Alternative to Coleman fuel?

[Markbo]

Just gathering up start-up equipment I got a double burner Coleman fuel stove for $10. With the price of Coleman fuel at $10/gallon equivalent that doesn't seem like a good deal to me. Is there a cheaper viable alternative to Coleman Fuel?

[uncle joe]

amoco preimum 93 octane works

[Bullshop]

The newer petrol type Colmans were dual fuel and labeled so. You are supposed to be able to use non leaded from the pump. In my experiance it does work but seems to shorten the life of the generator. I guess there are more impurities at the pump.
The generators have gotten quite expensive so its a toss up on which way to go.
I have decided to stay with the white gas. I watch the price year long at walmart and by a couple anytime its on sale. Right or wrong thats what I do.

[d garfield]

I have been using high test from the pump for 30yrs. and my stove works fine.

[littlejack]

Markbo:
I use the same two burner Coleman. I switched mine over to propane and never looked back. A 5 gallon tank will last a long time and you don't have to mess with filling the liquid fuel tank on the original stove.
Jack

[jcwit]

Coleman fuel is nothing more than naptha. Here in No. Indiana Amish country we can purchase naptha at the pump, last I checked it ran around $3.25 a gal. If you have a place to get naptha you're good to go.

[buck1]

My dad ran white gas/ then unleaded for years. The generator did finaly mess up. But it took years and the savings more than made up for the gen. I switched to propane...Buck

[RKJ]

I got a 1000W hot plate from Walgreens for $10.00, I used my Coleman propane (set up for the little tanks) and it proved too cost prohibitive for me. The cost to change over to a bigger tank also was more than I wanted to spend. I smelted about 20 lbs of range lead last night with it and it took about 2 hours from start to finish, but I was doing other things while it smelted so the time didn't bother me. It's not real fast but it gets the job done.

[10 ga]

Amoco 93, have used it for 30 + years and generator still working. Dittos for "Uncle Joe". Used to use the 2 burner for everything. Now smelt with propane but use the Coleman for pre heating scrap or ingosts before adding to pot. Got the stove at a yard sale in about "80" for $3. 10 ga

[cajun shooter]

The good days was when American White Gas was 100 Octane. It was the only fuel that my 425HP GTO would run on without engine ping. The 8 miles to the gallon was not that good though. Ha!! Ha!!

[Gee_Wizz01]

I tried unleaded pump gas and I had problems with my generators clogging. Also didn't like the fumes from the gas as it gave me a headache. Automobile unleaded gas has a lot of nasty additives. When my son was in Boy Scouts I found a hardware store that would order barrels of Naptha at a reasonable price and I have been using it ever since I used to buy a 50 gal barrel and split with the other guys in scouting. I bought a turkey fryer at a garage sale for $10 and I have now switched to propane. The turkey fryer makes quick work of smelting and the 20lb tank of propane lasts a long time. My Dad made me another smelter using the burner out of a gas water heater, and it really gets the job done. He welded me up a stand and mounted the burner to the stand.

G

[shaggist]

Look at the sticky above, 'this old pot' and click on 'plumber's furnace'. This is THE thing for melting lots of lead cheaply. Propane is EXPENSIVE, whereas regular, unleaded gas is comparatively cheap. Most of these were made by Clayton & Lambert, and can be found regularly on Ebay for not much money. Most will have to be refurbished, but that's an easy job. Just use common sense with this smelter-melter and you'll be fine.

[Elkins45]

Coleman fuel is nothing more than naptha. Here in No. Indiana Amish country we can purchase naptha at the pump, last I checked it ran around $3.25 a gal. If you have a place to get naptha you're good to go.

Really? That's amazing to me! We don't have it available here in northern Kentucky. I might have to take a couple of cans with me the next time I drive across Indiana.

Care to suggest a specific gas station where it's available?

I'm currently running a 50/50 mix of Coleman fuel and regular unleaded gas in my smelting stove.

[Elkins45]

The good days was when American White Gas was 100 Octane. It was the only fuel that my 425HP GTO would run on without engine ping. The 8 miles to the gallon was not that good though. Ha!! Ha!!

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I thought lower octane fuels actually burned hotter than higher octane ones? Isn't that why some engines need higher octane to avoid pre-ignition pinging, because it resists ignition except at higher temps?

Seems to me you would actually get more heat out of the low octane stuff if that's true. That's just something I read on USENET 10 years ago, so I could be completely wrong.

[felix]

Consider the octane number as the amount of deterrent to ignition. Has nothing to do with the amount of energy stored within. ... felix

[Elkins45]

Consider the octane number as the amount of deterrent to ignition. Has nothing to do with the amount of energy stored within. ... felix

Yeah, I can understand how one isn't related to the other. I also realize the 'octane rating' is only a measure of how the fuel behaves and that it doesn't imply how much actual octane is in the mix.

So is there, in fact, a difference in stored energy between the average 87 octane regular and the 93 octane premium? No sense paying the extra $0.20/gallon if there's no benefit. My gut feeling tells me there isn't, otherwise cars running higher octane fuels would get higher MPG (because of the extra energy) and I don't think that's the case.

[a.squibload]

How hard/expensive is it to convert the gas stoves to propane?

[Papa Jack]

I have been using an old coleman 425 two burner stove for several years. A month ago I bought two more coleman 425's at a garage sale for $3.00/pair...
I took em home cleaned em up and got em burning pretty good.

Just a heads up...Parts are getting harder to find, at least around here, seems more and more are going to propane.
I put all new generators ( $15.00 each from ACE hardware ) in each of my stoves, and cleaned and lubed the pump leathers . I used leather pump lube from a Graco industrial paint pump , but common Neats foot oil or shoe or boot oil should work .
Coleman gas here is around $8.59 gallon.
My pot holds about 12 pounds and it takes a while to melt with the stove valve almost wide open.
I have a propane burner I have made out of parts from an old weed burner, so when I have lots of smelting or big stuff to smelt I use that and the cast iron Dutch oven.
Good luck and shop around for discount camp stove fuel or if you can, get to a oil dealer or distributor and see what the cost is for a 5 gallon can of Naptha ? You may be able to get a deal that way. "P J"

[RP]

I use a mil cook stove heater, That is what they used in the ovens to supply the heat. I run reg gasoline in it when I was makeing shot and using gas to rinse the oil off the shot I used that gas to run my burner which I smelted down more lead for shot with. When I used gas that was very red from the transmission fluid it was harder to get going and I had to pressure the tank two or three time to keep it going. When I used new reg gas I only had to do it maybe one time if that. As far as the cost I could smelt several hundreds of lbs of WWs with 3 gals of gas so the cost of using this is way cheaper then any other fuel most people use. I have used reg gas in my stoves lanterns camping for years just unleaded big thing to me it how much easier it is to have a mistake turn bad with say spilled gas.

[felix]

Elkins, that is a yes and no answer. It depends on what is used to augment the raw gasoline, and that depends on application for the most part: racing engine, passenger car, airplane, etc. The retail dealer calls up what he wants from the distributor who then does the mixing according to royalty requirements. For example, a Shell station contract says so many gallons per month must be sold out of that particular location with Shell additives. The remaining quantity per month can be additives which are "on-sale" that month. State Law usually requires that octane it says on the pump, and that would be the only limitation.

The engine is a heat pump, purely and simply. What propels the motor is the expansion of air, and the air expands from the heat delivered by the gasoline. Therefore, it is more air that means more torque, and that air must be heated in the correct amount of time. The engine could very well blow up with a gasoline that produces heat at the wrong time, and is just like using powders which are too fast for the torque demanded (velocity) in guns. We must slow the burn rate down, and/or change the ignition characteristics by mechanical means (valve and spark timing).

Gasoline comes through the pipeline in two flavors only; alcohol ready, and no alcohol allowed. It is the additives that move the gasoline up from the nominal 85-86 octane.

... felix

[uncle joe]

Coleman fuel/white gas is Low Octane stuff. Would regular suffice??

I would not try it,the amoco premium used to be without a lot of the additives that are in regular gas. it was clear, if you fill up a gas can with regular and look in it it's green.
I grew up with my folks going camping all the time, we didn't have many stores around here that sold camping stuff so we made our own. They didn't sell coleman fuel locally either and this was bwm (before wal mart) but we did have an amoco station which is where we got the fuel for the stove and lantern.

[Eutectic]

Octane rating is basically an "anti-knock" value for the gasoline. It is not a heat or performance number on its own merit. 'Premium' is not hotter fuel.... It is thought of as such as it can increase performance in certain engines by its anti-knock characteristics. Most gasoline engines fire each cylinder at some degree before top dead center is reached to gain the most power produced during the power stroke. "Knock" or "pinging" is fuel detonation as the piston almost gets to the top and in affect fires too soon trying to push the piston backwards against the normal rotational direction! This is power robbing and rough on the engine longevity wise. So..... the higher compression, highly tuned performance engine develops more horsepower from premium because of resistance to "knock".... not hotter fuel.

Naphtha is a general term that can maybe be several different things or products. While white gas is a naphtha, it isn't the only one. #2 diesel fuel and Jet "A" are both mid-distillates but they aren't the same product!

White gasoline ran 75 to 80 road octane when I was in the business. Unleaded gasoline can be refined to about 100 road octane but you will never see it sold to my knowledge in that purity. It is strictly a blending enhancer for the most part. Unleaded or No lead gasoline is exactly that.... no lead compounds added for anti-knock improvement. They don't say that other metallic additives are not added to improve octane.... So using premium unleaded in a Coleman stove is like shooting yourself in the foot. The additives used in motor fuel are probably the detriment to the Coleman stove's design and premium will have the most metallic additives...

Eutectic

[mold maker]

When the generator clogs up from improper fuel, replace it, or take it apart and clean the carbon off the internal parts and carefully reassemble it for another, generator life time of use. I keep several cleaned on hand just in case.
Note there are several sizes that aren't interchangeable.

[jcwit]

Naphtha is a general term that can maybe be several different things or products. While white gas is a naphtha, it isn't the only one. #2 diesel fuel and Jet "A" are both mid-distillates but they aren't the same product!


You're correct in that they aren't the same product for sure. Diesel fuel #2 and jet Fuel are much closer to kerosene and are a far cry from Naptha. Do a google search for Naptha and you'll find:


Naphtha is used primarily as feedstock for producing high octane gasoline (via the catalytic reforming process). It is also used in the petrochemical industry for producing olefins in steam crackers and in the chemical industry for solvent (cleaning) applications. Common products made with it include lighter fluid, fuel for camp stoves, and some cleaning solvents.



no mention of jet fuel or diesel fuel. And as I stated earlier we can buy NAPTHA or so it says on the pump or as we normally call it White gas at the pump at our local gas station.

[Eutectic]

jcwit,

Re-read what I wrote. In no way was I relating #2 diesel or Jet "A" as a naphtha cut!

Maybe I should explain cut..... "Cut" is refinery talk where a certain range are pulled 'off' or removed by fractionation as they condense. Naphtha type cuts are in one range. Mid-Distillates are another group of 'heavier' hydrocarbons which include diesel and jet fuel in their range. Nothing to do with the naphtha range. I only used this comparison as many think naphtha is a specific product.... But most would get very nervous if their jet plane they were flying on was being fueled with Diesel #2!

Eutectic

[jcwit]

jcwit,

Re-read what I wrote. In no way was I relating #2 diesel or Jet "A" as a naphtha cut!

Maybe I should explain cut..... "Cut" is refinery talk where a certain range are pulled 'off' or removed by fractionation as they condense. Naphtha type cuts are in one range. Mid-Distillates are another group of 'heavier' hydrocarbons which include diesel and jet fuel in their range. Nothing to do with the naphtha range. I only used this comparison as many think naphtha is a specific product.... But most would get very nervous if their jet plane they were flying on was being fueled with Diesel #2!

Eutectic



Misunderstanding, sorry!

[shaune509]

vmp naptha[sp] 1gal, 5gal @ auto/industrial paint stores, cheaper than walmart coleman fuel

[leadchunker]

I been using regular unleaded for approx 30 years in my 2 burner, 3 burner, and 2 lanterns. All Coleman products. Never had an issue.

[leadchunker]

My dad has been using unleaded and Amoco white gas since the late 60s. No problems that I know of.

[Markbo]

Well since we have gotten off topic 3 or 4 times, just to reiterate - I use a turkey fryer and propane to smelt in a cut down 5 gallon propane tank. The Coleman 452 2 burner stove is strictly to melt small quantities of ingots to ladel cast.

I have no idea what "White gas" is or where to get it, but I will cut my one can of Coleman fuel with regular unleaded gasoline and try that. If it doesn't work well I can search out naptha at an auto paint store and see if that works any better.

Since Kerosene has aproximately 40% more BTU's per gallon that regular unleaded (depending on ethanol mix) is kerosene a viable alternative?

[DanLee]

So is there, in fact, a difference in stored energy between the average 87 octane regular and the 93 octane premium?

No difference in energy output. Octane is a measure of how much an air/fuel mixture can be compressed in an engine's cylinder before it detonates without spark. Gasoline stoves, such as Colemans, don't compress the air/fuel mixture in order to burn it, so the octane-enhancing additives are wasted money. That said, Coleman fuel does have additives (stabilizers) that help prevent varnish deposits and it lasts a lot longer on that count than most white gasoline. It's good until it's gone.

Dan

[jcwit]

That said, Coleman fuel does have additives (stabilizers) that help prevent varnish deposits and it lasts a lot longer on that count than most white gasoline. It's good until it's gone.



Could be it contains the above additivies. However I do know for a fact that the Amish in this area use Naptha either from the pump in the local towns or from the local fuel truck. I you order it from the distributor you ask for Naptha. Its used for lanterns, lamps, stoves and heaters. The general name also used is "white gas". Storage is normally outside in a 55 gal. drum laying on its side with a spigot. This set up is seen at mostly every home usually 3 barrels, 1 for white gas, 1 for kerosene, and lastely 1 for reg. gas for use in gas engines.

Never heard of any problems with generators or having to replace them often.

BTW this is from the 2nd largest Amish settlement in the U.S. and the largest in Indiana. Topeka, Shipshewana, Middlebury, Lagrange, Millersburg area.

[tomf52]

I have a two burner Coleman stove I bought when I was 18 years old. I am now 64 and that stove has run on nothing but unleaded regular gasoline all it's life . Still has the original generator in it and that part has never been cleaned or otherwise touched. Many hours of use on that stove between it's original purpose, camping, and melting lead.

[JonB_in_Glencoe]

In MN nearly all auto Gasoline is 10% ethanol this was Law Mandated, the exception is High octane gas at a very few stations have "non-oxygenated" ( read no ethanol) for use in small engines and antique cars. I have used both in my Coleman stoves...doesn't seem to matter except that gas with 10% ethanol has a much shorter shelf life, it absorbs water from the air and will rust your steel tank. Now I only use the "non-oxygenated" in my coleman stoves. Luckily I can find used coleman stoves, quite frequently, at garage sales for $5 or $10 each. I use them for canning outside, smelting lead, and melting candle wax for firestarters for woodstoves. the intense heat of running them for several hours straight takes it's toll on the grate and frame/body, typically I have more generators as good working spare parts because of that. Right now I have about 6 stoves in backup, ready to go into use if the current one I am using kraps out.
Jon

[rbuck351]

Been using regular unleaded gas in my three burner coleman and lanterns for about 30 years and have yet to replace a generator or even clean one. I also have been using the gas with alcohol added as thats all we can get here. It doesn't seem to give any trouble either. Maybe I just don't worry about stuff enough.???

[Markbo]

I cut my stove/lantern fuel 50/50 with regular grade gasoline i bought for my yard equipment and it is working great. I imagine whenever I use that up I will just use gasoline. The temperature is certainly hot enough so there is enough energy in this mix.

Thanks everyone for your input
Mark

[firefly1957]

Probably do not need to post as same for a lot of you. I use the gas I keep for my lawn equipment which is unleaded regular gas with Marvels Mystery oil and fuel stabilizer added it will burn a little rich and I get lampblack buildup but in over twenty years no harm to stove and gas is now ten percent ethanol from pump.

[jcwit]

I use a single burner dual fuel Coleman stove and use Naptha and/or reg. gasolene in it. It lasted approx 5 years before the generator clogged up. Nope didn't get 20 or 30 years out of it, but then it smelted 6 to 8 tons of lead in that period of time let alone how many bullets it casted.

How long a stove lasts is of no consequence, how much it it is used is.