullet, Unique powder (forget the load as it's been years since I shot that barrel, but definately more then 4.0 grs, probably around 6.0) and at 25 yards it shot under an inch...all on a 1911 70 Series frame.

Now back to that Browning HP I have. With the 30 Luger barrel in it, it will shoot into an inch at 25 yards.

Like I said I don't care for Smiths, but that was back long ago, and now they have new and different products out. That 952 looks pretty good.

I just mentioned that it was either Kimber or Para that made a match 9mm, not that I was endorsing them. I think Kimbers are overpriced personally. In all honestly I don't care what they or any other company builds on a 1911 platform because I build and tune my own and am more then quite happy with them.

Joe

[StarMetal]

Lloyd,

Read this link http://www.castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?t=6305&highlight=pop+cans

The pistols that were shot in it definately are not match grade anything. The one pistol is back from the early part of the 1900's (which did the best I might add). Probably the only thing they have in common with the 9mms were are discussing is that they share just about the same case and that my load is 4.0 grs of Unique in both calibers.

Joe

[robertbank]

Hey Joe how about shooting clay pidgeons laid into the bank of our range at 100 yards with my Model 27. Usually take me a few shots though. My Trojan and Para will do it to but neither have the sights or sight radius of my old Model 27. Using the 45acp I usually fire and the light up a smoke and wait for the bullet to get there but is does.:mrgreen:

Take Care

[guninhand]

Another method of fixing the stickiness of TL bullets is to swirl them in a plastic tub with a tablespoon of mica right after the tumble lubing, and shake off or blow away any excess mica.

[Lloyd Smale]

Joe i used to use that load in my old ruger and it shot well. The sti likes the bullseye load a tad better though.
Lloyd,

Read this link http://www.castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?t=6305&highlight=pop+cans

The pistols that were shot in it definately are not match grade anything. The one pistol is back from the early part of the 1900's (which did the best I might add). Probably the only thing they have in common with the 9mms were are discussing is that they share just about the same case and that my load is 4.0 grs of Unique in both calibers.

Joe

[mag_01]

I use the Lee 125RN tumble lube boolit with 3.8 bullseye for 2 (9mms) and for hot loads in 38 and 357---38 is 5.5 bull a +P+ load and is a real tack driver. Tumble lubed and not sized.

[Poohgyrr]

Thanks for all the info here, I've only been shooting jacketed rounds for 9X19..

And especially for the info on Smith's. I haven't shot a 6" Smith 9X19, but what the 5 inch 5906 based frame does for this round took me completely by surprise. If anyone ever has a chance to shoot one of the PPCs, take it.

And practical accuracy is relative. If I have to make a half a head shot on a smart thug using my family as a shield, I better be able to. Not all thugs are stupid and stand still with no cover, although they should. The rest of the time, COM often works. And dogs are smaller. I've had to shoot two pits charging and biting kids.. That was practical.

Now I need to look at that mold.

[shootingbuff]

You hit beer cans at 25 yards! Hell easier just to open them and drink them right where they are.:drinks:

For CCW or IDPA Style pistol shooting 25 yard accuracy like you are talking really isn't necessary and in a real shoot out I suspect you will be hoping you just hit center mass.

My Trojan wil,l and is capable of shooting great groups at 25 yards, problem is I can't unless I only shoot one round.
At 15 yards though I know it is a killer gun but then so are several other makes I have. My problem is not the gun but the eyes and a steady hand.

Take Care

Bob

:mrgreen: :drinks: :drinks: :mrgreen:

LOL Sounds like the groups I shoot.

sb

[lastmanout]

Well at the risk of raising controvesy, I will add my two cents. I have toyed with lead bullets in various makes of 9mm over 30 years. Was VERY disappointed until recently. This is the best combo I have ever shot from an autoloader. It is equal to the better handloads I have for sixguns, but it is so WRONG, it should not work !!!!:-? My pistol is a model 34 Glock 9mm with stock barrel, the powder is 3.5 Unique (old lot) , brass is Winchester with a standard Win Pistol Primer, AND ...... the cast lead bullet is a Lee 150 grain round nose flat point (RNFP) sized .358 with homemade lube. The Length of the loaded round is as long as I can possibly make it-that is IMPORTANT - The 9mm Para is a small case and pressures can go dangerously wild with a change of C.O.L. or a tenth of a grain of powder. This combo (that I use at my own risk) can shoot one hole 5 shot groups at 10 yards and 2" groups at 25....On a good day:-D It amazes me each time I shoot it. Recoil is very mild and MY loads have shown no signs of pressure for the first 2000 rounds. The Glock barrel is thoroughly cleaned after 100 shots. Trying to avoid the KAbOOM. I will continue to shoot it until something bad shows up and report back to the good folks here at the board. As always- your results my differ from mine and I make no claim to the safety of this combo in your weapon. Or my spelling of grammar skills. OK ???:Fire:

[robertbank]

HI

Interesting.

Try 4 gr Unique under 125 gr lead truncated 9MM bullet sized to .357 in your Glock for the heck of it. This load will shoot one hole groups froma rest all day long in my HI-Powers, CZ, Tanfoglio and STI Trojan. Load power factors out at around 130 - 135 with SD's in the single digits.

Load is extremely mild recoiling. Starmetal shoots this load as well and I believe Joe reports the same results. Chime in here Joe.

Take Care

Bob

[Poohgyrr]

Thanks, I keep learning more and more.......


:drinks: